Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

reply to post by djvexd


I'm not saying he was faking it. I'm saying it doesn't matter if he's sane or not, he should be executed purely due to the danger he poses to the public, and the taxpayer should not be on the hook for the tremendous cost of keeping him incarcerated for the rest of his life. Especially when there are thousands and thousands of good, law abiding citizens who will never enjoy the standard of living his incarceration will provide him with.

Originally posted by Techsnow
I KNEW IT! I called it when it happened. He was given PCP so yes he was mentally ill at the time it happened. Don't do PCP kids!

Link please, to the use of PCP ? That was not reported in the link/story provided by the original poster nor in this stateside story in today's news:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

I'm sorry I have to agree to disagree with your use of the death penalty. Yes he poses a threat. Yes he is a tax burden. But can you seriously sit there and look someone in the eye and tell them that they NEED to die because of a mental defect and we can't trust them ?

Originally posted by djvexd
I'm sorry I have to agree to disagree with your use of the death penalty. Yes he poses a threat. Yes he is a tax burden. But can you seriously sit there and look someone in the eye and tell them that they NEED to die because of a mental defect and we can't trust them ?

Yes, yes I can. I would gladly do it in this case.

The guy, whether consciously or not, decided to take a life, he forfieted all his rights. If he has the capacity to kill once, he has the capacity to kill again. This is a mental defect like you say. A defect cannot be fixed. It implies he is wired wrong, and I agree with that. Short of lobotomy, what other options are there?

Originally posted by djvexd
I'm sorry I have to agree to disagree with your use of the death penalty. Yes he poses a threat. Yes he is a tax burden. But can you seriously sit there and look someone in the eye and tell them that they NEED to die because of a mental defect and we can't trust them ?

In this particular case, I'd even pull the trigger myself.

I was all over this when it first happened.

The story was, the victim and the killer met on the trip. The victim reported to his friend that him and some of the passengers were do ecstasy and were having a great time.

Its my speculation that it wasn't just ecstasy they were doing but it was also a bit of pcp. But it may have just been ecstasy, I can't say for sure. Either way you have the guy totally triped out on drugs and went nuts.

reply to post by Rook1545


You are absolutley right and he cannot be fixed. Medicated maybe. Yes he took a life but you assume he DECIDED. That is the point I'm trying to make. Alot of seriously disturbed people don't have the ability to choose between right and wrong , nor whether or not they they laugh , talk or strike out. That is the nature of mental illness. As you said they are not wired correctly. A case could be made for euthanasia for those detected butI can tell you I don't want to be that person. We judge mentally ill people by OUR standards. This is a fallacy and wrong. This person , as far as we know, didn't induce his illness, it went untreated and undiagnosed until this tragdedy happened. How many of our people should we abort or kill? So why not go ahead and kill anyone who is a possible threat, or maybe could wind up costing the taxpayers? Muscular Dystrophy comes to mind? But hen again we wouldn't have one of our generations greatest minds(Hawking).Edit* I had'nt heard that they were on PCP and X. Can we confirm?

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

Here's there original story link where it was speculated that the guy was on drugs, read this before you start debating if the guy is mental or not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I believe that Li is part of the M Kultra MC program and that this sentence reflects the corruption at all levels. All these things are happening to increase security and insure an errosion or our rights.

Then Rook I digress and I wholeheartedly agree with your view. As this particular thread was written it was inferred that this person was not of stable mind by default.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

Originally posted by Rook1545
The guy, whether consciously or not, decided to take a life, he forfieted all his rights.

Do you see the oxy moron in that statement? If he wasn't conscious, how could he "decide"? He'll be locked up for good, in a mental institute. THAT'S where he belongs. It seems some here are looking for retribution, that's not justice. The guy's a freak and will be treated as such.

@ Unit- it costs just under $300/day to house an inmate. Probably more for a mental patient.

Originally posted by djvexd
reply to post by Rook1545

 

You are absolutley right and he cannot be fixed. Medicated maybe. Yes he took a life but you assume he DECIDED. That is the point I'm trying to make. Alot of seriously disturbed people don't have the ability to choose between right and wrong , nor whether or not they they laugh , talk or strike out. That is the nature of mental illness. As you said they are not wired correctly. A case could be made for euthanasia for those detected butI can tell you I don't want to be that person. We judge mentally ill people by OUR standards. This is a fallacy and wrong. This person , as far as we know, didn't induce his illness, it went untreated and undiagnosed until this tragdedy happened. How many of our people should we abort or kill? So why not go ahead and kill anyone who is a possible threat, or maybe could wind up costing the taxpayers? Muscular Dystrophy comes to mind? But hen again we wouldn't have one of our generations greatest minds(Hawking).Edit* I had'nt heard that they were on PCP and X. Can we confirm?

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

I am not saying he did induce his illness. What I am saying is that having this person alive, does not make our society any safer.

For me it is not about him having a mental problem, it is about him having a mental problem that causes violent outbursts leading to the death of another person. I can't remember the last time someone with MD killed someone because of their condition.

It is not about someone being a POSSIBLE threat. This man proved that he is no longer a possible threat, but a very real threat. I think that a psych eval should be done on him. Find out his deal. Then deal with it. Although by my books, there is very very little margin to show that he can be brought back into society normally. What is the point of spending a ton of taxpayer money on a guy that will never be a contributing member of society.

reply to post by Rook1545


But there again ...I am going to infer that your view is that we should put down those that exhibit behavior not conducive to the public betterment. Am I correct or am I off base? Those are very dangerous thoughts that lead to dangerous things.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by djvexd]

Originally posted by Techsnow
Here's there original story link where it was speculated that the guy was on drugs, read this before you start debating if the guy is mental or not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, that's all speculation. I don't consider what someone says on mySpace or someone's opinion ATS to be a news source or a helpful link.

Originally posted by intrepid
@ Unit- it costs just under $300/day to house an inmate. Probably more for a mental patient.

Thanks for that info Intrepid.

While I tend to think they'll have this guy on $300 worth of meds a day alone, even if it did only cost $300 a day for this guy, it's still $109,500.00 a year.

Does anyone participating in this thread make that kind of money? It's just so illogical, on so many levels. To me at least, it's not about retribution. Although I'm sure the family of the victim feels different. It's about sensibly dealing with danger.

If I'm a rancher, and a wolf continuously steals my live stock, sooner or later my family is going to starve to death. Do I catch the wolf, imprison him and feed? Now I've got to feed him more than he was steeling, because he can't hunt his natural prey either (just as it doesn't cost $109,500/year to keep yourself fed, clothed and sheltered). Then he gets sick, and I've got to take him to the vet. what happens 10 years from now when a new neighbor moves close by, and is convinced the wolf is now a vegetarian, and sets him free? Now I don't sleep, because I'm in constant fear he'll return and steel my food.

After considering the above for less time than it takes to chamber a round, I shoot him instead. My entire family remains well fed, and I never have to worry about that wolf again.

Again, to be entitled to human rights, you have to behave like a human being. Whether you choose to behave like an animal, or do it because you have bad wiring is irrelevant. The wolf didn't steel my food because he wanted me to starve, he did it because he was hungry. The resulting outcome is, well, too bad for him.

[edit on 3/5/2009 by Unit541]

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey

Originally posted by Techsnow
Here's there original story link where it was speculated that the guy was on drugs, read this before you start debating if the guy is mental or not.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, that's all speculation. I don't consider what someone says on mySpace or someone's opinion ATS to be a news source or a helpful link.

I'm not sure what you're saying but if you read that ATS link you would have noticed that it's not speculation that the victim had told his friend him and others on the bus were taking ecstasy. That was reported in the news article from the ATS link.

This was reported in the original CNN news article (in the ATS link I posted).
That article isn't up anymore but it said this:

Alexandra Storey, Mr. McLean’s ex-girlfriend, said he sent her dozens of texts as the Greyhound he was riding made its way east to Winnipeg from Edmonton Wednesday night. The 22-year-old Winnipegger was coming home after seven weeks working on a carnival tour of Western Canada. He told her some of the other passengers were taking ecstasy, a party drug with stimulant properties, and that he was counting down the hours by sending a new text at every town he passed.

I'm not even anti-drug, but it was obvious to me that the guy was probably on something when I started to look into it. Reason being, after he was arrested, Li claimed he didn't remember anything that had happened. Also, there have been reports of people doing similar things while on PCP, for example the rapper that ate his girlfriend while on PCP.

Originally posted by Unit541
Again, to be entitled to human rights, you have to behave like a human being. Whether you choose to behave like an animal, or do it because you have bad wiring is irrelevant.

I have to disagree. This is a sick person. Was it his fault? The institution will tell. There are many reasons why this guy was bent. maybe Fetal Alcohol Syndrom(FAS):

The main effect of FAS is permanent central nervous system damage, especially to the brain. Developing brain cells and structures are underdeveloped or malformed by prenatal alcohol exposure, often creating an array of primary cognitive and functional disabilities (including poor memory, attention deficits, impulsive behavior, and poor cause-effect reasoning) as well as secondary disabilities (for example, mental health problems, and drug addiction).

en.wikipedia.org...

Is that the fault of the individual? No. Do you sentence someone for the actions of another? Whether or not this was animalistic behavior, this is still a human being.

Don't get me wrong, I see REAL convicts every day, I also see sick, twisted people. They don't belong in jail, sometimes it's really pathetic, they need to be in a different institution. One that can treat them, hopefully.

reply to post by Unit541

Once again you are assuming that people with mental defects CHOOSE to behave like animals. They don't. They don't conciously make the effort to say "F it I'm gonna go kill someone today." But I am assuming you are not a rancher so you are just relating what you would do IF. There are predators out there. They deserve to be shot as you are advocating. But people that are insane and have NO control over thier actions ( truly insane)don't deserve that. I am glad you have all of your faculties in order but there are people that don't and routinely go undiagnosed. Given PharmaSkripts to make them happy, but make no attempt to address the REAL problem.

Originally posted by mystiq
I believe that Li is part of the M Kultra MC program and that this sentence reflects the corruption at all levels. All these things are happening to increase security and insure an errosion or our rights.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. I wonder if this guy wasn't being dosed with a prozac-type drug, as he was reportedly depressed beforehand. Anyway didn't the cops start searching bus passengers in Canada right after this happened? That is always the acid test for a mind-control op.


Here are some details on a similar case from a couple of years ago:
3-2-05
Jason Clinard, 14, Stewart County High School, Cumberland City, TN
He shot his school bus driver six times, killing her as she stopped to pick him up.
--The mother of the accused said she believes her son was not aware of his actions on the day..
--the teen told staff at Middle Tennessee Mental Health Institute that he had been "hearing voices for about five years, which instructed Jason to harm others and himself"
--The boy told the psychiatrist, "it's like somebody else controlling my body."
--He said that the last thing he remembered was watching television that morning. ... Jason said that the next thing he remembered was after the alleged offense. He said he was heading into the woods when his mother called him on his cell phone... at that time he "woke up" in the woods..." He said he was surprised to learn he had shot somebody.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by starviego]