WE are the Aliens & We ARE alone.

Many here are touching on what is most likely the way things are if space faring aliens are real.

Time travel would be one of the least likely events to cause this. To be able to continually manipulate the future by going into the past is something that would create infinite strings of the future, and you could just as easily destroy the future as help it, so there is no way to tell what to do. Even doing something like killing Hitler when he was young could create a future where we are just a wasteland, so changing things in the past that are either good or bad would have uncontrollable changes of future events. Also,traveling into the past would make it impossable not to chance the future too.

As in my first post I put forth the fact that to have life throughout the universe is very likely and probably not uncommon on planets that are in the right position to support life, but this is life and not space faring life though. When you start to put forth requirements the chance for that type of life becomes rare. So when we say what are the chances for intelligent life with the capabilities to evolve into a space faring race, and able to advance to the point of traveling immense distances we see the chances for this to happn drop to an extremely rare event.

This basically presents a situation where space faring races will never meet due to their rarity and the immense size of the universe, so how can we have aliens around us. The answer is actually very simple and plausible in creating this situation.

The universe is around 15 billion years old and earth is about 4.5 billion years old, so there is an extremely small chance that one of these space faring races were able to evolve billions of years before the earth was a planet, and then seed other planets throughout their existence over billions of years. Because of this you would have one extremely rare race seeding many planets, including earth. Even with them being the basic model on each planet, that basic model would evolve into completely difference directions, as evolution tends to do, on each different world. We would then see many races with all having some basic similarities but also quite different since they all evolved on different worlds and all are in different stages of evolution from the time the planet was seeded.




[edit on 6-2-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina 42
There is absolutely NO way possible that another race in another galaxy evolved almost the exact same way we humans did.

No. #ing. Way.

on the contrary. most life that has and will evolve in the planetary dimension evolve very similar in many ways. for example - animal to sentient being to technological sentient being, etc.. planetary life will ALWAYS be faced with the crossroads of a holocaust by technological means mainly because the fight for every planet is against evil. most evolved life does not make it past this stage. and, because of the effects of gravity they will generally appear like humans in that they will ALWAYS be symmetrical.. typically bipedal, two arms, two eyes, etc..

i happen to have a great deal of insight regarding the grays that i have shared on this forum before so i don't want to rehash. in short, the grays are very similar in appearance to what we would look like we were forced to evolve for an extended duration underground with very little or no sunlight due to a nuclear holocaust.

[edit on 6-2-2009 by kronos11]

Originally posted by MR1159
reply to post by RFBurns

 

Ahh yes, but not all alien life is necessarily capable of interstellar travel. Just as all life on earth in not equipped to go flying.

When I say we alone, I mean alone in terms of our "ilk".

Did you read the papers the other day? Experts had been calculating how many planets could possibly hold life in our galaxy, and came up to the number of nearly 80 000? At a minimum, they estimated that there would be atleast 361 civilisations, with so called higly intelligent life.

Hi,

Sorry but yet another newbie.

Suggest you read Roger Barbour's 'End of Time' he's certainly no crackpot - and is recognised by his peers in quantum/comsology.

In short - there is no time, there is no travel - the universe is a a relative configurational space - all that is possible exists - period. Which nicely links with some religions :-)


PS Have read his book 6 times - it's hard going!

Peace!

reply to post by pikypiky


Very elegantly put. A simple idea confused by overactive imaginations and the human ego.

I find it ironic that people can quote "universal laws" and use analogies made from "grains of sand", yet when it comes down to it, how can we presume there is life out there as defined only by what we know as humans.

Why do so many people assume aliens would be human sized and have similar appearance to us? (greys etc)

I personally believe we ARE the only "life" in the universe as we humans define "it".

Isn't it great to be unique?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ps..pikypiky, I haven't forgotten about your new avatar.

I think China will win WWIII

and thus become the most common race on the planet.



then we evolve from there.

Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
I think China will win WWIII

and thus become the most common race on the planet.



then we evolve from there.

That would be interesting, as some have already speculated that Asians originally are aliens.


Second line.

reply to post by nerbot

I personally believe we ARE the only "life" in the universe as we humans define "it".

Isn't it great to be unique?

You're not unique. There are millions of people in this world with old self-centered views like yourself.

People like you are the reason governments are afraid to tell us that they've made contact with other world beings.

Such news would affect your core beliefs and you'd probably jump out of your window in panic and shock.

With all due respect, open your mind, put aside your arrogance and self importance, and look at the bigger picture here. If there is a creator behind this gargantuan universe, he certainly didn't create this entire universe just for you or the corrupt human race, get real.

Originally posted by Majorion
reply to post by nerbot

 

I personally believe we ARE the only "life" in the universe as we humans define "it".

Isn't it great to be unique?

You're not unique.

There is only 1 "ME".

My universe exists because of me. No me, no nothing.

We are 6.5 billion individuals each with our own universe.

People like you are the reason governments are afraid to tell us that they've made contact with other world beings.

You cannot prove that. (people like me.. )

Such news would affect your core beliefs and you'd probably jump out of your window in panic and shock.

Or I'd just laugh very loudly!

How can you presume to know my "core beliefs"?

With all due respect, open your mind, put aside your arrogance and self importance, and look at the bigger picture here. If there is a creator behind this gargantuan universe, he certainly didn't create this entire universe just for you or the corrupt human race, get real.

My parents were my "creator".

Don't mistake personal opinion and self belief for arrogance and importance.

You seem to need a reason to exist in your life rather than just be happy to "be".

I believe many things are possible, but I go with what I've seen, felt and experienced until new revelations grow my perspective and open up new possibilities.

To fool yourself into thinking you know someone is ignorant. Good luck with your little box my friend. How many sides does it have?

Mine has 2......cheers....nerb

Originally posted by Majorion
With respect, that's quite a preposterous and arrogant hypothesis.

Do you really believe that with the billions upon billions of solar systems, that we are actually alone in the universe?

Wreaks of a self-centered view, in which Earth is the center of the universe. We aren't that significant compared to the bigger picture with all due respect.

Majorion good post
When you speculate that a recent German super computer has estimated there could well be an incomprehensively mindboggling 5000 billion galaxies in the universe (each containing 10 to 100 billion stars) then I think the idea that we're the only ones is pretty absurd.

It seems there may be at least 40,000 planets in the Goldilocks zone just in our galaxy alone:

Researchers have calculated that up to 37,964 worlds in our galaxy are hospitable enough to be home to creatures at least as intelligent as ourselves.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I always liked this quote:

"To consider the earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet,only one grain will grow"
Methodorus.
Greek philosopher of the fourth century B.C.

Cheers




[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Nightchild

Did you read the papers the other day? Experts had been calculating how many planets could possibly hold life in our galaxy, and came up to the number of nearly 80 000? At a minimum, they estimated that there would be atleast 361 civilisations, with so called higly intelligent life.

And how many of that 361 could physically leave their planet for you could have intelligent dolphins or other creatures that would be physically incapable? And how many of that smaller number would want to travel into space or continue their technology in that direction? How many of the 361 with the physical capabilities to build actually make it past the point they do not destroy themselves.

The number for how many space fairing races gets rather small to maybe a few or even less.


Life on other planets is just that, life, and we could be talking about mold here. To start to say intelligent life with the capabilities of space travel we are looking at a whole new ballgame.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by karl 12

I always liked this quote:

"To consider the earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet,only one grain will grow"
Methodorus.
Greek philosopher of the fourth century B.C.

Cheers

What are the chances of grain on another planet? That is more the question...

Earth is a gem of a world because everything just happens to be perfect in supporting life. Its size, distance from the sun, atmosphere, water etc. are all in perfect balance for a world where life is in abundance. It is like earth won the galaxies Power Ball lottery, but even with Earth being as good as it is, after 5 billion years of evolution it was able to make only one intelligent life that might have the capabilities of space travel. I say might for we are not there yet….

In the 80,000 other worlds that may support life how many are as perfect as earth? And how many might produce an intelligent species? And how many of those species will be able to physically leave their planet.

When we are dealing with 15 billion years, for one perfect gem of a world to make one intelligent life that can also build after 5 billion of those years do you really think there are aliens around us?

reply to post by MR1159


Yes, I see what you are saying and of course it is possible. One day we will have to leave this planet provided a) the earth and all lifeforms are not completely wiped out by some cataclysmic event eg impact with a large asteroid or self destruction through nuclear war etc, or b) we are able to develop technology far enough to enable us to leave this planet and inhabit other parts of space. incidentally, the latter assumes that there are inhabitable places elsewhere in the universe and if this is the case, perhaps they're already inhabited?

Ok, now the cracks are starting to appear. Skeptics normally state that the biggest problem extraterrestrials would face should they want to visit Earth would be the distance they would have to travel. Well, if mankind is to become capable of procuring a new home on some distant planet, why are the ETs unable to visit earth...are we better than them? You are also of the assumption that time travel is possible...perhaps it is and in a couple of thousand years it will be as common as jetting off on your holiday but, at present we have no way of knowing if or when it will become reality. It's another unknown quantity.

I am sure that our airspace is being infiltrated by craft of an origin other than Earth (as we know it) and I think the most likely scenario is that they are extraterrestrial. There has to be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe! If their technology is say, 1000 years in advance of ours then anything is possible.

Another thing we have to remember is that mankind is only just scratching the surface of understanding the laws of physics which apply to Planet Earth and our very close neighbours. Perhaps one day we will understand the workings of different dimensions and have the ability to manipulate space and time. I believe the possibilities are endless.............

For now I will keep an open mind and I will continue to gaze into the heavens in the hope that one day I will be witness to indisputable evidence that we are not alone.


MH

reply to post by Xtrozero


Xtrozero - I should wish to have elucidated as well as you on the prospects of a space-faring race in existence.

I think maybe is was John Barrow (going from memory; happy to be Google-Whipped by somebody out there) who elegantly hypothesised that the most likely form for an alien to take would be that of a kangaroo. To think that life would evolve into anything resembling human form is really quite far fetched. And to think that these kangaroo-aliens then choose to travel to other stars in their kangaroo-spaceships is starting to sound equally far fetched.

Yes; there may be a high probability that "life" is extant somewhere else in the cosmos. But there's life, and there's life as we know it. There is a big difference.

Just my opinion...

reply to post by MR1159

To think that life would evolve into anything resembling human form is really quite far fetched.

No it's not "far fetched".

Scientists are only now starting to discover more and more Earth-like planets; where biological evolution may be similar to Earth. Ergo; humanoid lifeforms other than humans is a high probability considering the amount of star systems in the universe.

Armchair researchers

Originally posted by Majorion
No it's not "far fetched".

Scientists are only now starting to discover more and more Earth-like planets; where biological evolution may be similar to Earth. Ergo; humanoid lifeforms other than humans is a high probability considering the amount of star systems in the universe.

Armchair researchers

Hmm, I think Hawking says it quite well..

He suggests that there is life but intelligent life would be rather rare, and spacefaring intelligent life might be even unique.

It is more likely that evolution is a random process, with intelligence as only one of a large number of possible outcomes. It is not clear that intelligence has any long-term survival value. Bacteria, and other single cell organisms, will live on, if all other life on Earth is wiped out by our actions. There is support for the view that intelligence, was an unlikely development for life on Earth, from the chronology of evolution. It took a very long time, two and a half billion years, to go from single cells to multi-cell beings, which are a necessary precursor to intelligence. This is a good fraction of the total time available, before the Sun blows up. So it would be consistent with the hypothesis, that the probability for life to develop intelligence, is low.

In this case, we might expect to find many other life forms in the galaxy, but we are unlikely to find intelligent life. Another way, in which life could fail to develop to an intelligent stage, would be if an asteroid or comet were to collide with the planet. We have just observed the collision of a comet, Schumacher-Levi, with Jupiter. It produced a series of enormous fireballs. It is thought the collision of a rather smaller body with the Earth, about 70 million years ago, was responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs. A few small early mammals survived, but anything as large as a human, would have almost certainly been wiped out. It is difficult to say how often such collisions occur, but a reasonable guess might be every twenty million years, on average.

If this figure is correct, it would mean that intelligent life on Earth has developed only because of the lucky chance that there have been no major collisions in the last 70 million years. Other planets in the galaxy, on which life has developed, may not have had a long enough collision free period to evolve intelligent beings.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Xtrozero]