U.S. rattled as Mexico drug war bleeds over border

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Perhaps this is why our new Homeland Security boss is saying, as the SHTF, that as soon as this stuff crosses the border, they have a contingency Plan. but, duh, it's here.

reply to post by sinister_scarecrow


I hope we have not derailed the thread too far, and if so I apologize.

I am sorry to hear your family situation went south, no pun intended. When inundated with continual rhetoric about how great a place is, I am certain one would slowly develop a disdain for that place. As before, I am not a boastful braggart, nor do I throw my "Texas Pride" in the face of everyone I meet. I do love my state and nation, to that I will not deny.

I understand you probably do not know a lot of Texas History, which is totally normal seeing as you are not from the state. Since you asked, the reason many people speak of the Alamo is because even being heavily outnumbered they successfully defended two attacks from the Mexican Army (led by Mexican President Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna) before succumbing to the third. No Texan defenders were allowed to live. This provided a catalyst for many Texans to join the fight. In the Battle of San Jacinto the Texans, many shouting "Remember the Alamo" captured Santa Anna, forcing him to order his troops out of Texas and ending the war.

As far as scientific breakthroughs from the state, I can't contribute to that, as I am no scholar but instead an ordinary person. We do have some very good universities, but again I can't speak for their achievements as it is not my area of interest.

Seeing as how this is ATS, I suppose I can put forth "Gene Roddenberry" as a noted individual. The creator of Star Trek who has inspired countless others to think beyond our planet.

If you look into some of the more recent threads about current resolutions based on the 10th Amendment, you will see that many non-Texans place a lot of hope in the state. We have a large population and thus several congressional seats, a lot of land mass, and many resources. We are also a well armed people.

Anyhow, again, I understand that you may not like the state, many don't, but I hope that by reading my replies you will see most of us aren't close minded or boastful as you have experienced. Just as the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so do the loudmouths get the negative publicity.

arming the drug wars


For me it's obvious that some people are making a humongous amount of money on this, drugs and weapons...and by some people I mean politicians and other powerful individuals all over the world.

Isn't it funny that when the toys coming from China were found to have lead in them, they immediately banned them in the US...but, nothing really has happened in the way of a real effort to stop drug trafficking. Remember South Florida in the 80's? Kidnappings, shootings, murders, but back then, it was the Colombians. Now it's Mexico. (And Afghanistan, coincidentally, the poppy fields have been in full bloom ever since the American occupation).
So, I think that a good solution would be to close the borders. Both. North and South. Believe me, cartels will find a way to smuggle drugs and get weapons through Canadian routes.
Then we can all focus on dealing with our separate internal national problems in peace.

[edit on 3/3/2009 by haika]

Originally posted by Autonomous
reply to post by sinister_scarecrow

 

I hope we have not derailed the thread too far, and if so I apologize.

I am sorry to hear your family situation went south, no pun intended. When inundated with continual rhetoric about how great a place is, I am certain one would slowly develop a disdain for that place. As before, I am not a boastful braggart, nor do I throw my "Texas Pride" in the face of everyone I meet. I do love my state and nation, to that I will not deny.

I understand you probably do not know a lot of Texas History, which is totally normal seeing as you are not from the state. Since you asked, the reason many people speak of the Alamo is because even being heavily outnumbered they successfully defended two attacks from the Mexican Army (led by Mexican President Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna) before succumbing to the third. No Texan defenders were allowed to live. This provided a catalyst for many Texans to join the fight. In the Battle of San Jacinto the Texans, many shouting "Remember the Alamo" captured Santa Anna, forcing him to order his troops out of Texas and ending the war.

As far as scientific breakthroughs from the state, I can't contribute to that, as I am no scholar but instead an ordinary person. We do have some very good universities, but again I can't speak for their achievements as it is not my area of interest.

Seeing as how this is ATS, I suppose I can put forth "Gene Roddenberry" as a noted individual. The creator of Star Trek who has inspired countless others to think beyond our planet.

If you look into some of the more recent threads about current resolutions based on the 10th Amendment, you will see that many non-Texans place a lot of hope in the state. We have a large population and thus several congressional seats, a lot of land mass, and many resources. We are also a well armed people.

Anyhow, again, I understand that you may not like the state, many don't, but I hope that by reading my replies you will see most of us aren't close minded or boastful as you have experienced. Just as the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so do the loudmouths get the negative publicity.

Wow!....I truly am astounded. Even in the face of a bias based onslaught of Texas you still remained calm and even showed humility. I assure you this is the first I have ever seen this from someone from Texas. I commend you. You alone are the best Texan I have ever talked to. It was the humility you showed that I respect. You see humility doesn't equate weakness, if anything is shows strength of character and you are the first Texan I have ever met that has done that. Hubris is a very unattractive quality which I have had the unfortunate experience of getting to know personified in my ex-wife and her family. Great job, you are literally one in a million, lol. What you have said makes total sense to me at least hearing it from you alone,........I agree.Any other Texan, I would have just disregarded it. "A soft word turns away wrath" and you knew that. It's just too bad many other Texans aren't as intelligent or aware of others around them as you are. Cya.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by sinister_scarecrow]

Makes even more sense for the PTB to "continue" the drug war myth. It is worth a lot of money to them, and gives them control over the fearful populace, directly or indirectly through gangs financed by the black market for drugs created by prohibition. Why would they give up that power?

Great points in this thread, this is the type of thing I was looking for. All that had to be done was change the name and subject slightly.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by CapsFan8]

The mexican cartels have all the stimulas money.
check this out
Mexico's Stimulas Money

reply to post by haika


The Drug war is the whole problem. Before the drug war, before drug prohibition started with Cocain and Opium, Mexico And South America were doing just fine economically. It was only after the drug war that the countries started going broke.

A lot of the countries to the south were cash crop countries, mainly Coca leaves for south america. So when they couldnt sell their major crop to anyone they went into a depression. Now they all are trying to repair years of horrible economies, civil wars and narco wars. Its one step forward and two steps back though, directly related with the Drug prohibition leading into the current war on drugs.

Its the same thing in the countries around the Golden Triangle, with the heroin trade. When it was legal those countries were doing fine, when opium use was prohibited it struck a big blow to their economy. Now its an illegal market and they struggle with civil war, narco wars, terrorists, militias and so many other things.

It seems only the white nations China and Japan are the only ones almost completely unaffected by the drug war. Theres the conspiracy, why go through with an unpopular uneffective and extremly costly war on drugs?
When you could end prohibition, regulate the trade of narcotics, free up these countries economies, and get rid of the illegal market that funds most terror groups in the middle east. There would still be problems in those countries but with their major cash crops producing profit again they will be able to grow economically.

when you have no more cheeks to turn, and no more patience for the crime shoveled onto your doorstep, then one tends to grow irrational. this problem has been getting worse and worse, and the usa has turned a blind eye to the issue for far too long. it didn't help that we had a ding-dong in the white house for 8 years either. gun control is the ability to hit what you're aiming at, and not allowing your firearms to come into the hands of children, the government, or the enemy. right now most guns that are bought or stolen are going to the border where the mexican army is letting them slip by horrible checkpoints. the government down there doesn't care, as long as their politicians are getting their money under the table. mexico is a beautiful country with many natural resources. there could be so many good things to happen there, if it were not for the despicable conditions the government keeps. therefore, i'm all for playing whack-a-mole with a aks loaded with a good scope and laser sight.

Originally posted by spark00
The mexican cartels have all the stimulas money.
check this out
Mexico's Stimulas Money

You know, I have to laugh at that, because today, I came up with "another conspiracy theory" today about what happened with the TARP money, and this is almost exactly what I came up with.

I asked myself: Isn't it interesting that we can't find 2+ trillion dollars that went bye-bye in the first bailout. And isn't it interesting that it seems to be that our government seems to be waiting for......something major to happen before they do anything about the violence in Mexico.

And then I put those two thoughts together and said: What if the 2+trillion dollars are being held in a secret account, to be used to basically buy up Mexico when the time is right? We come up with an excuse to invade, use the money to grease the palms of the corrupt politicians and the drug cartels who are now in control of Mexico, and viola.....the way is paved for the takeover of Mexico.

Now, as I see the 207 million in cash in that article, it appears that maybe the money was never put into an account to be used later, but has already been distributed.

Maybe this sudden increase in violence we are witnessing is due to the "stimulus" money being given to covert agents (working with the CIA?) to start causing trouble and violence in Mexico.... and then the Mexican government goes in (after we give the Mexican govt money to fight the drug cartels that are also backed by us).... and so now, our government is funding both sides of the war, in order to start a civil war, and to have an excuse to go in and "re-stabilize the nation."

Hmmmm.....I wonder?

Of course, even if my theory is not true (after all, I have so many theories as to what happened with the missing TARP money!!), we have to all admit to ourselves, that one way or another, American money IS funding both sides of the Mexican drug war. Those Americans who use drugs are funding the cartels, and those Americans who pay taxes, are now funding the Mexican government, because we just gave Mexico a lot of money so they could send in more troops. And those Americans who buying drugs and paying taxes are funding both sides.

-----------.................

By the way, did anyone else besides me see that today, 7500 more Mexican troops just got sent to Ciudad Juarez today to battle the cartels. They said it was made possible, because we just gave the Mexican government millions of more dollars to battle the cartels.




[edit on 3-3-2009 by nikiano]

Two of Mexico's deadliest drug cartels have reached a combined force of 100,000 foot soldiers, wreaking havoc across the country and threatening U.S. border states, the U.S. Defense Department told The Washington Times.

The cartels rival the Mexican army in size and have both Mexico and the U.S. in crisis mode as they deal with what they fear is a coming insurgency along the border.

"It's moving to crisis proportions," an unidentified defense official told The Times. The official also said the cartels have reached a size where they are on par with Mexico's army of 130,000.

About 7,000 people have died in the last year — more than 1,000 in January alone — at the hands of Mexico's increasingly violent drug cartels. Murders often involve beheadings or bodies dissolved in vats of acid.

The two most dangerous cartels are the Sinaloa cartel, nicknamed the "Federation" or "Golden Triangle" by law enforcement agencies, and "Los Zetas" (the Gulf Cartel). They have been growing and are reportedly discussing a truce or merger to better withstand government forces, The Times reported.

Mexico is now only behind Pakistan and Iran as a U.S. national security concern, coming in ahead of Afghanistan and Iraq, the defense official told The Times.

The country's attorney general, Eduardo Medina Mora, called last week for more U.S. prosecutions of people who sell weapons illegally to the cartels, as well as more efforts to stop drug profits from flowing south.

Mexico has spent $6.5 billion over the last two years, on top of its normal public security budget, on the fight against drugs, but that falls short of the $10 billion Mexican drug gangs bring in annually, he said.

While violence in Tijuana is down sharply from last year, killings have spiked in the largest border city, Ciudad Juarez. The city of 1.3 million across from El Paso, Texas, is now the most worrisome of a number of hotspots, Medina Mora said.

U.S. Says Threat of Mexican Drug Cartels Approaching 'Crisis Proportions'

This is quite worriesome. Should I be cancelling my spring break in Cancun?!

Mexican drug cartels crossing into U.S.

Mexico's drug production up

Mexico troops move in to retake warring border city

War on drugs clock

[edit on 4-3-2009 by delta33]

[edit on 4-3-2009 by delta33]

Originally posted by delta33
Two of Mexico's deadliest drug cartels have reached a combined force of 100,000 foot soldiers, wreaking havoc across the country and threatening U.S. border states, the U.S. Defense Department told The Washington Times.

The cartels rival the Mexican army in size and have both Mexico and the U.S. in crisis mode as they deal with what they fear is a coming insurgency along the border.

"It's moving to crisis proportions," an unidentified defense official told The Times. The official also said the cartels have reached a size where they are on par with Mexico's army of 130,000.

Yeah, I heard this story on the news as I was lying in bed listening to coast to coast radio last night. I had no idea that the cartels were as large as the Mexican army. That...is....not....good.

SeekingMyself,
Yes...I would definitely cancel Spring Break in Cancun! They are warning college students here in Arizona to NOT go to Mexico this year for Spring Break. It's too dangerous.


[edit on 4-3-2009 by nikiano]

what we really need to do is go to war with mexico, giving them the ultimatum saying if you dont stop the illegal crossing into our counrty we have no choice but to wage war with yours! there problem solved!

They can charge and kill alot of americans real quick.
Border states better be armed to hold them till the military
can get back overseas.

Originally posted by Nemox42
so basically you want your cake and eat it too. You want to be able to bear arms but yet you want magically criminals not to have them. And your calling me naive? What i was trying to get was that, if you want violent crime to stop, stop giving the criminal the tools to use violent weapons.

Had this been done 250 years ago, it might have worked.

At this point it would be criminal in reverse; it merely makes the citizenry far more defenseless.

I can't take on an entire mexican drug warlord operation, no. But I can certainly show unwelcome visitors -- local or foreign -- that I know how to use a glock if it comes down to it.

As for selling weapons to criminals, there are more than enough laws on the books already to greatly minimize this; the unwillingness of authorities to enforce those laws is another story.

And beyond that, guns will always be available for the same reason drugs are always available. Since there is really nothing realistic we can do about some degree of that, all the more reason why at the very least, every citizen ought to be capable of defending themselves.

To consider the hundreds of millions of gun-type weapons in this country (if not more) irrelevent to "making guns illegal" for law-abiding citizens to keep today, is beyond simply 'unreasonable'. If I were an evil overlord that's exactly what I'd do. That's what every historical evil overlord has done. That's why some people fight so valiantly to keep that from happening.

PJ

The mexican cartels wont attack the U.S.
We are their #1 customers.
But if they get backed into a corner they could become unpredictable.

Originally posted by jheated7
what we really need to do is go to war with mexico, giving them the ultimatum saying if you dont stop the illegal crossing into our counrty we have no choice but to wage war with yours! there problem solved!

Isn't it the US responsiblity to keep them out?
I mean, they are free to walk up north to the border between Mex-US as long as they are within the Mexican territory, but once they cross the border line, well, it's in the US hands to keep them out.