Evolution, It's only a theory

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Originally posted by jfj123
Originally posted by Aermacchi

And what do you suppose YOU have done in these threads besides accuse people of trolling? Just what do you suppose YOUR posts are?

The alternative?


Pffft

Actually I've posted plenty of factual data

How about you?

Are you saying you've went and researched the data that we've provided to you?

No you haven't.

If we're guilty of it, you're just as guilty.

I bet I know more about evolution than you know about creationism.

If you've posted the info here, I've read it. If you've posted a link, I probably haven't bothered looking at it-I'm not going to lie. There are reasons why I don't like it when people post links and say, "go read".

1. The discussion is on this thread and not on that link.
2. 9 times out of 10 the link isn't what the person said it was and I've just wasted my time.
3. If the person can't be bothered to post a summary of what is on the link to help other posters, I won't be bothered to go to that link to help the person posting the link. Give and take for fairness you know

[edit on 5-3-2009 by jfj123]

Well if we start posting pages of data are you gonna read it? Would we read yours? Probably not.

Everyone, creationists and evolutionists alike on this thread have been pretty good about summarizing their outside sources i think.

I haven't seen ANY of these links on either side be false.

The links are there for you to look at if you want to delve deeper into study.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by B.A.C.
Originally posted by jfj123
Originally posted by Aermacchi

And what do you suppose YOU have done in these threads besides accuse people of trolling? Just what do you suppose YOUR posts are?

The alternative?


Pffft

Actually I've posted plenty of factual data

How about you?

Are you saying you've went and researched the data that we've provided to you?

No you haven't.

If we're guilty of it, you're just as guilty.

I bet I know more about evolution than you know about creationism.

If you've posted the info here, I've read it. If you've posted a link, I probably haven't bothered looking at it-I'm not going to lie. There are reasons why I don't like it when people post links and say, "go read".

1. The discussion is on this thread and not on that link.
2. 9 times out of 10 the link isn't what the person said it was and I've just wasted my time.
3. If the person can't be bothered to post a summary of what is on the link to help other posters, I won't be bothered to go to that link to help the person posting the link. Give and take for fairness you know

[edit on 5-3-2009 by jfj123]

Well I am like that in many ways also, you seem to have a lot of experience in debates like this and is why some times we get tired of the same tired arguments. By the way that bit about the ark, I should be more specific that I believe SOME not all Dinosaurs were on the ark. The word dinosaurs covers a lot of species .

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Originally posted by jfj123

It's not sciences job to debunk your faith only to further science. We have no interest in your faith.

Hey YOU keep bringing it up I didn't. If you read my posts I keep having to ask what religion has to do with this

Well it's religious people who, for the most part, are claiming evolution doesn't exist because it interferes with their religious beliefs.

What delusions? Please be specific and be specific as to why they are delusions.

The delusion you have the we think Science and Religion are the same for one

I have NEVER said that.
Science requires facts.
Religion requires faith.
They are 2 completely different things.
I have NEVER, at any point, suggested otherwise.

Again, I don't care about your personal faith one way or the other.

Which is why I corrected you explaining what faith is because YOU brought it up I didn't and when you did YOU GOT IT WRONG!
The least you could do is admit it .

I've already mentioned what I thought faith was and what science was.

That's your person faith and you welcome to it as long as it does not interfere with evidence supported science.

People are posting factual, scientific data on every thread. Your failure to read it doesn't make it any less valid. We can't make you read or understand science, that's up to you my friend.

I am only concerned with this thread and so far all you have shown me is the typical tactics for getting off the subject Darwinists often use.

If you think posting hard scientific data is a tactic, there is no reasoning with you. Your belief system simply does not allow you to have the mentality necessary to understand science. There's no point in continuing to discuss science with you. I never put people on ignore but like I said, your mentality is that which doesn't allow you to understand the science behind the theory of evolution. This is your loss.

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by jfj123
Originally posted by Aermacchi

And what do you suppose YOU have done in these threads besides accuse people of trolling? Just what do you suppose YOUR posts are?

The alternative?


Pffft

Actually I've posted plenty of factual data

How about you?

You make it seem all that stuff you copy pasted was a lot of work and such a big contribution LOL c'mon guy gimme a break

Why would you say that? It wasn't hard work at all In fact, finding all that info was EXTREMELY easy ! That's what is so funny. All this scientific data is so easy to find yet creationists/TOE detractors can't ever seem to find it

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Well if we start posting pages of data are you gonna read it?

Yes.

Would we read yours? Probably not.

My exact point

Everyone, creationists and evolutionists alike on this thread have been pretty good about summarizing their outside sources i think.

Not really, no. Many of the creationists are simply making claims that evolution is false but refuse to provide evidence to back up their claims while people who are pro-evolution are posting videos, summaries, links, etc..

Originally posted by Aermacchi
By the way that bit about the ark, I should be more specific that I believe SOME not all Dinosaurs were on the ark. The word dinosaurs covers a lot of species .

No offense but I can't buy the whole ark thing for many reasons.
If you think about it, 2 of each animal is not a breeding population so that alone doesn't work so you must dump that idea. This leads you to the idea that all the worlds animals must be gathered in a breeding population in a very short period of time. Now that huge breeding population must be fed and sheltered. How many millions upon millions of animals would need to be kept in the ark and what about all the millions and millions of tons of food.
Now you have the construction of the ark itself. The building material of the time would have been wood. At a certain point, wood cannot support itself structurally and will collapse in upon itself so it's simply not structurally possible to build a boat of the size needed to house and feed all the animals. Even if it were possible to build a ship of the size required, a massive crew of skilled individuals would be needed to complete the project.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by jfj123]

Where did all the water come from? Form underground and most probably from outer space. There are all kinds of possible explanations. There could have been another planet in our solar system that suffered a collision sending massive amounts of water into our orbital path. There could have been an ice shield in the upper atmosphere that melted quickly due to a solar event. The ice shield theory would explain the longer life spans and larger animals and insects(there is evidence of 3 foot long dragon flies and grasshoppers). A greater atmospheric pressure would allow for heavier creatures to fly prior to the flood, and after the flood they would have had difficulty flying, as a result they became extinct.

There is evidence for dinosaurs and modern man living at the same time all over the world.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Aermacchi

darwinwasright.homestead.com...

OK THIS IS JUST AWESOME !!!!
You sir ROCK for posting this

This is the best vid I've seen yet which sums up the FACTS, as the narrator puts it

I gave you a star just for posting this video

This is my special "evolved 8 thumbs up"

So you admit that ID science is different then creationism science.

We have been saying that for years

Just liked the video
Neither ID nor creationism has any evidence to support them.

Well John Matrix contribution is just chopped liver If you don't want to believe it is evidence for a young earth.

Someone sure was impressesd with that video though LOL

OK THIS IS JUST AWESOME !!!!
You sir ROCK for posting this
This is the best vid I've seen yet which sums up the FACTS, as the narrator puts it
I gave you a star just for posting this video This is my special "evolved 8 thumbs up"

Originally posted by jfj123
Now you have the construction of the ark itself. The building material of the time would have been wood. At a certain point, wood cannot support itself structurally and will collapse in upon itself so it's simply not structurally possible to build a boat of the size needed to house and feed all the animals. Even if it were possible to build a ship of the size required, a massive crew of skilled individuals would be needed to complete the project.

Actually, if you start thinking about how it might be possible, you will find it is possible. The ark as discribed is a massive structure made from what would have been very large and very strong trees.....probably larger than any trees we know of today. Not all animals would have to be inside the ark either. Many would have survived on floating bogs.

If some animals were young and therefore smaller, and if they were in a state of hibernation, caring for them becomes less of a problem.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Originally posted by jfj123

It's not sciences job to debunk your faith only to further science. We have no interest in your faith.

Hey YOU keep bringing it up I didn't. If you read my posts I keep having to ask what religion has to do with this

Well it's religious people who, for the most part, are claiming evolution doesn't exist because it interferes with their religious beliefs.

What delusions? Please be specific and be specific as to why they are delusions.

The delusion you have the we think Science and Religion are the same for one

I have NEVER said that.
Science requires facts.
Religion requires faith.
They are 2 completely different things.
I have NEVER, at any point, suggested otherwise.

Again, I don't care about your personal faith one way or the other.

Which is why I corrected you explaining what faith is because YOU brought it up I didn't and when you did YOU GOT IT WRONG!
The least you could do is admit it .

I've already mentioned what I thought faith was and what science was.

That's your person faith and you welcome to it as long as it does not interfere with evidence supported science.

People are posting factual, scientific data on every thread. Your failure to read it doesn't make it any less valid. We can't make you read or understand science, that's up to you my friend.

I am only concerned with this thread and so far all you have shown me is the typical tactics for getting off the subject Darwinists often use.

If you think posting hard scientific data is a tactic, there is no reasoning with you. Your belief system simply does not allow you to have the mentality necessary to understand science. There's no point in continuing to discuss science with you. I never put people on ignore but like I said, your mentality is that which doesn't allow you to understand the science behind the theory of evolution. This is your loss.

Hey guy it was YOU being demeaning to John Matrix with that snake stuff it was YOU who brought up the comparison using faith and religion getting it wrong. It was YOU using entire posts from therads of other forums where you "say" you forgot where to cite them. It was YOU who brought up the faith VS Science argument and YOU who kept using it to attack creationsist pigeon holing them into this idea you have NOT us YOU and all you have to do is follow the damn thread where I first posted.

Oh and by the way, Ill bet you my understanding of science is much more than yours where I am still attending coarses for a higher degree and who I say I put on ignore is so that they will at least KNOW not to waste their time as I like you have found they are the same crap from the same people. It simply saves time separating the rants from the reliable reads. I know I am on peoples ignore list and am not offended in the least I encourage YOU to put me on yours as well


Have a nice life

The sun is shrinking at a rate of a few meters a year in it's diameter. At the present rate, assuming it's a constant, how much larger would the sun have been....say.....100,000 years ago? Large enough to burn the earth to a crisp?

That means no life here folks. Might as well move on because we are all imagining ourselves.

reply to post by Aermacchi

Else you might of ended up like them there columbine kids shooting at everyone boasting about how wonderful Natural Selection was or that guy Jeffery Dahmer who said he didn't respect life because he was taught life is nothing special in evolution classes !

Another fine example of your intelligence. In other threads you beg me to hang from your penis and now you slander me with association to known murders and serial killers.

You are basically a loser...plain and simple.

I don't mind verbal jousting and arguing. Even personal attacks. Look at the exchanges between myself and B.A.C. Do you find anything remotely similar between B.A.C and I? We obviously don't agree on everything but he's hands down more classy and civil than you. But I think you're trash who resorts to whatever they think needs to be done to get a retarded point across. If that's your idea of winning then you got it dude. You freakin' win. You're ignored troll.

Jesus would be proud.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by griffinrl]

100,000 years times 2 meters a year = 200,000 meters divided by 1,000 meters = 200 kilometers. Let's be conservative and call it 100 km.

Anybody know what the sun would do to the earth if it was half of 100km (50 kilometers) closer to us? Don't forget, that's only 100,000 years ago.

Go back a million years and it's 1,000 km diameter bigger which means 500 km closer to earth. No need to light your BBQ and no evolution to study.

Your millions of years just went up in solar radiation and smoke.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Originally posted by jfj123
Now you have the construction of the ark itself. The building material of the time would have been wood. At a certain point, wood cannot support itself structurally and will collapse in upon itself so it's simply not structurally possible to build a boat of the size needed to house and feed all the animals. Even if it were possible to build a ship of the size required, a massive crew of skilled individuals would be needed to complete the project.

Actually, if you start thinking about how it might be possible, you will find it is possible.

Not possible. Like I said, at a certain point, structural wood cannot support it's own weight let alone the weight of animals and food for them.

If some animals were young and therefore smaller, and if they were in a state of hibernation, caring for them becomes less of a problem.

There is an estimated 3-30 million species on earth. Let's use the low number of 3 million.
Now we need a healthy breeding population. Let's take 500 non-related males and 500 non-related females of each species for a total of 1000 animals per species.
So that means we're looking at a total animal population of 3 billion animals. If each animal only weighed an average of 1 pound, the ark would need to support 3 billion pounds of weight, plus the weight of all the food, plus the weight of the ship itself.
Sorry but it's not going to happen.

Originally posted by griffinrl
reply to post by Aermacchi

 

Else you might of ended up like them there columbine kids shooting at everyone boasting about how wonderful Natural Selection was or that guy Jeffery Dahmer who said he didn't respect life because he was taught life is nothing special in evolution classes !

Another fine example of your intelligence. In other threads you beg me to hang from your penis and now you slander me with association to known murders and serial killers.

You are basically a loser...plain and simple.

I don't mind verbal jousting and arguing. Even personal attacks. But I think you're trash who resorts to whatever they think needs to be done to get a retarded point across.

Jesus would be proud.

Jesus would be saying "YOu brood of Vipers! " and as for you saying I told you to hang from my penis.

Liar, show me the copy pasted exact quote.

Slander you say? How? I didn't compare you to anyone I gave a possibility to one of your usual sarcastic remarks to degrade threads you are losing in. Another tactic you have used it to get noobfun and weed in a tag team of insults where you successfully end the dialogue high fiving yourselves betting whether or not Ill come back to the argument. When I do it was to tell you the argument was lost by you but you were vain enough to think you won the bet LOL

You were doing the same thing here trying to bring up old threads into the present one. Same old crap by the same old griff.

Mock the fundie in comparisons of Biblical metaphors as if we think all were science, ridicule, and derail, tag team and celebrate with yourselves being the only ones left in the thread after making it too stupid to continue. .

same crap

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Hey guy it was YOU being demeaning to John Matrix with that snake stuff it was YOU who brought up the comparison using faith and religion getting it wrong.

Demeaning?
Snake stuff?
What?

It was YOU using entire posts from therads of other forums where you "say" you forgot where to cite them.

You have me confused with someone else.

It was YOU who brought up the faith VS Science argument

It wasn't an "argument". I mentioned they were different things which is true.

Oh and by the way, Ill bet you my understanding of science is much more than yours where I am still attending coarses for a higher degree

I won't pretend to know more or less then you as I don't know you personally. I can only go by what you've said on this thread which may or may not be a fair overall representation of your intellect.

That being said, it seems as if you'd like to know about my education.
I have 3 degree's
I'm a licensed builder and own a construction company.
I have a background in many subjects as part of my minors which I won't go into unless you'd like me to.

and who I say I put on ignore is so that they will at least KNOW not to waste their time as I like you have found they are the same crap from the same people.

Like I said, I never put anyone on ignore. I feel that it's a way of hiding. Just my opinion.

It simply saves time separating the rants from the reliable reads. I know I am on peoples ignore list and am not offended in the least I encourage YOU to put me on yours as well
Have a nice life

I won't do that but thanks for the advice. Just because we disagree here, doesn't automatically mean I won't agree with you somewhere else and I wouldn't want to assume I wouldn't agree with you regarding other subjects.

reply to post by jfj123


This whole Ark thing is a good childrens story.
There is a sad part where the world is going end.
There is a good part where animals must get along together and of
course their in pairs, just like mommy and daddy.
And theres the happy ending where every body lives happy ever after.

Unfortunatly some Adults can't separate a Childrems Story from reality.

Two of each animal, come on. You would need something the size of the
QE2 just to store the Food. Unless they were really really into recycling.
The logistics for this would be astronomical

Evolution is nothing more than blind faith,it's THE religion for those without a brain,a fairytale-but instead of a magic wand the new MAGICAL ingredent is TIME, billions & billions of years.Way back in time (or as OTHER science fiction writers put it Long Long ago) apearently something started from nothing & then it exploded & by the most outrageous & impossible of odds one thing lead to another to another to another & life started, all life,Plant animal,Human, it somehow,some impossible & unexplainable way,evolved. All from this single life source.Meet your great,great,great,great,Etc. Grandfather,the Pine tree(or was it a turnip,or a flea.)& that from something out of nothing billions & billions of years ago. A simply foolish piece of fantasy that has been force fed by that most trustable & reliable friend of us all, the Government thru it's public,gov. controlled school system.Go ahead stay a dunce,trust THEM with the single most important weapon & tool in you & your children possession, YOUR BRAIN & what information that brain recieves.Go ahead say it "I TRUST THE GOV." The complete absurdity of evolution theory & the vehemence it is defended with only speak to how truly desperate it's advocates are to rule out the existence of the Creator.

reply to post by jfj123


Well, that's what all ships were built from for thousands of years. They carried a lot of cargo all over the globe.

We know very little if anything about the ship building technology of Noah's time, except for what we read in scripture, and the size of that barge is possible when you consider that trees could well have been a six hundred feet tall.

The worlds tallest living tree is 367' 6" tall...so 600 ft in Noah's time is not unreasonable.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by John Matrix
Originally posted by jfj123
Now you have the construction of the ark itself. The building material of the time would have been wood. At a certain point, wood cannot support itself structurally and will collapse in upon itself so it's simply not structurally possible to build a boat of the size needed to house and feed all the animals. Even if it were possible to build a ship of the size required, a massive crew of skilled individuals would be needed to complete the project.

Actually, if you start thinking about how it might be possible, you will find it is possible.

Not possible. Like I said, at a certain point, structural wood cannot support it's own weight let alone the weight of animals and food for them.

If some animals were young and therefore smaller, and if they were in a state of hibernation, caring for them becomes less of a problem.

There is an estimated 3-30 million species on earth. Let's use the low number of 3 million.
Now we need a healthy breeding population. Let's take 500 non-related males and 500 non-related females of each species for a total of 1000 animals per species.
So that means we're looking at a total animal population of 3 billion animals. If each animal only weighed an average of 1 pound, the ark would need to support 3 billion pounds of weight, plus the weight of all the food, plus the weight of the ship itself.
Sorry but it's not going to happen.

Let's take 500 non-related males and 500 non-related females of each species for a total of 1000 animals per species

Yet you expect us to believe an even more bleak a scenario for all the species if evolution we true. It is like John Matrix said, if you read HOW it can, then you might KNOW it is certainly within the realm of possibility.

I spent 6 years in the Military and The last day of my enlistment I flew off that carrier and looked down at the Carrier made of steel with all that heavey equipment on it and I knew then an ark would have been no problem at all when it comes to getting it to float.