Predator spy planes now being tested in southern california area

If anyone is interested they have reopened a section of George Airforce Base in Victorville, Ca for test flights of the predator spy planes.
My friends dad is in airforce and he runs a lot of the testing for these things and let me know so be on the lookout if you want to see any.

I know my opinion on this puts me at odds with a lot of the members here, but I want to say that your friend's dad should not have told you that and you shouldn't have repeated it on the internet. Now I'm not saying that this was classified information or there is anything special or secret about these tests, but as a rule the operations of military units or squadrons shouldn't be advertised widely. I'm sure your friend's dad got a briefing at some point in his career about OPSEC, so he should know better.

As for you repeating it, I know you don't think that's a big deal because you believe in the free flow of information and you want to share something cool with your friends. But not everyone on the internet is your friend, and in fact some of the people who read this forum have dedicated their lives to promoting the interests of a foreign nation or ideology that would love to end our way of life.

Okay, I know it doesn't seem like the end of the world that someone would find out about some tests going on, especially since you didn't tell them any details about the testing, specific times or plans, etc. But if by chance someone out there were looking for a "meaningful" military target to hit, you just gave them a great idea about where to show up and what to look for.

I'm not trying to over dramatize, so let me just say that I'm pretty sure nothing bad will happen because of this one post. All I'm trying to say is that the idea of broadcasting anything and everything you know about military operations can be harmful even if you don't have a security clearance and don't know anything that is classified. I recommend you use discretion in the future, by all means if there are some local friends you want to take out with a pair of binoculars to try to see some planes, then go for it, but telling the entire internet is almost never the right thing to do.

Speaking of making yourself an easy target, I realize I've just done something like that myself. Go ahead and flame on about freedom of speech and how I'm a government shill and all that, I don't mind. But somewhere in the back of your head, realize that OPSEC is there to protect you, not to hold you back or hurt anyone.

I disagree somewhat, I don't think predator spy-planes would make any kind of significant target and have no objections to the OP informing us.

So which part of the military do you belong to mtmaraca?

Thanks, seangkt, for the heads up!
in the news

I will be watching for any. When I jump off my quad to "water" the desert plants, I always think how exposed I am to a google satellite. Now I'll have to contend with a Predator. Gotta look up now, besides around.

When my husband and I sit around a campfire, and an aircraft flies overhead, we joke that we hope a heat seeking missile doesn't accidentally set off.

The timing of the flights and the routes may be controlled information, but the existence of the flights is not. My uncle had them going on literally in his backyard recently. I found out completely by accident when I was going to visit him and was looking to put together a list of frequencies to listen to in my scanner. I was doing an FCC General Menu Reports search online, that anyone can do, and sure enough there were multiple licenses to a government contractor, complete with tons of supporting documents, showing everything from pictures of the UAVs to the frequencies that they would be sending the information back to the ground on.

So I would not worry about posting what you did...thanks, it is interesting to know this is going on in more place than one

Originally posted by therainmaker
I was doing an FCC General Menu Reports search online, that anyone can do, and sure enough there were multiple licenses to a government contractor, complete with tons of supporting documents, showing everything from pictures of the UAVs to the frequencies that they would be sending the information back to the ground on.

Be careful rainmaker, you are now a suspect as per the above post because you are monitoring U.S. military frequencies, you might inadvertently overhear a C-17 Globemaster that's been dispatched to pick up a 4 star General's mistress, they might have to take you out man.

The drones being tested has to happen some where. Best thing to do, would be to use them along the border to keep an eye on things with Mexico getting out of hand.

A cartel monitoring task force might need to be initiated, try and interdict any movement that can prevent incident from crossing over again.

Last thing we need is more of the Phoenix Arizona happening else where and more frequently.

The fact I was told about the planes being tested is not a big deal.
I know this because I've known this man for 15 years and what hes not allowed to tell he wont.
I know a lot about the man and I know he cherishes his job and wouldn't put it at risk by letting his sons friend know of testing if it were a secret.
The predator spy planes are a known about aircraft nothing top secret but I do appreciate your concern.
Now what those predator spy planes catch and listen to and how they actually test them is something I don't know anything about, all I've been told is that i would be seeing them fly around.


[edit on 1-3-2009 by seangkt]

reply to post by seangkt


If you re-read my post, you'll see that I agree that telling you was no big deal. I even said that you repeating it on the internet would probably not lead to anything bad happening in this case. What concerned me (that you don't seem to appreciate) is the flippant nature of your post and the possible consequences of that kind of carelessness if it caught on with others.

The simple truth is that, in general, planned military operations (including upcoming tests) shouldn't be advertised unless the proper officials have reviewed the situation and approved the release of the information. It's best to leave such matters to a public affairs officer or similar official.

Whether you want to admit it or not, friends and relatives can easily pick up on information that is neither classified nor particularly revealing, but when combined with various other sources of information can present a significant security risk. That is the kind of stuff the I am worried about, whether this specific case falls in that category or not. I don't think it's wise to be so overconfident as to think that since it doesn't seem sensitive to you, it won't be important to anyone else.

So once again, as a general rule, if it involves military operations, it's one thing to tell some friends or go check it out yourself, but to broadcast it across the internet is probably not the best way to go.

Originally posted by Jack Jouett

Originally posted by therainmaker
I was doing an FCC General Menu Reports search online, that anyone can do, and sure enough there were multiple licenses to a government contractor, complete with tons of supporting documents, showing everything from pictures of the UAVs to the frequencies that they would be sending the information back to the ground on.

Be careful rainmaker, you are now a suspect as per the above post because you are monitoring U.S. military frequencies, you might inadvertently overhear a C-17 Globemaster that's been dispatched to pick up a 4 star General's mistress, they might have to take you out man.

Okay, I was just reading and enjoying the posts, but I felt compelled to type...I don't know why.

My question.....exactly how big is this chick to need a C-17????

I would really like to know who you think you are telling people what they can and can not post on the internet. your post is authoritarian B.S. You are telling me that the most powerful, most well funded military on the planet might be threatened by a public comment on a public discussion board? What a crock. Nice going, you're making the predictions of Orwell's '1984' a reality.

By the way, you didn't answer the question on if you work for the military or not.

The parent company General Atomics is based in San Diego, and have in the past used the high desert area for testing.

No big secret. From what I understand they are going to be using them as part of the joint security force the US military is sending up to Vancouver for the 2010 Olympics. If you're in town, im sure you'll see a few of them flying around, patrolling for bad guys and other security threats.

Originally posted by Jack Jouett
I would really like to know who you think you are telling people what they can and can not post on the internet. your post is authoritarian B.S. You are telling me that the most powerful, most well funded military on the planet might be threatened by a public comment on a public discussion board? What a crock. Nice going, you're making the predictions of Orwell's '1984' a reality.

Yeah this is the kind of the response I was expecting when I made my original post. I know there are many people who disagree with me on this. On a forum like ATS, where most come to satisfy their voyeuristic desires with regards to secret programs, naturally most are going to want to know what other people know or think, and that's fine. I'm certainly not trying to stifle all of the fun speculation, etc.

Let me just point out that nothing about what I have said supports an Orwellian "Big Brother" society. I believe in personal freedom and privacy, but I also believe in protecting our men and women in the armed forces by providing them the best possible tools and strategies to employ. This means keeping secrets, be they about a new fancy weapon or simple things like troop movements or supply routes. The idea of OPSEC is to protect members of the armed forces by denying their enemies information they could use to their own advantage. If you don't believe the US military has enemies, or that those enemies actively use the internet for intelligence gathering, than you're being naive.

Just to clarify again because this is a sticky issue, I'm not saying this specific post is so out of line, just that the idea of openly discussing upcoming military operations is bad in general. I'm also not saying you absolutely can't do that, but doing so may put our military at greater risk. If that's what you want, then fine, but I think it's bad, and I'm not afraid to say so.

Originally posted by Jack Jouett
By the way, you didn't answer the question on if you work for the military or not.

And I'm not going to. It's not relevant to the discussion, and I'm not here to discuss my personal life.

I'm sure your friend's dad got a briefing at some point in his career about OPSEC, so he should know better.

He should know OPSEC, indeed.

He should know that saying that a bunch of UAV's are going to a particular airport, does NOT violate OPSEC.

[edit on 3/3/2009 by C0bzz]

Originally posted by mtmaraca

Speaking of making yourself an easy target, I realize I've just done something like that myself. Go ahead and flame on about freedom of speech and how I'm a government shill and all that, I don't mind. But somewhere in the back of your head, realize that OPSEC is there to protect you, not to hold you back or hurt anyone.

Protect who from what?
The only enemy is the one within yourselves!
What´s the real idea behind keeping people in the dark and who decides what´s best for me and the rest of the population? folks that are afraid of their own shadow? Not likely...

Originally posted by C0bzz

He should know that saying that a bunch of UAV's are going to a particular airport, does NOT violate OPSEC.

Too bad there's not a "straw man" smiley. He didn't say that a bunch of UAVs are going to a particular airport, he said that test flights were occurring. This isn't a semantic difference. Anyone can see if aircraft are taking off or landing at a place, but their mission is not always so easy to discern. Stating outright a military unit's purpose for being at a place *may* be giving away sensitive information.

I emphasized the word "may" in that last sentence because again, as I've said in every one of my posts in this thread, it's not clear to me that this specific case is a significant breach in security or not. I just don't have enough information about the operation to know if it matters, but just the fact that someone posted about an upcoming event like that set off red flags in my head, so I posted about my feelings on the matter. I stand by my initial assertion that, in general, posting on the internet about upcoming military operations is bad, and it should be left to an authorized official who better understands the possible consequences of the release of specific information.