A check of your moral fiber

First of all I need to give props to the men and women who run this site and make it "destination internet" for myself and so many others. Second I'd like to thank those that add new posts for me (and all of you) to read and ponder on just what the heck is going on in the world. I sincerely appreciate the time you folks put into your posts simply because I like to compare my thoughts to others that I see respond to your post. Typically I'm not the type to post but here we go...

Today I was browsing through responses to a thread about Chinese ships harassing a U.S. surveillance vessel. There were quite a few replies and most of them were entertaining at the least and informative at the best. BUT...I saw in the replies something I have been noticing more and more of since the United States has run into a real financial mess. (I'm sure we can't use names of members while pointing out the moral ineptness of these people so I will just say "you know who you are and that I am talking about you specifically".) I see more and more people taking shots at the American people because we are down right now.

I did a little wandering around the site and came across a few ground rules the site administators came up with. I see these rules being broken by some users from time to time. These are the rules I speak of...

AboveTopSecret is renowned for...WHILE INSISTING ON POLITE CIVILITY AND RESPECTFUL DECORUM.

We refuse to allow INSULTS and mayhem...

We refuse to allow...HATE SPEECH.

We promote...as long as MANNERS are maintained.

(Just shortened up the sentences to allow more ranting on my part)

I would be the first person to congratulate my neighbor if he won the lotterybut some on this site would rather prance around with a big check and say "hey pal you borrowed a cup of sugar two weeks ago and I want it repaid right now" This is the sum of a satement by a user who said "call me when you americans can pay your trillion dollar debt".

Another shot at America was also posted during this thread that claims we are "whores for Isreal" that we would "do the world a favor" by becoming bankrupt. Now where I come from that is not CIVILITY, it is in fact a little INSULTING and sure as hell is not RESPECTFUL. Would you find it to the worlds' benefit that me and my family were on the street begging for food? I guess it would certainly end all humanity's problems if I sent my wife and daughter out on the street to make some money while me and my son went and robbed our neighbors' homes just so we could eat for one more day? You sir/madam/it have no moral fiber and you disgust me by lumping Americans into one group.

Since I am running out of space I have to end my rant even though I have so many more examples of people who need to check their morals.

Should I believe that because of 9/11 I should hate Muslims? Of course not. That is against my value system that individuals are just that, individual. Should I hate the Japanese because of Pearl Harbor? No, I can not imagine what went on in the minds of a FEW men not a society as a whole. That would display weak morality if I unilaterally hated. Would hating any group for the weakness or the stupidity of a select few of that group change the past or the present? No it won't. Hating Americans, and taking shots at the them on a forum won't increase your moral fiber and diplays your WEAKNESS.

I hope this meandering and rambling post gets my message across. (4000 words isn't much when you try and put a couple hours of thought into one post) It is unfortunate that some people would like to see the downfall of their neighbor, and though your government and mine may not see eye to eye, why couldn't we just be civil and respectful to one another, pop open a cold one and be ourselves as opposed to mindless drones spouting political HATE SPEECH? Do you have moral fiber? Individual thought? Or do you hate Americans because it is fasionable? Morality doesn't allow for hate.

Actually America may indeed do the world a huge favor by going belly up.

The way I see is there are people here and all over the world that do little but complain. People that are ungrateful for eating a bologna sandwich while some eat steak and once thing about those that have nothing to eat today. People that think they are held back by the JP Morgans of the world.

As the world's economy crashes around them they would sit in their house until a looter came and complain "What? I have sat here for two weeks without food or power and now you are just going to come along and shoot me for my can opener?"

Myself I would be happy with a bologna sandwich right about now. Sure, I have food enough for now. But I have been laid off since January. I apply for jobs, just have had no offers as of yet. I have a solid lead and am waiting on their hiring process. I have no idea what it pays but I will take it. And will keep putting in for better jobs while working.

I have had a problem with unemployment kicking in. So I have had to stretch $500 for nearly two months now. I should be getting a check for all the back money owed this week. That will be twice what I have made it on so far, so I will be happy.

In other words, I am down but not out. Just yesterday an old friend sent me an email that a mutual friend of ours had died of cancer. I hadn't seen her or even really thought of her in nearly 20 years. In my reply I realized just how much of an influence she had on my younger days. And I am considering writing a thread about that.

reply to post by DaddioOfTruth


A thought-provoking post.

ATS seems to go through periods of increased baiting/ranting/flaming, followed by a barrage of 'get a grip'-type threads/posts, and these in turn either help things calm down or induce the management to revise the Ts&Cs. (The clearest examples I've seen were the US 2008 election & a period of overheated religion-based discussions a little before that.)

However it's worth noting that these fluctuations may well just be a genuine reflection of how strongly people feel about the issues of the 'day', and as such the peaks and troughs may actually serve a purpose.

The case in point relates to the geopolitical status of the US. To which I feel I must say:

The American dream is OVER.

Does that sound inflammatory? It is not intended that way. It's just a reality check.

And that, I believe, is what some of the posts you have in mind have as their basis. What may sound like perverted gloating may well just be the poster saying: I know you aren't going to want to hear it, but I'm going to put it bluntly, thereby forcing you to notice.

Shock and awe.

But not necessarily uncivil, ill-mannered, insults or hate-speech.

On a board like this you really have to be prepared for people to say things that irk you, and try to think the best of them nevertheless. There may be more to what has been said than meets the eye.

Those that break the Ts&Cs get kicked in the points. Summary justice is meted out pretty swiftly on occasion, it also has to be said.

And anyone who is prejudiced enough to harbor hatred for a particular nation will more than likely be challenged in the midst of a discussion, and thereby exposed as a bigot.

ATS is actually about as polite, civil and respectful as it gets on the 'net.

Any more so - and it'd be boring.

(So quit ranting, bozo...)

A good post from the other point of view.

While I try my best to not judge everyone (I'm not perfect), I can't help but think that it is the United States' own doing that got them into this mess.

Is it the average American's fault for being blissfully ignorant? Not really. The only guilt the American people have is not seeking the truth when it is in front of them; but almost everyone in western society is guilty of that.

The blame lies with the bankers and Wall Street brokers who knowingly ripped off their country, then leach off taxpayers for a bailout to continue their scam.

The blame can also be laid on a compliant and knowing government who allows it to happen and helps make the people blissfully ignorant.

So maybe in that sense, the "anti-American" people here on ATS are simply anti-American policies and attitudes, and not against American people. I know that's how I am, at least. Peace!

Wow, i was in that thread saying america deserves to be pushed out of eastern waters, etc -Was i one of the people who need to check their moral compass? hehe i hope so.

You're new, hello and welcome, also let me point your attention to the top left hand corner of the screen - under the logo are two very important words DENY IGNORANCE - The very point of this site is to debate the facts of the matter without letting ego, ignorance or bias get in the way. I myself a skeptic have joined in and discussed many things, i find many of the spiritualist ideas very offensive (psudo-science holding back progress an truth) but i would never [rarely] flame someone for posting their opinion that maybe 'Ghosts did it' or 'ET's are to blame' i would debate the points as carefully and politely as possible and try to show my opinion or i would ignore their inane ramblings.

So, as a British Citizen you don't think i have a right to say bad things about America? haha ok nice opinion, now move along. Your fat bloated empire of greed has tenticles spanning the globe dipping into all the pies, your egotistic and wasteful society is casing untold suffering all over the world -in fact, the consumer society you love so much is looking likely to end the world (for us anyway via co2) -but you can't even turn away from American Gladiators long enough to see it, you would rather pretend it isn't happening -'our suv is FINE just the gub'ment trying to tax us more and steal all the many things we deserve for doing basically nothing'. I bet you're thinking, but england is just as bad -yep. I hope england fails too, i want the queen to know what it's like to drink ditch water.

A little harsh? Ha, yeah well so is the Gold mining industry, the Diamond mining industry, the oil mining industry, the world bank, the imf, the 'free market', coca cola killing union heads, nike employing starving children to sew footballs for fifty cents a day, united fruit performing a coup and enslaving an entire nation just to corner the banana market, glaxo dumping out of date meds on African nations so they have to pay to dispose of them, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nausium.

You might like to pretend your shinny little utopia is doing nothing but good in the world, fighting 'TERRORISM' and 'EVILDOERS' and yes it might hurt your feelings when people tell you some of the bad things your evil empire has done, no we won't stop.

Awww BoooHooooHoooo it's not ALL americans who are doing this, yeah right, those that aren't part of the system are being screwed by it so hard nothing could make it worse, everyone else is more than happy to go along for the ride - you never wanted justice before, you only wanted to be the winners -'AMERICA THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!! Oh those poor other places not as good as us, still they get what they deserve -hard work = rewards....' HAHAHAHA Well, this time china did the hard work while you sat around shoving mcdonalds into your hugely inflated guts.

If it all comes falling down then yes i'll suffer, yes my life will be made much worse - i know that i have been living in an artificially created wealth bubble, i can accept that if the world is to be fair my standard of living (currently one of the highest in the world) needs to come down, i can accept that. It's sad that we have to pay the price of our systems collapse, buts it's fair -we didn't fight in any wars or do anything heroic to get where we are (i mean real wars not immoral smash and grab raids) we were born luckier than almost any other time or place on earth, modern medicine, computers, etc, etc are all available to us precisely because the system is unfairly stacked, we must accept this and gracefully slide to a more manageable level.

maybe it you who needs to give that moral compass a shake?

Though I understand your anger and your outrage I have to ponder what response if any you ever made when someone said the same things but let us exchange the word American for an ethnic group.

If they had used the "n" work the "S" word, the "K" work or the "C" word; for example.

Would you feel as much outrage? Would you stand against it?

Hate always starts somewhere and it is always reactionary and irrational.

Even though I can understand people hating a person for wronging them in some way I can not wrap my head around how they can hate everyone that just happens to be a member of that group if that group is different from their own.

Americans have placed themselves on a pedestal and have set standards by which they have “demanded” that all other countries yield.

Some Americans travel as missionaries into villages and attempt to force their religion and their God onto people that have beliefs and Gods that were in existence long before the God of the American missionaries and their religion ever came off the presses.

I am not surprised that so many are happy to see us tumble.

I am surprised that so few of them gloat.

I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot us Americans would not be as “civil” or as restrained.

reply to post by DaddioOfTruth


Rules??
If America followed the rules then you would not be in Iraq.
Ats is ats,there are many different people with many different opinions.
To call people who badmouth America as immoral is ignorant to say the least.

reply to post by DaddioOfTruth

oh no, you're not feeling a little resentment from non-americans are you, you poor thing, gee, i hope you're not too upset. ahhh, the evil, immoral scum, how dare they critise poor little america.

non-americans didn't vote for bush jnr, they didn't vote for clinton, they didn't vote for bush snr and they didn't vote for reagan. that didn't matter, they still have to deal with the fact that in the global economy, that we all helped build and which has benifitted america above all, they are suffering for the lack of over sight in the american banking system. those presidents and all their contemporariness in american politics screwed the world economy into a tight wad, wiped their backsides with it and flushed it down the toilet.

so yeah, you stick that on top of the war-mongering attitude, the destruction of the UN, the increased threat of terrorist attacks, the destruction of international justice systems and the constant "america, yeah, woo hoo, we're number one, go team " crap we've been subjected to for the past eight+ years and the slight resentment you are feeling might even seem to resemble a little more respect than you people are due.

reply to post by DaddioOfTruth


Well spoken...
While I have encountered a few flare ups on ATS, they have been mild.

As with any discussion anywhere...the old saying...

~Dont talk about politics and religion~

Funny how we always do. Even in my very close knit kindred spirit family the two things we always talk about are politics and religion....Thanksgiving and Christmas! And almost always, someone ends up getting in "debate" mode. Alas, we have come to embrace it and cherish it even though emotions can get stirred up.

Why? Because if we can not speak our mind, and bare our heart, then what are we?

So, with that said, I would agree that manners and decorum are pretty much enforced here on this forum. I would not be here if they weren't.

Politeness is the grease in the machine of modern society.

Thanks for the reminders!

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Korea and China? k & c - hehe either that or some people are some nasty things about the female reproductive system!

very good point, bashing Russia and China is a national past time, diss america and god forbid!

Obviously my point wasn't made well at all. But I can see another point being made by my "anti-anti-american" speech, which wasn't the point in the first place. I can see that my post has touched a nerve amongst many haters out there that are looking for another reason to bash America, not all the replies but a good portion.

I have never been one to tell somebody that they can't have an opinion about how we do things, what I'm saying is that ATS has some rules about how it should be done on this site, which I posted in my original. The point I was trying to make was that alot of people were crossing the line by lumping hard working, conscientious, and law abiding Americans into a group of criminal politicians and bankers.

I could go on to attack many from other nations and say that if it weren't for this country of mine alot of you might be speaking a different language then you do now. But that argument has been done to death and the standard answer that my grandfather would hear is this "how many times are you going to hold that over our heads?" or "that was so many years ago, get over yourself", which I could easily agree with. Except for the fact that it shows that we are basically a good people and it has become fasionable to direct hate at us for whatever reason although I personally nor anybody that I am close to would ever return the favor to your or any other nation. Point being that although there are rotten a$$holes in this country I will not sit by and have hate speech (which is against the ATS rulebook) directed at those of us that are NOT rotten a$$holes. Also that there are criminal losers in other countries exploiting underprivileged people around the world, but you never hear about them...of course only the U.S. would do that. I might also remind the readers of the East India Co., the crusades, feudalism,Napolean,Hitler, or any other dark secrets from the past but it wouldn't help anybody to be reminded of how once great nations went through dark periods but emerged to be great once again. Not to mention that the people are, for the most part, great too.

I mentioned that it would be improper and immoral for me to hate Muslims for the acts of a few. But someone replied to my post and said that Americans should not be excused for being blissfully ignorant of the machinations of our leaders and bankers. By this logic I would be allowed to hate ALL Muslims because they had no right to be ignorant of what a few retards were doing in the name of their religion. THIS is a test of my moral fiber, I can differentiate between crazy f&*^s and people who would like to live in peace. I think I passed my test.

My question is can you take off your all-encompassing goggles and see that we aren't all the same, and some of us do work toward positive change while at the same time protecting what is ours? Do we have to be considered "whores for Isreal" because we don't abandon our friends? That it doesn't benefit one person in the world if I get laid off from work (which you might be surprised actually benefits the world and doesn't include exploitation of third world nations)? Generalizations are not the way to go, and I pray that if ever I post a thoughtless remark about another person or group that someone out there would posilutely bitch-slap me silly.

After proof reading this it seems like I am being unduly harsh to some responses to my original thread and that I haven't set a good example for what I am trying to tell you about MOST Americans but I believe I made my point, we aren't all bad just like "you" aren't all bad. If you still hate me or those that are like me after I tried my damndest to clear up what I meant then I guess there is no help for any of us.