Can Faith change the world for better? your thoughts please :)

Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura

There is no selfishness that is bad. You said it yourself «don't neglect yourself». This is a basic religious prejudice, which can easily be aimed at controlling others («This is for the greater good, don't be selfish!»).

The problem, in today society, is certainly not selfishness (nor egocentrism, nor individualism). It is, simply, complete insanity. People don't reflect, don't reason, don't analyze, and they cause problems, for everyone, themselves included, often immediately. How can it be selfishness, when you are just destroying yourself, and the rest of the world (where you are living in), in the process?

As for the rest, the idea of «service», notably «to others», and, even more, the idea of «union with everything» (the «all together» idea), are quite problematic, as far as individualism is concerned. Global peace is, of course, fundamental, but it is in no way, contradictory, to independence, which is even very good, for this global peace (which is, first and foremost, the peace of each one).

More importantely, it does not answer anything, as to what is positive, or negative, in this «service». You are only describing a process. What are these «living energies»? what is the «union with everything»? Where does this lead to? Why would you do this?

As most people who think a bit about it, you are still missing a few steps of reason, to properly anchor your ideas, in pure materialism. The text you quote, destabilize a lot, without much reason (which, again, can easily lead to vulnerability, and control, in reaction to the fear).

I would also like to add that those who use the term "the greater good" or "service to others" set up an impossible task of pleasing everyone except for themselves. They never define "the greater good" and what is less clear is the means by which the wish to achieve that goal. We have many records of history to what happens to societies that sacrifice the individual for the collective. Every time is has resulted in death of the body but more importantly, death of the mind. The only thing that is possible is to find your own selfish pleasure so that you will be happy.

Except for a few details (on origin, notably), a god (which sure is a belief among various others), can very well exist. If you cannot accept this possibility, you are only rejecting a possible truth. «Cause and effect», sure is not only «what you observe».

With regard to origins. There is no possible way to find out origins of earth or life unless we could observe it with our eyes. But, and this is a big but, that does not give us an excuse to answer those questions without reason or logic. Which sounds more reasonable: An omnipotent being who created the earth in seven days, less than 10,000 years ago, who later writes a book which is full of contradictions which nobody seems to understand. Or that the origin of life was a gradual step by step process and with each progressive step life became more and more fantastic.

Just to note, I am not totally convinced by evolution as it is mans first attempt to use reason to answer the question of origins. But having said that, it is much more reasonable than any faith based answer to the question of origins that is based on no reason, no logic and no evidence.

You can well consider, without believing in it.

Absolutely. See previous answer. But certainly more consideration should be given to those ideas that are based on logic and reason.

This was the end of a sentence (sorry for my long parenthesis). I said you were *believing* in the impossibility of absolue possibilities (that is, you have prejudices, and erroneous beliefs, as negating an absolute belief, is erroneous), to try to protect yourself from today religions (which, as I said, sure have nothing much to do with serious beliefs, and they generally even just contradict themselves, even fundamentally).

Thank you for clearing that up.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
I would also like to add that those who use the term "the greater good" or "service to others" set up an impossible task of pleasing everyone except for themselves. They never define "the greater good" and what is less clear is the means by which the wish to achieve that goal.

VERY COOL! Have never really given this much thought myself until this. I do agree that most of us don't take the time to define this.

For me, I would have to say that the "greater good" would include myself. Though I am not 'higher' than anyone, neither is any man/woman 'higher' than me. I will sacrifice all but the very basic of necesseties (though having kids, I am referring to if it were just me.. they deserve the MOST from me and therefore I will never sacrifice their comforts); but I will always use good judgement before giving up to someone.

Too many scammers out there!! I subscribe to ***MUTUAL*** respect and not "I am going to starve and sleep on the streets to give up to some lazy bum on the side of the road" servitude.

Anyway... good point to bring up, especially since most assume they have to degrade themselves to gain good kharma!!

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
[...] But, and this is a big but, that does not give us an excuse to answer those questions without reason or logic. Which sounds more reasonable: An omnipotent being who created the earth in seven days, less than 10,000 years ago, who later writes a book which is full of contradictions which nobody seems to understand. [...]

You are talking about a specific religion, while I am talking about reflected, reasoned, and analyzed beliefs (as said in my first reply to this topic). I understand «justamomma» was probably mostly thinking about today known religions, as most people who replied, you included, but her topic was general in wording, so I am talking about the general case (although I have still made clear, that today religions were indeed very problematic -well, as quite a lot of other ideas, of course).

... But that does not mean what you are describing, is strictly impossible. It is just very problematic, and often not really interesting, compared to far better stories. And of course, there is, for sure, a more materialistic reality, for the origin, whatever are the origins of Earth, and Humans (which is, anyway, strictly material, of course, as anything that is, possible gods included).

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
Absolutely. See previous answer. But certainly more consideration should be given to those ideas that are based on logic and reason.

Of course, and this is exactly what I'm saying. I'm just saying we can play with various interesting beliefs, and even rest on them a bit, all the while reflecting, reasoning, and analyzing, to try to really solve the problems, quickly, completely, and definitively (well, when there is really a problem, of course... playing with the idea of reincarnation, sure does not mean we should try to find immortality, to give a classical example...).

As I said, I'm really talking about «true» beliefs (as said, again, absolute possibilities, on which we can rest a bit, without negating reason and the other possibilities, which would be an error of reason, and as I also said, today religions indeed often contradict themselves in various ways, which is indeed very problematic).

And again, if you reject absolute possibilities, whatever their nature is, and whatever if they are interesting, or not, or even very problematic, you are only rejecting reason.

And of course, again, it does not mean you have to care about these possibilities. I'm just saying that negating these possibilities, is an error of reason, which can make you vulnerable, if any of these possibilities, were/became «real», and even if they were not, and never will be, you would still be wrong negating them, and wouldn't be able to feel completely conscious of the truth, because you would be negating part of it (absolute possibilities, uncertainty).

Originally posted by justamomma
The path to peace is so simple that it is far from us right now because people are not seeking simple.. they are seeking escape, recognition (often through useless knowledge that they think makes them *so* wise, yet foolish is all they are because the obvious escapes them; they can not grasp it), etc...

Just think of the why, the real root of it all, and you will be able to solve everything. Again, we can discuss this, in another topic, if someone wishes to discuss it now (I don't want to push it, it will be far better presented, later, elsewhere, far more globally).

[edit on 3-2-2009 by Senatsu Sakizakura]

Faith makes and maintains the world.
We no longer consider the world to be a product of faith.
We take it for granted.
But we have granted it to ourselves, through faith.
We also maintain it by faith.

Faith gives "substance" to things hoped for.
Faith brings "evidence" of things unseen.

Before the world was a "hope" to see the unseen.
Given faith, the unseen seemed to take on "substance".
What we see today is "evidence" of an ancient faith.

The kind of faith that makes the world is a "blind faith".
Before its substance became evident, the world could not be seen.
Reason is, it did not exist.
It still does not exist.
So,
It is maintained by faith.


If faith were ever withdrawn from the world, it would disappear.
If faith were placed in Truth instead, then the Truth would first be "seen".
Seen, the Truth would become our experience.
Experienced, we would open up to the truth: Truth is what we are.

We are Truth, regardless of faith.
All the faith that builds the world is a kind of unfaithfulness in Truth.

Before faith, there was no such thing as faith.
Before faith, there was only knowledge.
Knowledge does not require faith.
Knowledge is...and it is known with certainty.

Before faith, there was no such thing as *seeing*.
Knowledge does not require *sight*
Sight is evidence of ignorance [not knowing, interpretation, wishing].
It can be said truthfully, that each sees what s/he wants to see.
So, faith is first used for fantasy.
So, the world is evidence of a fantasy.

Faith eventually loses power.
That is, faith confuses us about our power-base.
We maintain our power, but we "lose" understanding of what or where it is.
We are using our power to maintain the world.
Yet, within the world, we seem weak.
This is the net effect of magic, which always weakens.

The genesis of faith is the genesis of uncertainty and doubt.
The genesis of uncertainty and doubt is the masking of knowledge.
And,
Without knowledge "the people perish".
Knowledge includes the knowledge of life.
When life is uncertain or doubted, there is the experience of death.
This is why "the people perish".

The phenomenon of perishing is a faith-full phenomenon.
So,
Initially, faith is a destructive tool.
Originally, faith is a tool of magic.
The net effect of its use is "the world".
Everything in the world perishes because it is entirely made up of faith without knowledge.

Faith needs to be converted to be useful for salvation from the perishing phenomenon of uncertainty.
Faith in Truth is faith converted.
Faith in pseudo-truth is more of the same...status quo.

So, before applying faith, let us be sure we are directing it toward the Truth.
Faith in Truth unmakes what faith made.
So,
Faith in Truth leads to the unmaking, or, washing away of the world of faith.
Faith in Truth leads to the experience of Truth.
The experience of Truth leads us the rest of the way to the Truth.
When we arrive at the Truth, we find that we are the Truth.

The Truth has never changed.
The world is the idea that the Truth can change.
The world is based on the idea that there are many truths.
This is the basis of chaos.
Laws arise out of the chaos to control the chaos.
All such laws are temporary, until the one Truth is accepted as the only Truth.

Christ!



[edit on 4-2-2009 by Christ!]

reply to post by justamomma


Well, how has having faith worked for this world thus far? This should be a no-brainer.

But, I suppose you want to separate "faith" from all the evils deeds religion has bestowed on us. Ok, lemme ask you this: Why do you even NEED faith to begin with? I would say that you only need faith when you are in need. You WANT to believe something is true but you have no evidence whatsoever of it. If you did, then you wouldn't need faith at all.

Faith is just another way of saying "trust me." As in, trust me, I heard it from somebody that heard it from somebody that heard it from someone that it is REAL! Just keep doing what is suggested and you will see, trust me!

The only problem with that is, do you trust the source of the statement? And what are the risks involved in taking such a huge leap of faith?

It says in the introduction to the Book of Enoch that some men were so desperate after seeing the world so overrun with evil that they cried out to the heavens for a savior.

I think that says it all right there and still applies today.

Can Faith change the world for better? No.

Until just recently, I finally was able to be more honest with myself. I looked up the definition of Faith.

Faith: Mental acceptance of and confidence in a claim as truth without proof supporting the claim.

Wow!

I realized what faith asks of us. Faith is not reasonable it asks of us to shun our God given reasoning abilities. Faith relies on our ignorance of fact. Faith becomes slavery to dogma. Faith lies and deceives us. Faith may even have become a satan and a devil. Heck, is the devil a personification of faith?

I used to think that my loosing of faith was a negative thing... Now I understand it isn't! I have replaced faith with fact and reasoning. I am a much happier person at this point.

As far as can faith change the world for better....my answer is still NO.

Thank you for this thread. I have been wanting to say that for awhile now.

For the day of the LORD of hosts shall come upon everything proud and lofty, upon everything lifted up - and it shall be brought low. (Isaiah 2:12



This is what faith can do....
I know because I have seen it work in my own life....
watch from 17:20 on if you don't want to watch it all...
but billy crone is a good minister

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by TheSingularity
Well, how has having faith worked for this world thus far? This should be a no-brainer.

Why do you even NEED faith to begin with? I would say that you only need faith when you are in need. You WANT to believe something is true but you have no evidence whatsoever of it. If you did, then you wouldn't need faith at all.

First, I would like to tell you, I have become quite fond of seeing your posts on this board... you are breath of fresh air even if we do not see eye to eye on everything. You bring up many intersting things that make us all think... and thinking is NEVER a bad thing!!

How has faith worked out for this world? Well, you obviously see the answer to that.

Let me define the difference between my faith and the faith of this world.

My faith is not a blind one. I am a very logical person and not led by emotions.. I had to have proof that there was a G.d and the EXTREME way by which that proof came about showed me not only was there a G.d, but I was of the chosen bloodline (astounded!). Now, my type of faith would be better stated as "faithfulness" ... meaning I have been given the proof that I asked for and thus I am faithful in what has been proven to me over and over and I personally submit to G.d and trust Him because I KNOW Him personally (literally.. not metaphorically).

The big difference comes in that I do not try to force what is Truth onto others since Truth is Truth regardless of if you believe it or not, and in fact, we are forbidden in the Tanakh to forcefully push our knowledge onto those who are just living; nor is it okay to hand out punishments and/or put fear, shame, or guilt on to those who are not part of the covenant. If and when someone wants to see the Truth, they will and if they do not.. the punishment does not fall on them.

Where I make an exception is for those who are declaring themselves to be children of G.d, and IF I recognize that they are correct by certain declarations they make that line up with the qualifications of the Tanakh.. to those, I will encourage and reprove; particularly when I see them leading others away from the Truth and ESPECIALLY toward a god that condemns with eternal punishment; the "chosen" of G.d (the ones under the Covenant as stated in Jeremiah) HAVE NO RIGHT to keep mankind under oppression. We are chosen to take the brunt of the punishment.. and NOT to condemn. It is a right, yes.. but the right is to take responsibility and not to oppress or condemn.

In regards to your second brilliant statement... you are precisely right! Kind of the point I wanted to get across. Religion should be tossed out. As I stated above.. truth is truth and does not need to be proven. I stated what I know above.. but that knowledge is not something I need to prove because it is truth and mankinds only role was to live life and experience. The covenants (except the one made with Noah) does not apply to all of mankind.

Part of why I started this thread was to say just that. If you are a child of G.d (whether you knew it or not), He will prove Himself to you. Otherwise, do not fall for the load of crap that is coming from the fallen children (any variations of christianity and the Zionist movement). It is their guilt that belongs to them and not all... they try to pull the rest of mankind into it to negate theirs and yet it will not. They exploit you all and it is wrong!!! It is not representative of the ONE True G.d. Our punishment for this has been declared and it is quite severe should it not be turned around.

G.d LOVES mankind, for they are His creation... THE ONLY covenant made with mankind was to never wipe them off the face of the earth!! (to the christians, muslims, and zionists, prove me wrong in the basis for all three monotheistic religions; the TAnakh).

The covenants with Israel are not as they have been corrupted to appear and I am so sorry to mankind for the oppression you have needlessly been put under.

Israel's covenants were made so that we would take the brunt of the punishments for mankind.

Ours was a covenant of responsibility, not rights. That requires no one's proof to mankind and it DEFINATELY does not mean believe or you will burn eternally.. No doubt in my mind that this will not continue since the prophecies made against us if we were obstinate are beginning to take place.

a. Acts 20:29-30--Paul said to the Ephesian elders, "For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Paul predicted that when he left Ephesus, doctrinal perversion would enter the church he had worked so hard to establish. The sad reality of apostasy eventually had a destructive effect on the church in that city.

b. 1 Timothy 4:1--"...in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons."

c. 1 Timothy 6:20-21--"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called, which some, professing, have erred concerning the faith...."

d. 2 Timothy 3:1, 5, 7-8--"This know, also, that in the last days perilous times shall come....[There will be those] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power of it; from such turn away....[They are] "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres [Egyptian magicians] withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth, men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

e. 2 Timothy 4:3--"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but, after their own lusts, shall they heap to themselves teachers...."

f. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15--"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."

g. Colossians 2:4-5--"And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I am absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ."

h. 1 John 2:18-19--"Little children, it is the last time; and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists, by which we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

i. 2 John 7--"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

Jude says, "You have heard Paul, Peter, and John had to say. They all said that apostasy is coming. Remember that, and don't be beguiled by it when it comes." If the Word of God warns about something, then when it happens, you ought to be sensible enough to reject it. Jude gives us a sample of apostolic scripture on apostasy in verses 18-19.

a. Scoffers (v. 18)

"...there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."

1) 2 Peter 3:3--Jude's statement is almost a direct quote of the Apostle Peter's condemnation of apostates: "[Know] this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts." The word translated "scoffers" in 2 Peter and the word translated "mockers" in Jude are the same Greek word. It is used only in those two places. Jude is quoting Peter, saying, "For example, just think of what Peter said, that there would come scoffers." Apostate false teachers are scoffers who deceive others regarding the truth of God's Word and its application to spiritual issues.

Peter goes on to say in verse 5 that scoffers are "willingly...ignorant." Apostates characteristically know the Word of God and willfully reject it. They have read and understood it, yet they deliberately reject it, holding it in mockery. They deceive others by posing as truly godly and authoritative teachers while they pervert the truth of God.

reply to post by unity1



Hmm.. that last statement is ironic considering you just quoted hellenistic viewpoints that had nothing to do with the Tanakh yet rest on the Tanakh for the foundation.

That is blind faith and since there is much condemnation and guilt heaping through those teachings... I'd say that is, in most cases, a very dangerous kind of faith. It is not about faithfulness to the Truth (and again, the Truth doesn't need to be accepted to be the Truth.. ex.. G.d IS good is a Truth that does not need to be accepted to be the Truth).. it is about believing something that has no grounds in truth and making others feel bad for not believing it. It is wrong and it DOES NOT line up with the Tanakh.

Ephesians 6:10-12 - Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Satan is real.
Unfortunately most people are convinced otherwise.
What is occuring now has been in the works for some time.
The vatican is currently working towards it's goal of a one world religion. A religion where you do not have to believe or follow Christ to be a part of it. They have not departed from the faith. They were never part of the faith. They are a stronghold of satan and have always been.
One world government is next. This has been in the planning for centuries.
You see televangelists living high on the hog and corrupting the faith. Let's not forget who runs the media. The very people that will rule you in the not too distant future. It is their goal to destroy faith because without faith you are disarmed and powerless. They say nothing of the millions of christians throughout the world who at this very moment are dying for their faith in Jesus and in their service to Him. Crucifixion and beheading in Iraq, imprisonment, torture. These are all scriptural. Satan has you just where he wants you.

Matthew 7:21-23 not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Luke 13:5, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Originally posted by unity1
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall come upon everything proud and lofty, upon everything lifted up - and it shall be brought low. (Isaiah 2:12

And here you quote from the Tanakh that only uses the word "faith" twice in the whole of its context and only once is speaking of the faith that Paul speaks of and it is a rebuke.. not condoning at all.. The one other usage of the word is actually translated into faithfulness in KNOWLEDGE, not blind faith.

And clearly that passage is not speaking to the world.. it is speaking to the pride of certain people... for it was *their* covenant that demanded humbleness of heart.

1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

Ironic thing is, the hellenistic Jews deceived many people to whom the Scriptures did not apply... and now you have inherited the same guilt on your head as they have if you have ever thought to condemn someone who is not under the covenant that G.d made with His children.. and the same Scriptures that you just quoted also say that you will eat the words that you have put out unless you turn and follow after His ways.. as you now stand guilty for the condemnation you put out applying the Word of G.d to just anyone without understanding it.


Thus, you might want to look up Hosea 4:6, understand it, and take it to heart to seek His knowledge so that you do not stand His judgment void of His knowledge. Use His knowledge ignorantly and you have accepted the covenant.. thus, understanding it is of top priority!

[edit on 5-2-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by unity1
Satan is real.

Nope.. no putting the guilt off on Satan.. since Satan is only representative much in the same way that Christ is.

Have you ever even bothered to understand what you claim to have faith in. In fact, Jesus quite clearly says that He did not come for the Jewish people! He came for the lost house of Israel. Satan was no more than His natural tendencies seek selfishness...Satan is this.. right now... using Scriptures in ignorance and the Paul Scriptures are so anti-Tanakh it goes to show how far into the trap you have fallen

Over 245 times the NT uses the word faith and only twice in the Tanakh... (the Pauline version being the one to be rebuked).

G.d clearly says that knowledge is the path to salvation. show me once besides the rebuke in Habakkuk 2 where faith will justify a person.. it is quite the opposite that is said over and over.. knowledge.

Isaiah 2: 12
King James version
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

This is in reference to the nwo, the catholic church and any other institution that seeks to take the place of and above God.
I should have made that clear, sorry about that.

Satan is indeed real and he is hard at work decieving those who do not want to be accountable to anyone but themselves.

I live according to the faith and the word of God. The Holy Spirit, in case you are not familiar with him is a gift that is given to those who repent and believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God. Of Him I am sure in that he reproves me and is with me continually.

"Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed"(Jn.20:29).

Proverbs 15:10
Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.

II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

I spent my time looking into new age philosophy until God reproved me and brought me back in accordance with His word.

These are the last days.

Faith and love for Jesus Christ is the only thing that will deliver us in these last days.



>
King James Bible

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

We don't need to be saved from God and we don't need to be saved from hell. What we need to be saved from is eachother.

Until we can see ourselves for what we are... flawed, as perfectly as a human, and until we can see eachother in the same way there will be war, division, conflict and hate.

We should teach our children and our future the value of life and the value of the lives of others. We should not base beliefs on scripts from thousands of years ago. We have evolved since then and our beliefs should also evolve.

To answer the question, I think that faith can change the world. But faith in religion creates a divide not unity. So I think one should have faith in oneself, in others and in humanity instead. Only when we have faith in humanity will we know the value of eachother and of peace.


When we let go of fear, only then can we gracefully move from
what was into the miracle of what can be. - Author Unkown

Originally posted by justamomma
What is faith to you? How do you define it?

Faith to me is "filling in the blanks". I did not read the Bible and suddenly believe (though I admire those who did). For me I had to see for myself that something beyond the human realm existed. Once I did though, it didn't take long for me to realize I was in a heap of trouble if I couldn't piece together the puzzle quickly. By faith I was able to see the pieces I was missing and by faith in God I was rescued from demise.

Originally posted by justamomma
Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:7-9

The reason why the Bible is a great book is not because it gives good advice, but because it is correct.

Originally posted by justamomma
To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?

Judgement.

Originally posted by justamomma
What is it that you are putting your faith in?

What Christ did for me, which is to say he died for my sins and resurrected to prepare a place in heaven for those who believe in him.

Originally posted by justamomma
Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?

Absolutely. The primary difference is in motivation. Self turns to selfless, frustration turns to patience, confusion turns to understanding, anger turns to love. These are only a few of the encompassing terms of the changes it brought about for me.

Originally posted by justamomma
If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?

I've already reaped fruits of faith so I know it works. Even if 'proven wrong' those fruits could not be undone.

Originally posted by justamomma
Is doubt wrong? If you think so, why?

No. Everyone doubts and is a gift of God to test everything. The danger lies in not pursuing truth.

Originally posted by justamomma
What is absolute Truth?

God.

Originally posted by justamomma
Is your faith grounded in that absolute Truth and if you think so, how do you know this?

Yes, else I'd be dead.

Originally posted by justamomma
Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?

It can and it will. God, founder of absolute truth, will bring it according to His plan and appointed time.

Originally posted by justamomma
Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

It sounds like this is implying that both faith and reason go hand-in-hand and yet not the same. Yes, I believe this is true as trusting in the faith has provided reason later on as to why things happened as they did. Also, reason helps exploring faith towards understanding how it works. A friend of mine got me a book of poems by John Donne...perhaps it's time I start reading it.

Originally posted by justamomma
I will wait awhile to see the answers and give it some time to honestly consider the view points brought forth and then give my thoughts on this topic. Thank you in advance to all those who are willing to take the time to share their thoughts concerning Faith.

This is only the beginning, would you be willing to U2U me? I have some questions for you as well.

[edit on 5-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by justamomma
Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:7-9

The reason why the Bible is a great book is not because it gives good advice, but because it is correct.

Originally posted by justamomma
To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?

Judgement.

Thank you for taking the time to answer... I do have another question concerning the above, if you do not mind. I will have "faith" that you do not mind and ask

Do you understand the judgment of G.d? or maybe it would be better worded as what *is* the judgment of G.d?

The reason I ask is because He clearly says in proverbs 21: 3 "To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice."


[edit on 5-2-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Obliterated
We don't need to be saved from God and we don't need to be saved from hell. What we need to be saved from is eachother.

Food for thought most definitely!!

Originally posted by justamomma
Thank you for taking the time to answer... I do have another question concerning the above, if you do not mind. I will have "faith" that you do not mind and ask

Your faith is well founded.

Originally posted by justamomma
Do you understand the judgment of G.d? or maybe it would be better worded as what *is* the judgment of G.d?

I do not wholly understand the judgement of God, though He has clue'd us in on what He does and does not want to see out of us. He does want to see us love one another and does not want us to hate others. When we get into minute details like being angry at an injustice...well, is that right or isn't it? Surely we should stand up when something is wrong, but are we more effective without the anger? It's a tough call...fortunately we don't have to make the decision on our own and can always ask for His advice or guidance.

Originally posted by justamomma
The reason I ask is because He clearly says in proverbs 21: 3 "To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice."

You're right on. He would rather us make right decisions than to make wrong ones and give over things we value. What I mean by being saved by His judgement is in the end of my life, I'll be standing before Him. Without being saved, He will be recounting all I am...the things I've done, the things I've said, the things I've thought. Now, exposing all these things to a perfectly right and just God is going to make me look very pale. Good, bad and indifferent, I cannot possibly see how who I am is good enough to enter into His heaven. Christ intercedes, "Lord, I know what you see in this person, but everything wrong and indifferent committed has been paid by my very own blood so that this person owes no debt to you. See then only the good and Your son whom you sent to die for those sins before you now." With a defense attorney like that, how could I possibly lose?

[edit on 5-2-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by justamomma

What is faith to you?

How do you define it?

Trust.

While the word faith may not be used much in the old testament, the word trust is used abundantly. To me, they are one in the same. Definitionally this bears true as trust and faith are synonyms.

Is it faith that saves a person or knowledge?

Faith, belief*, trust in God, with or without knowledge of God's transformative power, does in fact save.

Spiritual knowledge is, imo, given by God and is a symptom of someone's closeness to God and is not actually a prerequisite. To me, unconditional love combined with a broken and contrite heart is more of a prerequisite.

*Historically, the word 'believe' had more of the meaning of 'certitude' rather than the magical fairy tale connotation that it has taken on in today's world.

To answer this though, you must first answer, what is it that you are being saved from?

From all that is not within our true nature.

What is it that you are putting your faith in?

God's perfect fairness.

Can faith bring about true change in your life? If it can, please explain how?

Faith, defined as trust, provides internal peace along with the willingness to allow others their own free will.

If what your faith is in were to be proven wrong, where would that leave you?

If there were no God whom made all things, I would not exist.

Is doubt wrong? If you think so, why?

No.

What is absolute Truth?

God IS.

Is your faith grounded in that absolute Truth and if you think so, how do you know this?

Yes. Because, I exist.

Can faith bring about Peace in this world? If so, how? If not, why?

Hasn't yet. It could however if everyone had it.

Do you think the following statement is correct? Why or why not?
Reason is our soul's left hand, Faith her right. ~John Donne

To make my answer understandable I have to provide the meanings of what the left and the right sides mean to me.

As I understand this symbolism, the left hand side is the negative side and it is that of judgment. It is harsh and strict. The right hand side is the positive side and it is of mercy.

So, yes, I agree with the statement insofar as neither hand is used over and above the other, but rather in tandem. Using either hand predominately leads to error, imo, which I believe is easy to see how that would be so.