Reeling, the GOP Turns to Joe the Plumber for Advice

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I can't help you with that.

As Bad Dog previously pointed out - I haven't ask for your help. I don't need your help. My understanding of the situation is just fine. Crystal clear.

Your choice of these words is transparent.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Loam, unless you can name specifically what facts I supposedly "made up", your charges are meaningless.

I've already done that, but if you insist I do so again....

*sigh*

You titled this thread: "Reeling, the GOP Turns to Joe the Plumber for Advice" and repeat the claim in the body of your post.

As I've already explained, the Tuesday morning breakfast meeting of lobbyists and staffers is NOT the GOP. In fact, aside from the fact that they are 'conservatives', I can find no evidence that they are an official arm of ANY KIND for the GOP.

Next you regurgitate the Gerber food nonsense that JTP was an 'adviser', when I clearly presented you with the ORIGINAL SOURCE ARTICLE from Politico that is the basis for all of the other editorialized garbage appearing elsewhere. Politico's article on this entire subject was based upon a single email:

“In case you weren’t planning to attend CWG tomorrow morning, you might want to reconsider because Joe the Plumber will be joining us!” Kimberly Wallner, an aide to South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint, wrote in a message to her e-mail list this afternoon.

Even Politico didn't say JTP was advising the GOP. They appropriately narrowed it to "GOP-ers." BIG DIFFERENCE. And even though they converted "joining us" into "advises" in their title, all they really had was JTP's participation in a single routine Tuesday morning breakfast of a few staffers and lobbyists.

So if you prefer to continue sucking on that spoonful of pre-masticated, pre-processed, manufactured set of 'facts', have at it.

I prefer a healthier diet of facts.

[edit on 7-2-2009 by loam]

Hasn't that Jackasses 15 minutes of fame expired already?

It really shows how lame the GOP (Grumpy Old Politicans) have become...

... I swear gag me with a southern baptist.

Like "Joe" has anything intelligent or vital to say.

Originally posted by loam
You titled this thread: "Reeling, the GOP Turns to Joe the Plumber for Advice".

And as I have already explained, that was the title of the linked article. I didn't "make it up" as you charge.

As I've already explained, the Tuesday morning breakfast meeting of lobbyists and staffers is NOT the GOP.
...
I can find no evidence that they are an official arm of ANY KIND for the GOP.

They are Republican staffers. I don't claim they are "an official arm of the GOP". That came from you.

Next you regurgitate the Gerber food nonsense that JTP was an 'adviser'

Your issue is with my source. And in fact, Joe DID advise the group on several issues. Whether they invited him there for that purpose or he took it upon himself to make that part of his talk, he did advise them. Again, I did not make it up, as you charge.

Thank you for clarifying, but clearly, you are crediting me with (A) information found in the article, (B) specifics that I never stated and even (C) your own assumptions, none of which I have "made up" or stated as my opinion, much less stated as "facts".

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic




So your position is that it's ok to regurgitate the misrepresentations of an article as long as they are not YOUR express misrepresentations?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't claim they are "an official arm of the GOP". That came from you.

Aren't these your words???

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The GOP, desperate to reconnect with the "common man"...

(emphasis supplied)

Is there no integrity left in your postings?



[edit on 7-2-2009 by loam]

Come on now people..

Let's keep this friendly and on topic.. Please???

Semper

[edit on 2/7/2009 by semperfortis]

reply to post by grover



Well, Joe IS a celebrity, and who wouldn't want to have a celebrity at their morning meeting. Maybe their meetings are, like, totally boring events. Maybe they needed a pep talk. Maybe Joe is just what that group needed!

Look, how many of you have ever had to organize an event for which you thought turnout might be low. To wit, from loam's post
“In case you weren’t planning to attend CWG tomorrow morning, you might want to reconsider because Joe the Plumber will be joining us!” Kimberly Wallner..."
Good for you, Kimberly to score this coup!

This news is really a how-to about energizing your meetings in order to have members attend. Joe, hey, you got any openings for next Thursday? We're trying to get our Mommy and Me group going again.

That's a very good point, actually. He's not who I would choose, but if it brings in members, it's all good. Like you said, he is a celebrity and apparently some people are taken with him.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes, BH, we must give them a pass on this. In fact, I think we should find it in ourselves to feel sorry for them. The Republicans had to trot out Sara Palin (who is now a celebrity) to boost their base. In fact, if David Duke has his way, well, this could be the end of the party.

We will either take the Republican Party back over the next four years or we will say, “To Hell With the Republican Party!” And we will take 90 percent of Republicans with us into a New Party that will take its current place!

horse's mouth

Please, BH, leave Joe alone!! You know, I always thought it strange that Republicans cried foul about Hollywood celebrities fawning over Democrats, yet one of their own Presidents was a former Hollywood actor, and my Republican governor is a former actor. Must be like, are you a good witch or a bad witch?

Sometimes, one group's celebrity is the other group's anti-Christ.

Oh, the Mommy and Me group...I tried to get Sara Palin, but she said she would be busy in AK working. That's ok. A woman governor's place is in her home state.

Originally posted by desert
Please, BH, leave Joe alone!!

Oh, but it's so fun! Truth is, I don't really care about Joe the Plumber, The reason I started this thread (and I got into it a little in another post) is that I can actually see the Republican party splitting in two. Maybe the GOP and the Conservative party or something. I just think the ideologies of the Neo-cons and conservatives are too far apart to fit under one roof...

You know, I always thought it strange that Republicans cried foul about Hollywood celebrities fawning over Democrats, yet one of their own Presidents was a former Hollywood actor, and my Republican governor is a former actor.

Must be like, are you a good witch or a bad witch?

Its' never been about political party for me, but I know people put down Angelina Jolie and Britney Spears and even though I'm not really interested in them, I don't see why people hate them so much. Or any of the Hollywood types.

And I don't hate Joe the Plumber. Not at all. I just think he's a bit of a loser to be taking such a prominent spot in this whole political scene. In 2 years, no one will remember him. Unless he runs with Palin in 2012.

Sometimes, one group's celebrity is the other group's anti-Christ.

I totally agree.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The reason I started this thread ... is that I can actually see the Republican party splitting in two.

That's no where to be found in any of your posts until now. IF that's really the REASON FOR STARTING THIS THREAD, as you now claim, then why did you wait until the bottom of page two to say so? It looks like the purpose of this thread was just a thread to mock Joe the Plumber and to insinuate that he was somehow a 'leader' in the GOP, even though this wasn't even an official GOP function.

If you want to have a thread mocking him .. so be it. No problem.
But be honest about the purpose. We aren't stupid.

And I don't hate Joe the Plumber. Not at all.

Okay. Well .. you certainly don't like him. Your quote -

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
JT Plumber is an idiot and a pathetic, big-government loser) is my opinion and I absolutely stand by it.

I just think he's a bit of a loser to be taking such a prominent spot in this whole political scene.

As loam pointed out - he doesn't have 'such a prominent spot'.

Edited per a conversation with Chissler to verify - My husband posted - and I sat next to him and helped him with information on this side of the sceen as he posted - the names of those who are 'prominent' in the republican party. The REAL names of the republican leadership was posted. 'Joe the Plumber' is nowhere to be seen. Neither is Rush or Palin .. other names that you insinuated were 'leadership'.

And as far as the dems go - 'Joe the Plumber' was investigated and dragged through the mud by the disciples of 'The One'. They didn't like that 'Joe the Plumber' dared to question Obama. So other than his name being brought up during the election cycle (which ended over 3 months ago), and some over zealous disciples trying to dig up crap on the man, the dems have had no prominent role for 'Joe the Plumber'.

His 15 minutes of 'prominence' ended with the election.

In 2 years, no one will remember him.

You are contradicting yourself. You just said he had a 'prominent spot'.
Someone in such a 'prominent spot' (as you claim) wouldn't be forgotten
in two years.

Unless he runs with Palin in 2012.

The republican leadership has given a Palin 2012 run the cold shoulder. You have been told this before. Every republican leader who has recently been asked about supporting Palin in 2012 has backed away and given non-commital responses like 'we'll see who is nominated' 'we have a lot of talented people' 'who knows what will happen in 2012' ... You seem to be the only one - or one of very few - around here who are frightened that Palin could actually make a run of it in 2012. Most of the rest of us understand the situation and the reality that she would have a very difficult time of making it happen.


immediate edit to fix spelling



[edit on 2/8/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Truth is, I don't really care about Joe the Plumber

Neither do I. Though I can promise (as your posts obviously indicate) that you care about him a whole lot more than I do.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The reason I started this thread...

Yeah, like FlyersFan, I don't really buy that in the least.

BUT here's what I find most objectionable:

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
...I don't hate Joe the Plumber. Not at all. I just think he's a bit of a loser to be taking such a prominent spot in this whole political scene.

What elitist crap!

Imagine that...an ordinary citizen presumed to ask a question and challenge the positions of a presidential candidate and was thrust into the national spotlight- largely by the very people much like yourself that believed attacking HIM as opposed to his opinions was the best way to dispose of his presumption.

So in your view, JTP is a loser not just for his ideas, but because he isn't worthy to participate in the political process at a level you deem too "prominent".

I think that's disgusting.

It's viewpoints like yours that are building a frightening future for us. Why don't you just round up the JTPs of the nation and stick them in internment camps masquerading as free speech zones?

:shk:

[edit on 8-2-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The reason I started this thread ... is that I can actually see the Republican party splitting in two.

That's no where to be found in any of your posts until now.

It's right here. You must have missed it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Everyone knows the GOP is having some trouble after the recent election, getting their footing. Some strange things are happening in the party and I wouldn't be surprised if it split into two parties, which would be the best thing for this country. The GOP needs to return to its conservative roots or else fall apart. This is just a light-hearted story that speaks to that issue.

This thread was meant to be a light, somewhat humorous story that speaks to one of the issues in the Republican party right now. It's not an attack on the Republican party, though the defenses that have popped up indicate it was apparently taken that way.

Okay. Well .. you certainly don't like him.

No I don't particularly like him. I'm allowed not to like someone.

As loam pointed out - he doesn't have 'such a prominent spot'.

That's your opinion. And Loam's, apparently. It's a matter of perspective. He's certainly popular and in the public eye a lot. And millions of people know who he is and associate him with McCain and Palin. And he's got fan clubs and who knows what he is going to do to keep this fame going?

The republican leadership has given a Palin 2012 run the cold shoulder. You have been told this before.

I don't believe everything I'm told. She might run in 2012 or she might not. No one knows right now except maybe her. So, regardless what I'm told, I'm keeping an open mind.

And this editorial states that according to SuperBook.com's she is "the favorite" at 7:2 odds.

The only names ahead of Crist are Mitt Romney (4-1), Mike Huckabee (5-1), Bobby Jindal (6-1) and Tim Pawlenty (10-1). Sarah Palin is the favorite with odds of 7-2.

The book offers 4-5 odds that Barack Obama will be elected president in 2012, followed by Palin (10-1)
...
And for those of you looking for a long shot: You can become a millionaire if you’re willing to bet $10,000 that Joe Wurzelbacher, also known as Joe the Plumber, will win in 2012.

I guess Joe's a long shot for the presidency, though.

Originally posted by loam
I can promise (as your posts obviously indicate) that you care about him a whole lot more than I do.

I'm not so sure about that. You seem to have come to his defense in a very serious and personal way in this thread...

The rest of your post is completely assumptive and incorrect so I'm not going to address it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The rest of your post is completely assumptive and incorrect so I'm not going to address it.

Of course not, I didn't expect that you would.

It's easier to run, than to defend your ELITIST positions.

But don't expect me to do the same. If I should happen to notice where you misrepresent the facts, I'll be sure to point it out.



Yes, yes, I know.... "Grow up, Loam."





[edit on 8-2-2009 by loam]

reply to post by loam


I'm not running anywhere. I'm right here and have been all along. But you've made up a bunch of stuff and claimed it to be my viewpoints and then railed on about elitism, free speech and internment camps. It's WAY off-topic and quite insane. I'm not going to defend myself against a bunch of imaginary accusations.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I've quoted you all along.

Do the same. Where have I made anything up? I'm just using your words.

Good luck.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by loam]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Why can't we all just get along...without name calling?
I blame this phenomena on the likes of Pat Buchanan and his ilk. You see, they never got over the name calling that went on about Nixon done by the "elitist" intellectuals and godless, unpatriotic hippies.
Rush Limbaugh, the same way, with his creation of feminazis, for example. No, Rush goes much further, making physical fun of Micheal J. Fox.

These people have us believe that we are out to get them and put them in concentration camps and so they must fight the godless, unpatriotic, stinking, dope smoking hippies.

Man, if ever someone were stuck in the past ...Look, I may be paranoid, but even I'm not THAT delusional. You know, my sister and I used to call each other names and make fun of each other, but we grew up. I think Obama may finally drag this nation to the next level of maturity.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You must have missed it.

An off hand remark, that comes after your posts get whalluped and that is not even in the opening post or the post after, does not mean it's the intent of the thread. The title and the opening post mark the intent.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's WAY off-topic and quite insane.

hmm .. insanity. Doing insane things. hmmmm.... since you bring it up ...

Albert Einstein said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

A good example - insanity is electing a lawyer-politician with nafarious connections to the White House and expecting that he'd be any different than other politicians with nafarious connections who are elected to the White House.

Webster dictionary

1: a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia)

2: such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility

3 a: extreme folly or unreasonableness b: something utterly foolish or unreasonable

Extreme folly or unreasonableness - like insinuating that Joe the Plumber is a 'leader in the GOP' because he gets invited to a small non-GOP function. Yep. That'd be a good example.

Originally posted by desert
Why can't we all just get along...without name calling?

I know. Right? I don't expect everyone to be walking into the sunset hand in hand, rainbows and flowers, but some civility and maturity is called for. And it's really easy.

Very good points about the elitist label. I never considered that history.

You know, my sister and I used to call each other names and make fun of each other, but we grew up. I think Obama may finally drag this nation to the next level of maturity.

My sister and I did, too. Yeah, we got over it. About 35 years ago.

And I SURE hope you're right about Obama...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
An off hand remark,

A paragraph going into detail about the impetus of the thread in response to a comment about the thread being a "desperation story" is not "an offhand remark". I should know. I made it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't expect everyone to be walking into the sunset hand in hand, rainbows and flowers,

Oh, gawd, no! That's what some people thought would happen in Iraq after we "liberated" them, and look how that turned out!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And I SURE hope you're right about Obama...

Yes, he seems like he will set a tone of civility. Let us hope citizens will follow his lead.