U.K. freedom under threat.

Hi ! Here in the u.k. the powers that be are hard at work trying to undermine two of the cornerstones of a fair society , namely , innocent until proven guilty and the hippocratic oath . Does nobody care ? What's going on ?

reply to post by longdog


Heres whats going on since you asked.

A small minority have led us to the water.

The shore is coming in very soon.

Figure the rest.

Adds a whole new meaning to "run for the hills" if you really understand what I am saying.

Time to pick your shepard.



[edit on 9-2-2009 by XXXN3O]

sounds like the rehasing of anti terrorist laws to me not sure of the hipicratical oath is though could you please explane thank you

The Hippocratic oath (named after Hippocrates ) is the promise that newly qualified doctors make to do their utmost to preserve human life .

reply to post by foxhoundone


the hipocratic oath is the oath doctor take

news.bbc.co.uk...

At the time of being admitted as a member of the medical profession:
I solemnly pledge to consecrate my life to the service of humanity;
I will give to my teachers the respect and gratitude that is their due;
I will practise my profession with conscience and dignity;
The health of my patient will be my first consideration;
I will respect the secrets that are confided in me, even after the patient has died;
I will maintain by all the means in my power, the honour and the noble traditions of the medical profession;
My colleagues will be my sisters and brothers;
I will not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;
I will maintain the utmost respect for human life;
I will not use my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;
I make these promises solemnly, freely and upon my honour.

en.wikipedia.org...

this is the current one in the UK, so my question would be whats it bieng changed to, to make it bad? it been changed and revised many times since the greeks first said it so simply changing it wouldnt necesarily be a bad thing doctors dont have to study up on thier greek gods anymore so they know which greek god they are swearing to for which part of the oath

What bothers me is the attempts to legalize assisted suicide . I was watching a newsclip a while back where a severely ill woman had just lost her case in the high court to be allowed to "die with dignity ". The media gave her the microphone but her words were totally impossible to make out. Her husband then took the mike and said "What my wife is saying is thank you for your support ....etc." I had this horrible thought , what if she was actually saying was "they are trying to kill me !"

ok thats cool thanks for the reply guys, so what is this about you dont think theres somthing awsome coming up like a change in govt policy toword,s terrorism/trade unions or anything like that...

We no longer have a right to a jury . Local govt. , traffic wardens and police can dish out fines with threats if you question them . All you seem to get in reply to all this is the old chestnut "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear "

i suppose freedom is an absolute.

if you have a big brother state, no rights to property, etc, you aren't free anyway.

the us is far from free.

reply to post by longdog


I am curious on how you are mixing the hipocratic oath and assisted suicide together. I suspect that most UK doctors will do nothing to support or encourage an assisted suicide so keeping in line with the hipocratic oath, which is NOT part of any laws in the UK.

I am in favour of people having the right to end their lives when they wish too. Would you keep a member of your family, such as a pet, alive as long as we keep some humans alive? No, because if you did, the law would after you for cruel treatment, yet we do this to humans.

reply to post by longdog


That's not true in the slightest. It's what they want you to believe, but it isn't true. The fact you believe it to be so shows that while you're happy to moan about losing your rights, you don't really know what they are in the first place. This country is full of people like that....

English Common Law supercedes ANY Act of Parliament and cannot be overridden by ANY Act of Parliament. The English constitution guarantees trial by jury, if so desired. It also gurantess the right to be free from fine or forfeiture without a trial.

The issuing of Spot Fines by anyone, let alone the Police, is only legal because you allow it to be. You have every right to refuse and have your case heard in court, as defined by the Bill of Rights 1689.

reply to post by longdog


I have to talk about the Hippocratic oath here. Others in this thread have pointed out the fact that it has been changed many times but skipping over that i have to ask what is wrong with assisted suicide. Have you ever suffered a serious illness? One that is going to kill you but it is going to be long and protracted? Have you ever known someone with such an illness and talked to them daily as they often falter in their speech because they get stabs of pain?

Have you ever watched someone writhing in agony from liver cancer? Breathing with a horrible rattle? Have you ever had them look into your eyes and ask you to kill them? I have. I didn't do it because i couldn't bring myself to kill someone but i have seen the anguish, agony and indignity of someone in that situation. After seeing that i fully support legalised euthanasia.

Imagine if you were in terrible pain, pain like torture. You had no life and were often soiling yourself and having to be treated like a baby. All the while having an adult mind and crying out of shame as someone wiped your backside like you were a damn baby. Are you telling me you would happily endure that situation? Or woudl you wish for death to come and take you? I know i would rather die than have this happen to me. I have often told family if i had such a condition and it was incurable i would kill myself while i still had the ability to do so.

Yes i support legalised suicide. Doctors are meant to stop suffering and if the patient wants to avoid that suffering i completely support it.

The assisted suicide issue is a topic where rarely anyone changes their opinion so I won't even try to change yours . The supporters of assisted suicide do NOT have a monopoly on pain and suffering but like to use it as a point in their argument . All I know is that I would rather live in a world where you are free to kill a dying loved one but are breaking the law in the process , than in a world where state killings and sometimes murders take place . Who knows , it might be you next .

I think this time I'll have to side with ImaginaryReality1984 I fail to see anything wrong with ending someones suffering if that's what they wish If the doctors can make it painless for them they should I see it as kinder.

Of course no Doctor should ever be forced to but I'd like to see them have that option of course there would have to be checks and balances in place and the decision couldn't rest solely with the Dr and patient.

As for the innocent until proven Guilty I don't believe they can change that anything else would make a mockery out of the law and probably be the first step to a revolution no one should ever be presumed guilty without evidence.

I was working in Belfast last year and it struck me how much it felt like the mainland 20 yrs ago . I can only assume the changes here will come your way soon. Officials here are queing up to punish you with threats of greater penalties if you appeal . The outrageous speeding laws are an example . As for assisted suicide argument , all the safeguards were in place when we had capital punishment and look what happened . Love to Belfast (my favourite city ).

reply to post by stumason


Practice and reality are far too diverged in our society.

I tried doing what you suggested in your post to avoid a speeding fine; ended up losing the case and got done for £1000.

My route was probably more moral for me; but next time I'm just going to pay and slink away like the coward I am!

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by longdog

 

Heres whats going on since you asked.

A small minority have led us to the water.

The shore is coming in very soon.

Figure the rest.

Adds a whole new meaning to "run for the hills" if you really understand what I am saying.

Time to pick your shepard.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by XXXN3O]

I was just lurking around and I just had to quote the above post...

I dont expect an answer but my question is WTF????

With all the domm and gloom Im meant to be facing I should quit my job, buy a tent, move to a secluded place, and live off the land..immediately. Funny that I have a feeling nothing that would make that necessary will happen in my lifetime

I am highlighting that a lot of people are following the wrong paths.

Where did I mention, quit your job, buy a tent, move to a secluded place, and live off the land..immediately?

Take what you want from it.

Thats TF



[edit on 12-2-2009 by XXXN3O]