Confused about Muslims? Give one a call

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

But again, this thread isn't about zionism.

No, but the thread's topic is synonymous with zionism. Perhaps you should research the issue more often to get a better outlook on this corrupted world.

Armchair researchers

Originally posted by NatureBoy
reply to post by Mynaeris

 

Free trips to Israel? can i go even if i'm not jewish? I could say that i think my granny was a crypto-jew, i doubt they care as l'm willing to move into a 'politically important area' such as the gaza strip or golon hights.

Probably paid for by US tax dollars. Pretend that you are thinking of converting and joining the IDF. Who knows, you might get a temparory girlfriend along with a free trip.

This is a good idea. In my weaker moments I buy into the anti-muslim reporting in the media but when I talk to my muslims friends I'm often able to see their point of view. Even if you don't agree on everything it's helpful to hear different points of view on various hot topics regarding the muslim faith.

While I appreciate the attempted muslim outreach by setting up the 800 number, I'm also troubled by the thoughts and actions of the people behind the scenes, as was mentioned in a previous post.

Yes,unfortunately you will often find that as soon as you bring up some point,issue or aspect that seemingly contradicts the specific claims of the imans or priests of abrahamic lore, there will always be those agenda driven individuals who will instantly start claiming hysterical 'persecution complex' conspiracy theories (possibly in a vain attempt to court victimhood) - its a shame because what is actualy being practised is objective,free enquiry.
The same people who do this are also usualy loathe to actualy address any of the pertinent points or fair issues raised - I think it has more to do with attempting to muddy the water rather than engaging in honest and mature debate.

The link has some very good points on it which completely refute many of the claims made by ICNA:
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

As it says on the home page of the link,its important to note that:

No Muslim should be harassed or harmed anywhere in the world because of his or her religion. Islam is a broad faith and every Muslim should be treated as an individual and judged only by his or her own words and deeds.

In fact, there are exceptional Muslims whose faith gives them character, as evidenced by their sincere denunciation of terror and tangible resolve to ending it.
They stand in sharp contrast to groups like the American CAIR and MPAC Islamic supremacist organizations, which use their influence to complain of petty grievances and inflame hatred against a country that tries hard to accommodate their faith in spite of the violence.

I'm sure many moderately minded people will agree that some issues do need to be raised (and openly discussed) about abrahamic lore - particularly in regard to the sociopathic,sexist instructions and comments which condone,encourage or promote
violence,intolerance,inherent bigotry,prejudice,delusions of grandeur,subjugation of women,wifebeating,homophobia etc..


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Sonya610
Actually Muslims are not that bad about trying to convert folks. Not nearly as bad as Christians.

How true that has been in my experience as well.

Quite a few of my friends in college were Muslims.
Never once did any of them ever try to convert me to Islam. Instead, I found that they were genuinely curious as to why I was an Atheist.
Usually with questions like "So, why did you come to believe that?"

Whereas I used to have to keep my Christian friends and my Muslim friends at bay a few times, because the Christians just wouldn't give up trying to convert the Muslims, or me. It was ridiculous.

I kept reminding the Christians in our circle of friends that the Muslims aren't going to convert to Christianity and more than they would convert to Islam.
They didn't seem to understand. They usually replied with "But we have the one true god, they're worshiping a false god." or something to the effect.

I never once saw any of our Muslim friends get angry over these episodes. They would usually just tell me they're going to hang out somewhere else for a while.


On other occasions, the Christians usually stopped with me telling them to shut up or get lost.
They usually reluctantly shut up.

Apparently Christians can't stand being isolated... who knew? lol.
They also don't like being talked down to by the only real heathens in the group, the Atheists... but someones gotta stand in the middle.

Originally posted by johnsky

Originally posted by Sonya610
Actually Muslims are not that bad about trying to convert folks. Not nearly as bad as Christians.

How true that has been in my experience as well.

It may very be true for moderate folk in the West who have the decency not to forcefully impose their opinions on others but lets not forget that it is still a capital offense not to conform to the state religion in Pakistan (and often extremely dangerous for muslims to convert or leave their faith in other islamic countries).
www.belowtopsecret.com...

*Ring...ring*

"Hello, ask a Muslim. How can I help you?"

"Yes, is it true that I can get 72 virgins? Are they good looking virgins or just rejects that no one on Earth would want I'm skeptical as to why no one has already taken them. If they are good looking will there be any child support involved, and do I get a pension to help pay for it if there is?"

reply to post by dbates

*Ring...ring* "Hello, ask a Muslim. How can I help you?" "Yes, is it true that I can get 72 virgins?

Considering that your a moderator(super); you should be ashamed of yourself for the stereotype comments you just made. 72 virgins?

Your attempts to denote and simplify a religion to what a cleric or terrorist may have said about Islam; is disgusting to say the least. Do you have a particular hatred of Muslims that you wish to get off your chest?

An excellent idea! Now people who are confused about muslims can ask them themselves.
TPTB won't like this though, it has the potential to undo all of their hard work.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
An excellent idea! Now people who are confused about muslims can ask them themselves.

TPTB won't like this though, it has the potential to undo all of their hard work.

Thank you NuclearPaul for your insightful comments.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if the TPTB were the ones to set up this little 1-800 ask a Muslim.

reply to post by Majorion

"Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34).

Granted that the number 72 isn't mentioned here. For that we have to turn to Hadith # 2,562 in the Sunan al-Tirmidhi.

"The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

To say that I'm making this up is untrue. It's right there for anyone to read. While you could argue that the number of young full-breasted maidens that you'll receive in paradise is just an add-on, there's no arguing that that's the promise. It's right there in the Koran.

Why not call the number and ask. I really do wonder if they'll admit to this.

reply to post by dbates

"Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34).

This is simply a translation from the Quran, it's not the original text, and it is only the interpretation of a particular cleric. I can fluently read and speak Arabic myself. I just opened the Quran in it's original language to take a look at the verses in question; you wanna know how I interpret and translate it?

Surat Annaba'(verses 31-34);

"For the humble, there will be success(31) Gardens and Grapes(32) And many to join in festivities(33) and a cup of refreshment(34)"

You'll notice that MY interpretation somewhat differs than your own selected reference. The Arabic language is the most complex and detailed language in the world, so many terms can be turned into something else.

Also, by your own admission earlier, no number was assigned; like 72 or any other number, and the word "virgin(s)" (in Arabic "athra") wasn't there at all either.

You then went on to reference Hadith, which is arguably NOT part of the Islamic religion. It's even inaccurate for historical information. Hadith in essence.. is truly, His Story.

And one more thing, as a Mod, you really should've gave a link to the "source" of your material.

While you could argue that the number of young full-breasted maidens that you'll receive in paradise is just an add-on, there's no arguing that that's the promise. It's right there in the Koran.

I just demonstrated that such isn't the case. And it's NOT in the Quran.

[edit on 28/1/09 by Majorion]

Originally posted by Majorion
And one more thing, as a Mod, you really should've gave a link to the "source" of your material.

But I did. It's Surat Annaba'(verses 31-34). If this were a one-off quote from some special source I would have given you an exact link, but I don't do the same for the Bible half the time. Simply citing the book and verses is more than enough information for someone to look up the information, but I can understand your questions about the translation.

Here are a few links for you. I find that this is a very common translation for these verses.

www.quraanshareef.org...

transliteration.org...

www.centerforinquiry.net...

www.answering-islam.org...

But we should really call this number and ask them I think. I'll have to do this tomorrow.

[edit on 28-1-2009 by dbates]

That is a joke isn't it, about Americans calming down?

The fastest growing religion in America is Islam, and so it is a good idea to spread it around some more? You have to understand they are wanting to bring people to Islam, not as a Sunday school lesson, but to empower Islam and their "message." I went to college when a larg influx of Arabs and Iranians came to the US to study. I also have some literature`of their national group, and their mission was to beat down the imperialistic USA, they have had a plan for a long time to make the USA suffer. I don't know about your Muslim friends, but these people were natives to their middle east countries. They are very cunning ,believe me they do not have the USA's interest at heart.

reply to post by aboxoftrix


Hey I have seen that bilboard!

Provided it isn't trying to convert I think it's a really good idea.

It's better to get info on the religion from the ones that practice it, then from individuals of another religion who see Islam as their rival.

reply to post by dbates

Ok, since you seem so adamant on imposing one translation of one verse.

Let's consider the verse number 33 from Surat Annaba' as such;

"And young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age;"
Quraan Shareef Online

So tell me.. what's wrong with that anyway? .. does this verse justify hating Arabs, Muslims and Islam in general?

I hope the hotline number actually brings in calls from people who sincerely want to know what Muslims believe and why.

My guess is that they get inundated with calls from evangelical Christians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Scientologists and any other of hundreds of American groups that have an agenda of proselytizing and/or conversion.

I have my own beliefs but no interest in converting others. I like to hear what others believe but not to be recruited.

If the 800 number simply provides information and answers questions then I may give them a call.

Confused about muslims? No, i am confused that us humans are beeing tricked into killing eachother by imaginary lines set between us to seperate us from one another, like religons and borders. Am i confused about islam? No, its just where im from getting stoned to death means hitting the bong till you drop, and where my one and only wife does not have to worry about sleeping six feet under me for not walking six feet behind me. Its just little things like that which make me not want to give islam as a religion a chance at all, the people on the other hand are just people like me and you, unless the color of their skin is green or purple they can keep their head on their shoulders in my opinion.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by CleaverMachete]

[edit on 29-1-2009 by CleaverMachete]