Is America heading for communist realitys? "Nationalization"

reply to post by hosta420


Marx is not saying here that nationalisation will ultimately lead to communism.

Did nationalisation during nazi Germany, or Mussolinis Italy, lead to communism? No, it was fascism from beginning to end and lead nowhere else. Nationalism is a part of fascism, not socialism.

No, what Marx was talking about was a planned progression to communism, that he thought needed the capital created by capitalism to fulfill. He envisioned going from capitalism to socialism to communism, using what was their present capitalists system to finance it. But of course this never happened, Russia remained a capitalist country.

BUT, big BUT, not all socialists even agree on Marx's definition of socialism.
His was a compromise of state, democracy and communism. But most modern socialists are non-authoritarian, and just want the power in the hands of us all, as apposed to a wealthy elite working to their own benefit.

Nationalism is...

'The government ownership of the means of production'

Socialism is...

'The workers ownership of the means of production'

Anything else is just the opinion of the author, or political group. How this is implemented should be left up to the workers themselves, once they have control over their lives.

Marx was just ONE interpretation of this definition. A socialist society could even be capitalist in theory, even though traditionally socialism was the workers opposition to capitalism.

You have nothing to fear, if we truly were becoming socialist then YOU would have the power, not the government or private entities.

Yes you should fear nationalism, but you are being irrational to conclude that socialism will follow. If anything follows nationalism it would be a dictatorship.

Go learn what socialism really is, you have nothing to fear from it and everything to gain if you're one of the majority of the worlds workers.

Surprise, surprise ....... yet another Socialism/Nationalism thread.

Jeez, this gets dammed boring.

reply to post by Wotan


ATS is not a dictatorship, no one is forcing you to read or reply to threads you find boring. That's why ATS gives you many choices of topics to choose from, if you don't like any of them make your own...

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by Wotan

 

ATS is not a dictatorship, no one is forcing you to read or reply to threads you find boring. That's why ATS gives you many choices of topics to choose from, if you don't like any of them make your own...

This is a CONSPIRACY website not a political debating society ........ go figure!

Dears,

Even didn't want to get into, the last comments forced me to.

I'm from Romania, a country free from communism lately and I think I know about socialism/comunism a thing, or two...

Dears, the issue of communism/socialism is not an issue of intellectual debate. Is a matter of life and death. Is a bunch of people, up there, nobody elected to get there, which are saying what to do, when to do, how many children you should have, what to think and how to think. If you disagree with them with a slice of bit, they would trow you in jail, supposedly for re-education.

People, please do not speak crazy things, if you do not know. People were tortured and died in horrific pains and ended insane, just because their neighbour hated them and make complain to authorities that that fellow is aginst the regime, or something. It was a society in which you should always KEEP YPOUR MOUTH SHUT. Even walls have eyes and ears, they said.

In the last days, before the anti-communism revolution, the communist party wanted to disable all the food shops and food markets and all people to be forced to eat in canteens, where they would eat "healthy" and within the Part prescribed calories.

People if you do not know, please do not speak. Are you aware how you would live with 1 hour of warm water per day? With 1 TV channel for 2 hours a day, all the emission informing about what he did, the Head of State?
Did you people, waited in queques for hours, just to buy a piece of bread or just a bottle of oil? Did you get at home, tired, cold like hell and tell your spouse and terrified child, that YOU WERE NOT ABLE TO BUY NOTHING FOR FOOD TODAY? I think not and as long are people alive which suffered those and even more, people have a moral duty to not speak so lightly about those things.

So, to make clear for you guys, SOCIALISM=COMMUNISM=NAZISM=FASCISM =TYRANNY. Doesen't matter who, in the end, held the property of production means, regardless if that small elite is a socialist party, or a communist party or nazist party. The problem with the current great democracies, is that they are not anymore free, or defending the right of majority. Right now, even these, are undermined or seized by a group of uber wealthy banking elites, which are playing all the banking, economics and money issues in the world.

So, the difference between now in US and communist countries is that whatever they've done overtly to us in communism, are doing to you, occulted, let's say. We know we were in a prison, while you think you are free! And what is the worst, if you not keep informed yourself, not digging the truth, regardless what paid mass-media is saying, not wake up becoming aware AND IF NOT STICK WITH US CONSTITUTION, you are doomed and together with you, all the world, as we know it now.

So, to be clear, all the world will be heading to a TOTALITARIAN state, where an elite will choose your clothing, will bread your children, will give what to eat and say when to die, because not anymore useful for "SOCIETY".

All the stages of communism/socialist/fascist and dictatorial regimes, were just tests to get all the information useful for how to keep the masses in submission, how to startle a men against his neighbor and to create the final terror which will keep their endless empire alive.

If you like this future, then continue to "play intellectually" with notions of communism, socialism and after short time, when get outside from your room and away computer display, you will get a glimpse of it ...

Originally posted by Wotan

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by Wotan

 

ATS is not a dictatorship, no one is forcing you to read or reply to threads you find boring. That's why ATS gives you many choices of topics to choose from, if you don't like any of them make your own...

This is a CONSPIRACY website not a political debating society ........ go figure!

And you don't feel the us govt. attempting this, is not a conspiracy.

reply to post by Wotan


Yeah, politics and the government are a CONSPIRACY. They conspire with private parties to keep you in control, so 'they' can keep exploiting your labour for their gain.

The capitalist system is a CONSPIRACY. TPTB conspire to control you, through economic slavery, in order to maintain, and increase, their positions of power.

go figure!

Communist States have never been established by "Nationalization" of Banks, or Industry or whatever; Those were the ends, but not the means. Bloody revolution was the prerequisite in Russia, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Cuba etc. Granted that was 70-60-50 years ago, so I doubt this will occur, atleast as a Communist takeover.

I would be more concerned with the attempts of the Democrat- controlled government to abolish the 1st Admendment at the behest of the ADL. THIS is how Communism could re-emerge. The precursors are already showing....A Menora on the Whitehouse lawn instead of a Christmas tree,
31 Jewish members of the House and 14 members of Senate in the 111th Congress, ADL trying to impose "Hate Speech" laws..........

In case you didnt know, Anti-semitism became a capital offence as soon as the Bolsheviks took over Russia. I hope the members on here are conspriacy theorists enough to look into these points a little more.....