Soldier doubts ( Obama's) eligibility, defies president's orders

reply to post by riggs2099


For some reason, I hear a sound when I read this post...I believe its the sound that a truck full of vinegar and a truck full of water makes when they collide on the highway.

I don't care that Obama is prez, as long as he's constitutionally eligible to do so. For every thread that is placed up here supporting that, there is one that discounts it too. So there in lies my issue. Produce factual, undeniable and unaltered proof.

Ya know, when someone is caught lying...about anything, one of the first arguments they use is, "this isn't worth my time". Well that's kinda what the Obama camp is doing. They say they are all for transparency in government but won't give a satisfactory answer to the people who keep asking the same question. I'm not saying he WAS born anywhere other than the US, but I'd like to GUARANTEE that he wasn't.

reply to post by midnightbrigade


Why do you care so much about seeing his birth certificate? Doesn't he seem American enough to you people?

I think you're just looking for a conspiracy here where there is none.

The birth issue is only part of the matter. His passport applications and college applications state he is a citizen of Indonesia (his mother remarried because Obama Sr. was married with children at the time he married Obama’s mother). His was adopted by his stepfather and his legal name became Barry Soetoro. He attended primary school in Indonesia. Indonesian law requires that students are Indonesian citizens. I believe his adoption of the Soetoro name also made him an Indonesian citizen by operation of Indonesian law.Indonesia did not allow for dual citizenship in those days, and certainly not until 2006.
To make matters worse for Obama, there is no evidence that he ever took the oath of U.S. citizenship upon reaching the age of 18, which means he was never naturalized as a U.S. citizen, (i.e., he is an illegal alien)!
The birth certificate said to be his–never produced in original form for inspection–is alleged to be his sister’s. I believe the hour of birth and/or the hour the certificate was created is identical to his sister’s, the odds of which are almost impossible. Also, the certificate number is redacted on the copy posted on Obama’s website. There is also an issue with certain language in the certificate that was not used by the state of Hawaii the year Obama was actually born, but was in use when his sister was born (and it’s not the “African” “negro” race description, which is yet another anomaly highly indicative of a thoughtless forgery by a member of the current generation).

Obama has also identified himself as an Indonesian citizen in college applications as well as when he traveled to Pakistan after college. And the fact that when Obama traveled to Pakistan and India in 1981, it seems that no US citizens were allowed, by order of the US State Department, to travel to either of those two countries at that time.
Whether or not Obama was born in Honolulu he still lost his citizenship when he lived in Indonesia for five years with his mother and his step-father ackowledged him so he could attend school there, which only citizens of Indonesia could do.

reply to post by HomeBrew


A star for you!!!!!!

Many of the people that come to this type of threads to talk about rights and duties has never served in the military or have any darn knowledge of what a soldiers duty is all about.

As a former Marine wife (my husband is retired now) I know what those duties and alliances are, so for those soldiers that supposedly are challenging the President, they will be charge and is nothing any lawyer can do about.

So if they didn't want to be in hot waters they didn't have to join the military, after all the last time I check it was still voluntary service in this country.

People need to get a reality check.

Originally posted by Masterjaden
what about both rep and dems being controlled by the same people do you not understand????

Jeez people need to pull their heads out of their ass..

Speaking of people needing to get their head out of their behind...

Let's suppose the Republicans and Democrats are controlled by the same people, and these same people orchestrated the non-natural-born-citizen (even though he is one) Obama attaining office, instructing their pawns within the parties to ignore the fact he is not a citizen. Then what possible hope do you have ranting and raving demanding he produce his birth-certificate and trying to have him removed from office? Isn't it a pointless endeavor?

Originally posted by Masterjaden
...but the oath he took was to support and defend the consitution of the united states against all enemies, foreign and domestic, if a foreigner has usurped the station of commander in chief, then he is an enemy of the constitution and the military's responsibility is to defend the constitution against him...

The real enemies of the Constitution are those who wrap themselves in it to disguise their racism, lack of patriotism and un-American attitudes, who would abuse it and twist it to usurp elections to satisfy that same lack of patriotism, same racism and attitudes.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
For some reason, I hear a sound when I read this post...I believe its the sound that a truck full of vinegar and a truck full of water makes when they collide on the highway.

Funny, I hear the same sound when someone brings up the made-up birth-certificate issue.

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Ya know, when someone is caught lying...about anything, one of the first arguments they use is, "this isn't worth my time". Well that's kinda what the Obama camp is doing. They say they are all for transparency in government but won't give a satisfactory answer to the people who keep asking the same question.

Because, no matter what those who push this issue will never be satisfied. The argument of "this isn't worth my time" is also used when someone telling the truth knows the truth will not persuade fanatics. Why waste your time when you know your efforts will be for not?

Originally posted by 5thElement
This is beyond unbelievable...

Since when soldiers have rights to question orders ???

Even a soldiers is a citizen first. Thats really what this is all about.

Originally posted by YHSBtard
Hey man whyh is everbody hatin on Obama just cuz he won the election, GET OVER IT! McSame lost and Obama won and he born in the US. So peace.

Because the guy can't prove where he's from. His birth certificate does not match other birth certificates born in the same year as he. It was not signed by an official and most of if not all of his family reside in other countries. I can see why this may have angered the citizen, and is it not our right to question the authority of the government? We are all human, no one is above the other, and just because their in a seat of power does not give them any more moral rights to life than somebody else. So yes - I am right there beside that soldier in this. He has a right to stand up for his beliefs and ideas, and so do I. So be thankful that someone out there is doing this for you - the results of this mans case will show who's really in control. Is it the people, or the governing for the people?

Cross your fingers, and hope all is well.

CM

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
For some reason, I hear a sound when I read this post...I believe its the sound that a truck full of vinegar and a truck full of water makes when they collide on the highway.

Funny, I hear the same sound when someone brings up the made-up birth-certificate issue.

Originally posted by midnightbrigade
Ya know, when someone is caught lying...about anything, one of the first arguments they use is, "this isn't worth my time". Well that's kinda what the Obama camp is doing. They say they are all for transparency in government but won't give a satisfactory answer to the people who keep asking the same question.

Because, no matter what those who push this issue will never be satisfied. The argument of "this isn't worth my time" is also used when someone telling the truth knows the truth will not persuade fanatics. Why waste your time when you know your efforts will be for not?

I don't believe that.

If they gave legitimate proof of his birth in Hawaii, there is no possible way anybody can continue on to say that he's an illegal. Simple as that. Yes you can say they'll look for more ways to prosecute him, but thats the same for any relationship where someone is disliked! Continue to dislike him - am I not right? But if he comes out with legitimate, provable, proof Like i said then they cannot keep saying the same thing and it would end alot of issues.

How would proving it hurt Obama, what is he waiting for? - Exactly. Thats why people are so worked up about it, the more or longer he waits in satisfying his country, the more the suspicious talk will increase. This is his doings, and he's being ignorant if he doesn't try to fix it.

This soldier will not be the last.

This is beyond stupid now.

There's like 10 different threads about this, one of them with 20+ pages. All these arguments have been put forward before, and refuted.

You either haven't read them, or you choose to ignore them.

Take your argument about his Indonesian nationality, sueloujo.

Originally posted by sueloujo
His was adopted by his stepfather and his legal name became Barry Soetoro. He attended primary school in Indonesia. Indonesian law requires that students are Indonesian citizens. I believe his adoption of the Soetoro name also made him an Indonesian citizen by operation of Indonesian law.Indonesia did not allow for dual citizenship in those days, and certainly not until 2006.

It may be the case that in Indonesia Obama was seen as an Indonesian national, but that doesn't invalidate his US citizenship, even though Indonesia didn't allow dual citizenship.

Why do I say this? Well, because according to US law parents cannot renounce the nationality of their minor children. The fact that Indonesia didn't allow dual citizenship is of no importance whatsoever, because US law doesn't care!

Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, Section 349

(a) From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as a result of a naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fith birthday

To make matters worse for Obama, there is no evidence that he ever took the oath of U.S. citizenship upon reaching the age of 18, which means he was never naturalized as a U.S. citizen, (i.e., he is an illegal alien)!

Gotta love the reasoning of "since there's no evidence it's true!". Reminds me of the Religious arguments for the existence of God.

Despite what might have happened in the past Obama is currently a US citizen. He also had to be a US citizen for at least 9 years to be a US Senator.

So on one side we have all these federal and state agencies not disputing or even supporting the idea that Obama is a natural born citizen, was born in Hawaii, and on the other side we have... "there is no evidence".

The birth certificate said to be his–never produced in original form for inspection–is alleged to be his sister’s.

Alleged? In the United States, a nation of laws, you have to prove your claims to make them right. Alleged falls under the category of hearsay, that is really all that 'your' side has, and is not admissible in a Court of law.

I believe the hour of birth and/or the hour the certificate was created is identical to his sister’s, the odds of which are almost impossible.

Another important point: you believe. People may believe whatever they want, it doesn't make it right. All that it matters is what you can prove, and as of now, I haven't seen your side prove anything.

Also, the certificate number is redacted on the copy posted on Obama’s website.

Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said the blackened portion is a department file number that was redacted to prevent hackers from breaking into the Health Department's system. - The Honolulu Advertiser

There is also an issue with certain language in the certificate that was not used by the state of Hawaii the year Obama was actually born

State officials have said Obama's certificate is valid.

And the fact that when Obama traveled to Pakistan and India in 1981, it seems that no US citizens were allowed, by order of the US State Department, to travel to either of those two countries at that time.

Show me the evidence. What is your basis for this?

I await your links to the State Department's list of Countries you couldn't travel to in 1981.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by converge]

Originally posted by HomeBrew
Despite your long winded, condescending(at times) and mostly opinionated post, the fact remains that orders are to be followed, period. This is not hollywood, and in my millitary, even in basic, orders were to be followed without question. They were not guidlines or subject for interpretation.

SHOW ME! SHOW ME WHAT ARTICLE IN THE UCMJ INSTRUCTS AN ENLISTED MAN E1 all the way up the chain of command that when an E6 give's that E1 and order to give him fellatio, he should "follow that order without question!"

I'm not sure what you were or what you did, but when orders are given, seldome does one have time or the availability to determine if they are against the bylaws of the "Geneva Conventions and so on".

Then you should find out and since I know unequivocally you are talking like a wannabe MP , SP, or, you have been watching too many re-runs of JAG.

We obviously had different expierences in our armed forces, but mine were outlined with following orders without question. I suppose if you were a office duty clerk or a officer things may be different, but for the working class of the millitary, orders are to be followed without question. This is something instilled in every enlisted member of a fighting force within the united states.

Would you tell me who it was that gave you that garbage or I am going to have to assume when someone gives you an order to line up a bunch orphaned children in a trench and your given an order to kill them all, you would be STUPID enough to do it because AS YOU KNOW,, YOU HAVE GOT TO OBEY ORDERS!!!@!

MY ASS!

I don't even believe you were in the military because that kind of thinking doesn't come from brainwashing, but just for my own edification,, I'd like to ask you,,

Did the bag say "Paint chips"?

Yeah uh huh.

The Geneva Convention is an “agreement” among sovereign nations (but only those nations who actually are signatories) as to how to conduct wars between and among the armies of these sovereign nations. As such, it deals primarily with rules pertaining to combat (e.g. no .50 cal fire against troops in the open but unlimited .50 cal against hard targets) and the treatment of Prisoners of War.

POWs under the Geneva Convention enjoy no “rights” and have no “entitlements” but rather their country has agreed with the other signatories as to how prisoners are to be treated.

The clear understanding is that these agreements pertain to soldiers in the ARMY of a sovereign nation making war against soldiers in the ARMY of another sovereign nation.

Terrorists are not soldiers serving in the army of a sovereign nation. And no terrorist organizations are signatories of the Geneva Conventions. Terrorists are indiscrimate killers of women and children.


Now, can we please stop referring to the President as the “Commander in Chief”? He is the CINC of the _armed services_ which 99% of Americans have never joined. To us, he is simply our President, not our Commander — the President is supposed to listen to the people, not dictate to them, our government is of the people, NOT a military junta!

Barack Obama is NOT my Commander-in-Chief. He is simply my President.




www.steamboatpilot.com...

[edit on 25-2-2009 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by ConMi27
His birth certificate does not match other birth certificates born in the same year as he.

The certificate he has posted on his website is not from 1961, it's from 2007.

It was not signed by an official and most of if not all of his family reside in other countries.

You might want to have a look at this.

Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp

Well I used to be an Obama supporter (not even American) until I realised hes just more of the same. I would be interest in his birth cert because his past is so obscure. So saying people are just racist in wanting to see it is wrong. As for Obama Nation...

"The book alleges Obama's "extreme leftism", "extensive connections with Islam and radical politics", "naïve...foreign policy", past drug use and connections to corrupt backers, among other things"

...could be written about Bush!! Replace 'left' with 'right'!

Seriously we need more soldiers questioning motives. Make 30 grand a year to kill civilians so the rich can get richer... there better be a damn good reason

reply to post by 5thElement


since they became free thinking individuals ? i would rather have soldiers questioning there orders if they ever come after innocent people.

reply to post by Masterjaden


Actually, the soldier will end up in a court martial. Read the oath carefully for the part about "and the officers appointed over me."

Let me tell you how this is going to go down for that soldier...


When I was serving, there was a high ranking officer on a ship being interviewed by a local news station on something bill Clinton, at that time, recently did. This high ranking officer simply offered his opinion as to the situation and it came off a bit negatively towards the president. Within 1 month, he was busted down to a mid level enlisted. He had been in service for 19+ years and with less than a year to go, they did that to him (for reasons other than relating to the interview of'course..).

But it did not stop there....

A few months later he was "accused" for stealing from the base RX and without evidence, found him guilty, sentenced to 1 month in the brig then dishonorablly discharged just months before his 20 and lost his pention. Not to mention the few months he served as an enlisted were hell on earth for him, getting blasted for everything and anything he did by any superior that just happened to be around that day. I actually knew this fellow and he was a good guy who just said the wrong thing to the wrong people and it ruined his life.

And all of this was just because he said something slightly negative about something the president did. So what is going to happen to the soldier in question? As long as he did/does not actually dis-obey any orders, he is most likely doomed to be busted down and blasted for every and any little infraction everyone and anyone can or do make daily. They will make his life a living hell till something sticks and they can dishonorably discharge him.

If he actually follows through and dis obey's any order, he is going to be court marshaled, and eithor dishonorably discharged or serve some brig time before hand. Eithor way, this soldiers boot's are somewhere no one would want to be from this point on.

doubble post...

[edit on 25-2-2009 by HomeBrew]

tripple post, wtf?? :/

[edit on 25-2-2009 by HomeBrew]