Steroids... To Have or to not?

Ok hi fellow conspirators.... This is my first post and i wanted to get your views on this topic.
Let me start off just by saying im not intrested in taking steroids but i have read many threads here and elsewhere on the Internet about Oestrogen levels in males are at an all time high while the Testosterone levels in men in the west are at an all time low.

These articles claim that there are huge amounts of Oestregan in tap water, Some bottled water and the lining of certain plastics in drinking bottles In foods, and in some medications, But 1 of the biggest worry's is The Female Contraceptive Pill getting into the water supplies......... Check this link for a good article

www.detoxifynow.com...

I dont know if there is an "conspiracy" to do this on purpose or not (eugenics), But you only have to go to the Mall to see a larger number of effeminate boys compared to the past to know whatever is happening its working

But my question is..... Should all males in the west now be taking Testosterone supplements to be able to boost their T levels to a more healthy level..... Surely there must be some way to counter-act this effect?
What are the most natural ways to raise the levels without drugs?

And if that was so then what should the law (or your opinion) be on steroid use?

Thanks for your loan of mind on this topic..... Its realy got me puzzled!

Peace

Shen Long

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Master Shen long]

Originally posted by Master Shen long
I dont know if there is an "conspiracy" to do this on purpose or not (eugenics), But you only have to go to the Mall to see a larger number of effeminate boys compared to the past to know whatever is happening its working

It could be social. We'd have to have actual data to compare.

Originally posted by Master Shen long
But my question is..... Should all males in the west now be taking Testosterone supplements to be able to boost their T levels to a more healthy level.....

I'm thinking no. Steroids have some harmful side-effects. I'd taken a nasal decongestant for a few weeks that had a small measure of steroids in it and it really messed with me physically. Couldn't sleep, irratable, sweating for no reason, palpitations, etc. Long term effects are worse:

Anabolic Steroid Side Effects:
1. Water Retention
2. Acne
3. Gynecomastia
4. Aggression
5. Hypertension
6. Cardiovascular Disease
7. Palpitations
8. Impotence
9. Jaundice

More info can be found here www.thesteroidtruth.com... or cross-verified by other websites or books.

Originally posted by Master Shen long
Surely there must be some way to counter-act this effect?
What are the most natural ways to raise the levels without drugs?

Exercise, good diet.

Originally posted by Master Shen long
And if that was so then what should the law (or your opinion) be on steroid use?

Only available with a prescription...and doctors need to pull back on issuing prescriptions.

Testimonies from ex-athletes about the steroids they'd used should be enough to convince anyone to steer clear of them.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by saint4God]

The context in which these side effects appear should be addressed. Many of those side effects only rear their ugly heads under cases of abuse. If you compare the dosages by the average male taking testosterone under a doctors supervision for therapeutic reasons versus your "more is better" mentality gym rat then these side effects become more prevalent. The nasal inhaler in which you speak would NOT contain an "androgenic" steroid such as testosterone but rather a "corticosteroid" that is a derivative of the cortisol hormone. This class of drugs act to suppress your immune response to certain stimuli which usually blunts the inflammatory process, which has its place, but if abused can lead to rather severe consequences. Ask any athlete that feels that cortisone injections mean more field time.

There is actual data that not only suggests but clearly shows that the average T level in men has declined over the past fifty years or so. They don't venture a guess as to how this is, but I would imagine our constant exposure to certain radiation as well as chemicals could inhibit these processes. There are many chemicals that act as estrogens in men.

Other studies point to increases in cognitive function, as well market increases in the quality of life for the aging population. To consider this kind of therapy unscientific is to succumb to the blatant propaganda of the anti-doping community which cares not for the average man but for the sports community, which by the way, will be moving on to gene doping if they haven't already.

ANABOLIC steroids were once over the counter, and most likely considered the miracle drug of its time. How could they have gone from as common as aspirin to some evil poison in just the last ten years when they have been around, and used safely for much longer? Matter of fact, they have given anavar to underage burn victims to facilitate recovery in one study. AIDS victims will be quick to tell you what a Godsend these have been. More people die of "safe" medications every year compared to anabolic steroid usage. Fact of the matter is, the pharmaceutical companies have SARMs coming out, which are the next generation of anabolics if you must know, these clearly would have competition if steroids were allowed to run unchecked wouldn't they?

In my opinion, we should all have carte blanche as to would we put into our bodies. So it is my opinion, that when you peer through the double standard put forth by the media, you will notice there lies a drug that can be used responsibly, has been used responsibly, and will continue to be used responsibly by those who don't buy in to bought politics.

Since working out raises testosterone levels naturally - it is the most logical, healthy and safe solution. By consuming high levels of external testosterone AND also high level of estrogen/progesterone metabolites from contaminated environment all i can see is danger of side effects of both. So no need to shoot yourself in the head because you have a head ache. Try to find uncontaminated place and exercise.

Originally posted by modusoperandi
The nasal inhaler in which you speak would NOT contain an "androgenic" steroid such as testosterone but rather a "corticosteroid" that is a derivative of the cortisol hormone. This class of drugs act to suppress your immune response to certain stimuli which usually blunts the inflammatory process, which has its place, but if abused can lead to rather severe consequences.

This is a good point. I did follow proper dosage though and know of others who have had the same side-effects. If I were the only one, I wouldn't raise the concern and what I'm trying to help others realize is that steriods have side-effects. For example Testosterone Enanthate:

All medicines may cause side effects, but many people have no, or minor, side effects. Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome when using Testosterone Enanthate:

Acne; bitter or strange taste in mouth; change in sex drive; fatigue; gum or mouth irritation; gum pain; gum tenderness or swelling; hair loss; headache.

Seek medical attention right away if any of these SEVERE side effects occur when using Testosterone Enanthate:

Severe allergic reactions (rash; hives; itching; difficulty breathing; tightness in the chest; swelling of the mouth, face, lips, or tongue); breast growth or pain; change in the size or shape of the testicles; changes in menstrual periods; coughing fit; dark urine or light-colored bowel movements; depression or mood changes; dizziness; facial hair growth; gingivitis; interrupted breathing while sleeping; loss of appetite; nausea; painful or prolonged erection; shortness of breath; stomach pain; swelling of the ankles or legs; urination problems; voice changes or hoarseness; weight gain; yellowing of the skin or eyes.

- www.drugs.com...

Sometimes the cure is worse than the 'disease'.

Originally posted by modusoperandi
There is actual data that not only suggests but clearly shows that the average T level in men has declined over the past fifty years or so. They don't venture a guess as to how this is, but I would imagine our constant exposure to certain radiation as well as chemicals could inhibit these processes.

Do you (or anyone) know of a site you trust that has some solid data on it?

Thanks for the reply's peeps...... Sure is some good valid info there thanks!

I am gonna try to dig some info up today from some MSM on articles on T levels in males today and ill post it up on here when i get them....

Ref Testosterone Enanthate:

So is this a steroid supplement given for medical conditions (like asthma)? That does have some serious side effects it seems from your post.

I know some supplements like Tribulus Terrestris whic some people use as a post cycle therapy is a natural testosterone booster and has minimal if any side effects. So maybe something like that would be a safer bet.......

Some compounds that are legal like M1-test (now recently stopped production because of a threat to be banned i believe) are more harsher than the illegal brands (due to the fact they are tablet form, thus have to pass through the liver) while the illegal brands are injectibles......

Im gonna dig those figures up on average male test levels and ill get back here with the results...... Cheers!

Oh and one last thing, I read while researching this that Asprin is a far more dangerouse chemical gram for gram compared to Test suppliments..... Do you think there is any truth in this?

Ok im just doing a bit of research now and came across these few points:

Men with low testosterone levels had an 88 percent increase in risk of death compared with those who had normal levels. The effect persisted even after variables such as age, other illnesses and body mass index were controlled for.

www.livescience.com...

AND THIS.................................................................

Marriage lowers testosterone

www.hno.harvard.edu...

A man's testosterone levels drop significantly when he holds an infant. Even holding a baby doll can decrease levels of the male virility hormone.

Married men, whether fathers or not, have markedly lower testosterone levels than single males, according to one of the first studies of how the hormone changes when men marry and become fathers. Results of the study, done by a team of Harvard University anthropologists, increase our knowledge of human biology and may have implications for so-called "male menopause."

AND THIS...................................................

low testosterone link with Alzheimer's disease

www.collegesportsscholarships.com...

Wayne State University Professor Scott Moffat and his university colleagues have discovered a link between low testosterone and Alzheimer’s disease (AD) in older men.

..........................................................................................................

Hmm, So it seems there are many things that can go wrong if you have low T levels like an 88% chance of dying early or Alzheimers if you make into later life (oh dont forget the marriage article).....

Keep up the good work on the reseach Master Shen long, just sayin' I've never heard "steroids" and "completely harmless" used in the same sentence before. Many long term effects are difficult to see and won't show in a short term study.

Yes, Aspirin can cause liver shut-down if you overdose. I had a family member who overdosed on oxycontin. The doctor said to me, "good thing it wasn't aspirin, she'd be dead". While it's true aspirin can help with heart disease, there are natural alternatives to doing the same such as diet and exercise. If it's necessary then it's necessary, but if it's not, probably best just to leave it alone instead of playing rookie doctor.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by saint4God]

I agree, i have never heard that they are harmless either....... Im just realy stumped as to if it is better to take a trusted test supplement to boost the levels or just do nothing and hope for the best.....

Time will tell in the future about average levels in todays males...... But the other poster had a good point about steroids being illegal in the sporting world but that it has no real impact on the normal world....... I have taken random examples of know steroids and done a few google searches, for example the well known first sted Methyl testosterone and all the research and study articles all point back to the 1 study done 3 decades ago, but no other studys since......

Bizaro

Peace!

Originally posted by Master Shen long


A man's testosterone levels drop significantly when he holds an infant. Even holding a baby doll can decrease levels of the male virility hormone.

Married men, whether fathers or not, have markedly lower testosterone levels than single males, according to one of the first studies of how the hormone changes when men marry and become fathers. Results of the study, done by a team of Harvard University anthropologists, increase our knowledge of human biology and may have implications for so-called "male menopause."

I think that this might be the number one cause. Gone are the days of Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, playing cowboys and indians and acting like "boys". Males are expected to be more sensitive and understanding to womens issues and gentle "metrosexual" ideas. Back in the day, a man was a man... if you had a disagreement, you settled it like men. You where king of the castle and you were treated like men.

That's my opionion.... Ooops, gotta go. My wife is calling me (**Coming honey**)

I totally applaud Master Shen long's research into steroids. Although I'm a biochemist, I really haven't done a whole lot of reading on it and have more to say about it from an experience standpoint than a technical one. Smart decisions are made from Shen's kind of knowledge in conjunction with experience. Between the two I think a right, informed and careful decision can be made. We must always do our best to not oversell the highpoints and not disregard the lowpoints. This thread has encouraged me to do more reading about the topic and that is truly denying ignorance.

Regarding the rationale that perhaps we should feed steroid pills to our eight year-old lads because we're afraid they won't grow up to be John Wayne, this gives me a great cause for concern. To be completely honest, I think the biggest threat to our young boys is the lack of family rolemodels as many fathers these days seem to skitter off as soon as they find out their girl is pregnant. It seems as a society we need a lesson on "being a man" when it comes to responsible fatherhood. God bless those of you fathers who are there for your children.

Here's proof of a real man:

Originally posted by exfed
Ooops, gotta go. My wife is calling me (**Coming honey**)

One who is not afraid to show their love and be a provider.

[edit on 30-1-2009 by saint4God]

Steroids can be very helpful for sick people. I do understand that they have side effects but if it's to treat sick people and not just for the macho effect, it's cool for me.

=========
[spam link removed]


[edit on 30-1-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

I can only tell you what I know from personal experience.

Testosterone is given to men to increase libido, and to men and women to increase energy, red blood cell production, and to increase bone density.

It is best to have medical tests done to determine if there is a need for testosterone treatment. I have a friend that I give testosterone injections to. They are prescribed by his doctor. He is 34 years old and single.
He has several female friends that anxiously await his call telling them he has had his shot. OK enough of that.

I am disabled but have gone to the gym with my son for years. He does his work out and helps me with things I do to keep from loosing muscle mass.

I have watched several members of the gym use 'roids' as they call them.
I will admit the results in increased muscle mass is amazing but there is most always a marked difference in attitude. It can get ugly quick.

Being a free spirit I believe man should be in control of what he wants to put in his body. It would not be right for me because I believe my body is a temple but others should have the right to make that determination themselves.

Every thing you put in your body from food to medications has an effect. Some effects are harmful, some beneficial.

I take deltasone, which is a synthetic corticosteroid, due to medical conditions. The side effects are not good but it is a life saving drug and does work very well.

In conclusion I would suggest care be taken in making a decision concerning implementing testosterone treatment.

(bows again, finds shoes and )

Steroids are definitely not harmless. Every side effect saint4god posted are most certainly possible when administering, these hormones in supra physiological doses. The human body can indeed exhibit flu like symptoms when testosterone enanthate is administered in large doses as the body reacts negatively to excessively high levels of these hormones. Children... as well as teens have no business taking these drugs for cosmetic enhancement as the endocrine system isn't to be trifled with during its developmental stages.

As far as the studies I mentioned previously, I would have to dig through many back issues of Muscular Development. There are a few columns that deal with the actual science of bodybuilding pharmacology backed by actual studies performed by seasoned professionals. They are also quick to point out if said data can be taken in context as there may be flaws in the methodology in which it is collected. Anecdotal reports have no place as scientific dogma.

Saint is correct, harmless they are not, demonized they are, and I think that these drugs, like many others, can be therapeutic in some dosages, and downright poison at excessive levels.

Originally posted by Master Shen long
Ok hi fellow conspirators.... This is my first post and i wanted to get your views on this topic.
Let me start off just by saying im not intrested in taking steroids but i have read many threads here and elsewhere on the Internet about Oestrogen levels in males are at an all time high while the Testosterone levels in men in the west are at an all time low.

These articles claim that there are huge amounts of Oestregan in tap water, Some bottled water and the lining of certain plastics in drinking bottles In foods, and in some medications, But 1 of the biggest worry's is The Female Contraceptive Pill getting into the water supplies......... Check this link for a good article

www.detoxifynow.com...

I dont know if there is an "conspiracy" to do this on purpose or not (eugenics), But you only have to go to the Mall to see a larger number of effeminate boys compared to the past to know whatever is happening its working

But my question is..... Should all males in the west now be taking Testosterone supplements to be able to boost their T levels to a more healthy level..... Surely there must be some way to counter-act this effect?
What are the most natural ways to raise the levels without drugs?

And if that was so then what should the law (or your opinion) be on steroid use?

Thanks for your loan of mind on this topic..... Its realy got me puzzled!

Peace

Shen Long

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Master Shen long]

dude steroids rule. as long as you live with a hot chick. also she cant make weird clicking noises and sounds because youll end up chopping her up in pieces. but for the most part the sexual stamina is what its about, but being yelled at while your on them is not cool.


i wish i had some i could inject into the back of my kneck. then inject them in diffrent areas to maintain a balance.