What is with all the "Christianity-Debunking" attempt threads?

reply to post by moocowman



Hate is a strong word...
What else do you hate besides what Christians do?
There is a lot of really bad stuff in the world...like child molesters, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, etc...do you hate any of those peoples actions?

It is easier for those below to pull those on top down, than to rise to their level. That is why the Emerging Church is forming (C. Peter Wagner and Rick Warren's house of idolatry). It is easier to disobey the first three Commandments and have "peace" by denying that Jesus Christ is the only Way to the Father and eternal life, than to obey the Great Commission and actually go out and disciple the lost; which includes turning them from their false gods towards the one and only God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Not of Mohammed.

Temporarily safer too.

Originally posted by burntheships
reply to post by moocowman

 

Hate is a strong word...
What else do you hate besides what Christians do?
There is a lot of really bad stuff in the world...like child molesters, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, etc...do you hate any of those peoples actions?

When you say there is a lot of bad stuff in the world in response to my sig, I take it you mean there is a lot of "other" bad stuff in the world or is "bad" just an opinion?

Yes hate is a strong word, and to be honest yes I do hate the actions of many of those you quoted, don't you? Are those actions not to be hated, I would assume you also hate those actions, if not why not ? If you are an xtian I would assume you equally hate the actions of the homosexual as much as the others as per biblical example.

Interestingly enough, if the bibles are to be taken as historical documents, then the earliest examples of hate come from the Yahweh/jesus god itself.

reply to post by TNT13

BUT ALL MEN AND WOMEN OF SERVICE WHO CLAIM TO BE PART OF A RELIGION THAT STATES QUITE CLEARLY THAT MURDER IS INEXCUSABLE, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN KILLING SOMEONE THEN CONTINUEING IN THE CLEAR HYPOCRICY OF YOUR OWN RELIGION; AS I STATED EARLIER CONFESSION IS MEANINGLESS IT DOESNT RETURN ONES LIFE.

Hang on, do you mean to tell me that xtians actually volunteer to join the armed forces, the sole purpose of which is to kill other people ?

Clearly then there is no difference between an xtian bomber and an Islamic bomber, they both appear to be taking their fight to the others country.

makes you think doesn't it ?


Does it make any sense to pay for soldiers that are supposed to kill the enemy,when they could turn the other cheek in the heat of battle.
Are we to take seriously those we entrust with national security when they believe they could be raptured at any moment ?

reply to post by moocowman


Great point and the point I'm trying to get at, christianity has an insane double-standard. A previous poster tryed to point to the fact that jesus says "murder" not killing which is ludacris in it self. Absolute hypocricy.

Originally posted by SumnerKagan

Christianity seems to be assaulted more than any other belief system on this site.

It all goes hand in hand with the rampant anti-semitism that riddles our membership, the pro-Palestinian stance, and the defence of Islam as a "persecuted faith".

I just think that it's symptomatic of a lot of our membership's core beliefs about everything traditional being bad, and anything new wave or radical being good.

Odd as it may sound, many consider the Muslim faith to be trendy, much as with those people who keep rattlesnakes as pets.

These are just some quotes of people that do not favor religion enjoy:

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Carl Sagan

If you want to get together in any exclusive situation and have people love you, fine - but to hang all this desperate sociology on the idea of The Cloud-Guy who has The Big Book, who knows if you've been bad or good - and CARES about any of it - to hang it all on that, folks, is the chimpanzee part of the brain working.

Frank Zappa

Religion is a by-product of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?

Arthur C. Clarke

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

Albert Einstein


Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth."

H L Mencken

A lie is a lie
even if everyone believes it
The truth is the truth
even if no one believes it.


Anon


That the world is in a bad shape is undeniable, but there is not the faintest reason in history to suppose that Christianity offers a way out.

Bertrand Russell

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God
who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

Galileo Galilei

I count religion but a childish toy,
And hold there is no sin but ignorance.

Christopher Marlowe


It is usually
when men are at their most religious
that they behave with the least sense
and the greatest cruelty.

Ilka Chase

Religion is not merely
the opium of the masses,
it's the cyanide.

Tom Robbins


It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me,
it is the parts that I do understand.

Mark Twain


The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence.
It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty.

Stephen Hawking

I condemn false prophets, I condemn the effort to take away the power of rational decision,
to drain people of their free will - and a hell of a lot of money in the bargain. Religions vary in their degree of idiocy, but I reject them all.
For most people, religion is nothing more than a substitute for a malfunctioning brain.

Gene Roddenberry


Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.

Robert G. Ingersoll

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.

Bernard Shaw

Hope everyone can grab something from all these quotes, extremely famoous people and people to me that hold more credibility than any man of religion. Because these people have done what the priest has no... LIVED LIFE~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Against Religion - Quotes

reply to post by burntheships


a quote that may or may not trouble you:

That the world is in a bad shape is undeniable, but there is not the faintest reason in history to suppose that Christianity offers a way out.

Bertrand Russell

reply to post by VelmaLu


Exactly.
A Christian saying that we have free-will is like a slave owner telling his slave that he has free-will.
"You can run anytime you want. I'll just shoot you in the back..."

But with God it's:
"You can choose to disobey me. I'll just torture you forever. AND ever. AND ever. Such is my ego..."

In what way is it free-will if we get tortured for making what we believe to be the right choice?
And that's even ignoring the fact that no one can have free-will when there's an omnipotent and omniscient being in the building.

I wish more people would look at the reality of things instead of the pretty pictures which society paints for us.

reply to post by TruthParadox


I've enjoyed everyone one of your posts, you have a great way of conveying your information without seeming to emotional. This subject is very hard to talk about with people of religion because it's basically like they have been brainwashed, and brainwashing takes a while to go away... if ever.

reply to post by TNT13


Thanks.
I understand the indoctrination because I was once part of it.
I try to bring to light the arguments that got me thinking when I was a Christian.
Still, I've found that almost no one accepts an opposing argument unless they've thought of it before or are already accepting their doubts.

It's like if you were to throw a rope out to someone in quicksand and they seem to take no notice of it. Then, some time later, they randomly say "Hey look! There's a rope!" and pull themselves up.

This is why I only set the ropes down. I use to try to pull them up, but realized it's a waste of time.

Originally posted by TNT13
reply to post by TruthParadox

 

I've enjoyed everyone one of your posts, you have a great way of conveying your information without seeming to emotional. This subject is very hard to talk about with people of religion because it's basically like they have been brainwashed, and brainwashing takes a while to go away... if ever.

I hear what you are saying.. but I can honestly say that if one is willing to walk through "hell"... they can escape the brainwashed views. I was raised in the Christian views since my earliest memories and though I did walk through terrifying uncertainty, I came out on the otherside with a much clearer view that is ever developing.. though no longer from fear, but intense Love for the brilliant process I have found myself in.

I know there is a G.d... but I hold very much to the same view that Albert Einstein held to as it is the most logical. "G.d may be subtle, but He is not malicious." When I learned that questioning did indeed exist for an intended purpose, I found great comfort in knowing the difference between chastisement and punishment. One is given out of Love and the other is given to control through fear. The first is action/reaction based and the latter is do/or else. GREAT COMFORT in coming to know G.d works the former way rather than the latter. Religion, as it was intended, works the latter rather than the former... and thus, I ran from religion.

reply to post by justamomma


Nearly the same view of life, I am a spiritual man but that spirituality ends at madness, the way I like to put a spin on it. I full heartingly understand what you mean and it's been my problem as a small child as well, I was a confirmed catholic and decided to stop going to church around 15. The single fact I think people miss is that it isn't your title that matters but what your title doesn't say that truely presents you to god. If everyone believed in the karmic circle of life one wouldn't be willing to create any wrong doing for fear of the equal coming back at them. People react in this life only because there isn't conciquence till death, and for some such as christians confession offers a way out during life making wrongful deads much easier to do. Hopefully the world will become enjightened someday... someday.

We belive in love, a selfless act or feeling that we cannot see. Much like your faith keeps you live love keeps people alive. We as a group of people have found that and no longer need to have faith in a man we have never seen. Christianity has also been the cause of many wars if you can look back into history and until recent years information like this was never known by many people. The bible was not allowed to be read by the common man until the last 50 years. Its just in our human nature to question and state that we are finally free from the people who have always kept us in line. Telling us stories and reading from one of 60 books found in the bible instilling fear so we can assend into heaven. If i could explain to you that you will still accend to the stars regardless of what you choose be it good or bad.... would you still be the great caring person you currently are? The Muslims and The Jews know PENALTIES for bad actions. Christians claim to ask for forgivness and the wrold keeps going. Jewish and Muslim religions are the oldest religions on earth.

I personally don't care what anyone's god belief is. Stay home - go to your church - close the door behind you.

Simply: stay out of my - Science - Schools - Government - Legal System - Foreign Affairs - Civil Rights - Marriages - etc.

I want no trace of your god belief forced on me and my life in any way.


And Yes! I do have my own Creator belief.

reply to post by TNT13

Nearly the same view of life, I am a spiritual man but that spirituality ends at madness, the way I like to put a spin on it.

I agree! I was religious and a former Christian. I was until I could no longer take the hypocrisy.

Where everyone has a tendency to go wrong with the Bible, is not recognizing that it had tremendous influence from religious scribes and leaders in its translations.

It was so easy for them to add and take away from the Bible, and I might add...quite effectively. They could control its masses by pointing out scriptures about how God will destroy, mutilate etc., man at his whim.

But...how much of it was truly accurate? Have we been duped? IMO the religious and the atheists are both extremes. Are both wrong? How about the Truth lying somewhere in-between?

Originally posted by TruthParadox
...
But with God it's:
"You can choose to disobey me. I'll just torture you forever. AND ever. AND ever. Such is my ego..."
...

His ego? HIS ego?! "Pot-this is the kettle. You're black."

If you make a chair, does it get to tell you who can sit in it? If you build a house, does it get to tell you who can live in it? If you build a car, does it get to tell you who can drive it?

You see, it's arguments like yours that show that logical thought needs to be taught in schools again.

Are you REALLY arguing the following: "If there is a God, and IF he created humans, then he has no justification in telling those humans how to live"? That's your argument? Do you realize how logically ABSURD that argument is? Nowhere in our entire existence has the thing that was MADE gotten to tell the MAKER of said thing what he may do with the thing.

Illogical, absurd thinking like this, and people wonder why our country is going down the tubes?



[edit on 12-2-2009 by sir_chancealot]

reply to post by justamomma


Why is it that in your text you follow the tetragrammaton skipping of vowels in the name 'G.d' but in your sig line you use them spelling 'God'? I was taught that YHWH was translated by the Masoretes with vowel pointing using the name Adonai just to avoid misusing the tetragrammaton, which led to the Enlish - Jehovah (JHVH). I'm not sure of the source of the name God for God but it seems rather peculiar that you stick to this (like many Jewish people) even though God is not the Hebrew name for I AM.

Also, you speak about your Christian heritage with such despair. What was it that led you to become a proselyte? Many Jewish converts that I know convert because of marriage, plain and simple. It's not that they had any particular religious convictions; rather, they're just trying to get along with their new in-laws. Was your conversion the result of great study, a spiritual epiphany or the latter reason?

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

Where everyone has a tendency to go wrong with the Bible, is not recognizing that it had tremendous influence from religious scribes and leaders in its translations.

Thank you. Its something I keep saying.

Ancient scripts (written by man) were translated by scribes who had a strong god belief. Then they hand selected the compilation. God(s) are a creation of man to explain what he does not understand.

Where are the translations by science and those of clear thought?

reply to post by Annee

Where are the translations by science and those of clear thought?

I guess the ultimate God would be the God of science. At least it makes sense to me. I don't romanticize God as religion does. Yet, a consciousness that shows indifference? Possibly. I have had direct influence by this consciousness and know He exists, but I had to redefine who He was, once I left religion.

I have become real adverse to boxes! They aren't comfortable and limit ones movement. The combination of this God of science and Creator (as you mentioned) allows for more movement!