A Conspiracy Against ATS?

It was a post by Alien, just saw the top of it before it vanished, his name also appeared on the last posted.

Wonder what he had to say.

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Originally posted by enigmania
It was a post by Alien, just saw the top of it before it vanished, his name also appeared on the last posted.

Wonder what he had to say.

I saw that too

It wasnt an Anon post.

Originally posted by enigmania
Why was it so fiercely protected, and no criticism allowed?

You've contributed 91 posts of not much more than criticism. Why would you suggest we don't allow it?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

You've contributed 91 posts of not much more than criticism. Why would you suggest we don't allow it?

You could hardly ban me. But every effort was made to shut me up.

Let the people decide what they do with the claims presented.

Well actually ages ago i was going to start a thread about "what if ATS is a conspiracy in itself"

I just could not think of a fill in for the introduction. As i thought that so much of the public and professionals come in to start topics that ATS don't always start themselves.

I thought if i did start a thread like that just for fun then i go against all my beliefs which is a win for ATS. I would not trully know who started ATS and it could be a government website in itself(the reason i state this as its easily found in google) to reel in all the conspiracy theorists and steal their tactics, observe them and study them and just how much info is leaked to the public(whether truth seekers can get away with it or they find ways for that info to be supressed further as no one out in the real world would believe this site unless they are a truth seeker). But thats just assumptions and paranoia on my part and would nto make for good discussion as i trully do not believe it is. But thought it would be interesting to see who comes in to reply to it and see if i can catch out anyone.

Like all the disinfo's are employed by them to not catch out ATS as a government website. LOL dont get angry or laugh admin its only natural to question on a website that provides this road way to the truth. But all in all i like this site regardless.


[edit on 1-3-2009 by Applesandoranges]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Why don't you qoute and answer the other parts of that post?

2nd line.

Originally posted by enigmania
Why don't you qoute and answer the other parts of that post?

There's no point. You never accept any answer that's given... thereby providing perfect case study for the problems expressed in neformore opening post.

Well now!!

Look what we have here!

Isn't this a perfect example of how groups of people with like viewpoints, and strong supporting arguments can get to a point, when a subject gets near disclosure, it is flamed by its adversaries to the point that comments must be labeled off topic. I did not see the comments but at this point i can only imagine...

There are some questions that need to be answered here...

The topic of discussion, to the best of my interpretation, is:

a) The possibility of covert organizations infiltrating ATS to either gather information or derail and hopefully ban topics when lose to disclosure.

b) The relation to the above resulting in the censorship of ALL of ATS's members topical choices by its governing body due to the comments and actions of the few.

Am I missing something here?

There is no positive proof for "A", although it is a known possibility to all frequenting members, and has not yet been denied by anyone.

Topic "B" on the other hand has substantial backing and has actually caused the scenario that topic "A" has referred to.

Hmmmmm....

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Talking about the OP.

I lined out my counterargument against this thread.

I know Neformore has been online twice since.

He does not want to respond to questions about his thread.

You ignore my argument.

If I see the stars at certain posts, I know there's a lot more people that oppose the OP.

They just don't want to speak up, cause they all see the flak it causes.

Moderators are human to and alsoe form their own decisions about things which can be pretty hard as i applaud many moderators for being able to hold back on what they may not like being said but know that its what the forum is all about. Different opinions, freedom of speech etc. Noone can trully be like the perfect Lord and not feel some sort of emotion and supress it.
It can be hard reading some replies without wanting to explode or laugh your head off. I think its great they can cope with this and come together to make decisions about what will suit the site thats been created for the benefit of all those who seek the truth.
The negatives would be that we dont trully know who they are we just think they are on our side because they created this site for us so we go against our belief that we question everything. Which is what moderators need to deal with in order to not feel anger towards bias, contradictions etc.

This forum is dedicated to general conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and government scandals that may not fit into other topical forums on ATS. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.comcom's tradition of focusing on conspiracy theory, cover-ups, and scandals.

Just to get that out of the way...


We come here, all of us, everyday, to see what the government isn't telling us. Isn't talking about. Is covering up. Why is it that when we ask questions to our superiors, who have laid this groundwork for the free discussion of all of our superiors, we are treated with the same "Bend over, take it, like it and dont ask me again." attitude?

Yea i know i don't post a lot. I like to sit back and watch. Learn and observe. I can also see trends though. I can see trends from a non-posters point of view as well as the mods. I also can relate this trend here with alot of other trends outside of here. Lies. Lies consist of half truths and cover-ups. Blatant and subtle. Tricky and loud. Ive seen them all on this thread by superiors on this site.

So whats up?

Deny Ignorance? "Deny ignorance, unless we tell you that that subject requires your ignorance, due to its importance to the truth and our unprepairedness to handle being the world providers of that truth."

By the zipped-lips thats what were gettin.
Tell the truth.

I'm rather new so I haven't seen a trend - as yet.

But - I have been completely shocked at times -
at the seemingly intentional disregard for general human decency,
and the disregard for the T& C.
The T&Cs are fair, clear and possess a certain high-mindedness.

I think these folks know exactly what they are doing when they do this.
This communication does feel deliberate and intentionally disruptive.
And they do typically cry foul time and time again on ATS -

I have to agree. Something .... is stinky.

Maybe there is a small number of people that come here to disrupt the site.....maybe. But I think it just has more to do with people getting riled up, breaking the T & C, then being poor sports about it and proceed to defend their actions, which may lead to them going over board, maybe even hating ATS because of it.

Some people can't handle criticism but can certainly dish it. I can get out of hand now and then, have also been warned and docked points because of it, I don't complain because I can admit when I over step my boundaries. Only once did I actually complain, because I honestly felt the mod censored me because his opinion was opposite of mine.

And don't rule that out, like the OP said, they are people, just like us. So is it really hard to imagine some of them allowing their emotions to enter the fray now and then, making poor judgement calls? After all, power certainly can corrupt and just what kind of person is it that seeks the kind of power that a mod has anyway. Here's a conspiracy for ya, maybe some of your mods are agents for some organization, silently playing by the rules, laying in wait to suppress or influence. Or like cops, just like to have control.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by Sheeper]

*loam approaches this thread like a moth to flame*

I obviously come very late to this thread....and it's long...so forgive me if I've skimmed past important areas.

But I think I get the gist:

neformore argues the possibility of organized efforts- either planned or spontaneously created- to manipulate the discourse on certain topics across the board.

Zepherian rejects these possibilities and implies, rather, neformore's thread serves the purpose to distract from ATS' real concerns over certain topics of discussion.

Originally posted by Zepherian
...a mountain of rhetoric won't change the fact that you guys are scared stiff of the implications of dealing with these topics...

Zepherian goes further:

Originally posted by Zepherian
...as they are very close to the source of all conspiracy and indeed political and economic power. It's where things start getting "unconfortable".

...and nearly every post thereafter seems to either be in support of one of the above two positions, or otherwise engaged in a semantic argument over the meaning of "censorship".

Sound about right?

RE: neformore

I guess in my view I'm not surprised by neformore's assertion. There could be secret, organized efforts to manipulate discussion on the boards. I don't know if that's true or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

Why would anyone else be?

This is an interesting place to be. It is populated by people who come here to produce and/or consume ideas. It's just like a modern-day neighborhood mall in many respects. There are BIG stores for the big topics and boutique stores for the smaller ones-- each sharing a pool of consumers with varying degrees of loyalty to the various brands offered.

In that context, ATS by definition requires the purposeful exchange of ideas. There are buyers and sellers here. And it might often be the case there are allied groups of sellers or allied groups of buyers.

It might often be the case, too, that seller and supporting consumers converge in a manner that may appear purposeful- a type of spontaneous organization.

So none of these things would surprise me.

In some respects, acknowledging these possibilities feels a bit like noticing water is wet.


RE: Zepherian

I think Zepherian point goes too far. ATS may be concerned about many things, but somehow I don't think its because they think certain topics are too close to the truth.

I apologize if this sounds insulting, but that position seems a little juvenile to me.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that such a thing is impossible. But I am saying that with respect to the topics mentioned as examples in this thread, or elsewhere, I just don't think that is the case here.


RE: Censorship

I guess the principle poster on this subject has been enigmania.

You seem really emotionally wrapped up in getting an admission that censorship is taking place. And I've also really not understood the attention your demand has received.

But I have to admit I've also gotten whiplash just from reading the varying definitions offered for the word.

Why is this so hard? There is personal censorship...There is private censorship...There is governmental censorship.

The middle category applies to ATS.

Big deal.

Why do you need an admission this is the case?

Somewhere in this thread you responded to a statement that "censorship is not inherently bad" by saying:

Originally posted by enigmania

It's definately not inherently good, that's for sure.

So why can't both positions be correct?

I believe censorship is neither inherently good or bad. Its desirability or undesirability depends upon its purpose and context. Wouldn't you agree?

Since we are dealing with a private business, here, why does it disturb you so much that the ownership might make decisions that are in their commercial interests? I could understand getting indignant and demanding accountability if this were a government site...but it's not.

So what gives?

When you go to a Chinese restaurant, do you complain to the ownership that they don't serve cheeseburgers? Do you force them to admit their 'BBQ Ribs' are nothing like the real deal?

Think about that.

Please don't take my humor personally. I guess I'm just confused by your point of view...

Except, I do kind of get this:

Originally posted by enigmania

I love ATS, I just hate this one aspect.

I hate it, because I love ATS.

I don't expect you to understand.

Whatever people.

I understand that.

So if you love ATS, let the point about the BBQ ribs go... Eat the rest of the meal!

Overall, it's not so bad.



Best of luck, peoples.

I'm kind of hungry now.

*loam goes in search of food*

[edit on 2-3-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by enigmania
I lined out my counterargument against this thread.

I know Neformore has been online twice since.

He does not want to respond to questions about his thread.

Well now. Thats interesting isn't it? You are actively monitoring when I'm on here?

I'm flattered. No, really I am.

Whilst it seems that for the past 48 hours you've had nothing better to do than sit on this thread and post criticism about ATS with your broken record technique (and I have to wonder, if you dislike the place so much why are you here?), I unfortunately have other things to do on the site, being a moderator and all - one of which was to respond to an issue raised in this thread incidentally - and other conversations to have.

See - this is a messageboard where things are discussed, and the last time I checked I wasn't chained to a particular topic - even the ones I start.

Also, while you've been talking to yourself and making your unfounded, blanket assertions and accusations, I've been asleep. Imagine that. People on a messageboard sleeping. Amazing.

You've said an awful lot Enigmania, and I've read it all. And you know what - its proved to me that you aren't prepared to listen to a damn thing anyone says to you. All you've done is spouted the same thing over and over and tried to portray yourself as a victim, by claiming that peoples responses to the things you typed were them "ganging up on you". Well heads up - its a message board where topics are put forward and debated, and replying to things that people write is a part of that.

After observing that, I've come to the conclusion that you don't want a discussion. Instead you only want to continue making the only point you have, and to cast aspersions about ATS.

Here is a summation of every post you've made in this this thread. You've insulted the staff, the owners and the members alike - solely because they don't agree with you.

Well the topic here isn't just about you. The topic was about the board as a whole and the problems it has encountered over a period of time, and still continues to encounter.

Given what I've seeen and read of your posts, I can't actually find a good reason to respond to your questions. Why? Because I know full well that I'll be talking to a brick wall. They will just bounce off and you'll continue to spout the same stuff over and over. Hell, I even know already that your reply will be some sarcastic retort aimed at making out that the board is against you, or you'll raise a complaint saying that I'm being unreasonable, or you'll claim that the reason I'm typing this is because my argument doesn't stand up. Seen it all before, really.

So whats the point. Really? Why waste mine and your time anymore?

Oh, by way, I logged in at 07.04GMT

Originally posted by eyeforalie
OK. Good point OP. We'll all be sure to watch for that in the future. Thank you for bringing that to all of our attention. As well as pointing out the previous fact, the OP also mentioned the correlation between this and the threads related to ceritan topics being closed. So what is the real issue at hand?

This issue at hand is this.

Sometimes, arguments are provoked - for the sake of it - in order to allow a flurry of posts to pile in attacking the integrity of the site.

The arguments that are put forward during those attacks centre on claims that ATS is COINTEL, or that it is some form of experiement, or that it has "sold out" (I'm still not sure what that means BTW, because the members generate the topics), or that the mods and owners manipulate conversations etc.

When those subjects are provoked they invariably end up in a breach of the T&C that gets the thread closed, which is then perfect fodder for the detractors to stick the boot in, by claiming that they have been "repressed", or had their "freedom of speech removed", or that ATS monitors, or that ATS places spyware/trojans etc - none of which is true, but is easy to claim and damned hard for the site to disprove.

And yes, you'll get disgruntled people making such claims in haste if they get their wrists slapped, but what I'm talking about is different. Its arranged, designed and attempts to get maximum impact in negativity about the site.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Frankie, the topic here isn't about drugs. Thats being done elsewhere.

The topic is to do with organised efforts to disrupt ATS. If I wanted to make a topic about drugs, I would have done so.

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by neformore
...but what I'm talking about is different. Its arranged, designed and attempts to get maximum impact in negativity about the site.

To what end, do you think?

Personal revenge? Competitive reasons? Special interest influence?

Just curious.