Obama to Close Guantanamo and Foreign Prisons, Limit CIA Methods

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD i am shocked,truely shocked not only closing gitmo but the foreign prisons(which are hardly ever mentioned by any politician) ......we may have been blessed by a good guy for once!
a bit of hope courses through my veins...lets hope he can bring the cia back into being a public service and not a tool of the executive.

jhill this is a comment I made in a thread started earlier this morning, I have however asked that any continued discussion be in this thread instead as your seems to represent better what I was hoping to accomplish.

The change needed to govern the future in a truly moral degree will require the same design that our founding fathers first envisioned for our country.

We have veered so off course that it comes as no surprise the Constitution has become the joke of the 20th century. The very same freedoms which were created to insure life and liberty have become a dangerous gilded cage for the American people.

We cannot allow the same course of action to prevail into the 21st century. This is one of so many steps that will be required to release the past and move in a new direction.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'm sure our enemies - both foreign and domestic - are in great joy this morning.

I would only change 'enemies' to 'friends' in that phrase.

I believe the people who are upset by this are the Islamic extremists and terrorist groups who have undoubtedly lost another recruiting incentive. They no longer will be able to say "see? America tortures and doesn't respect Habeas corpus".

I'm sure there are those in the 'the world is all rainbows and unicorns' crowd that will love this.

That world is also called the "the world where American and International law is upheld".

spot on,this is a war for hearts and minds,you have to remove any reason or rational for hostility against the usa and get the world to not see america as an enemy but as a force for good.
recapturing the credibility it gained in the aftermath of worldwar two,the worlds beloved super power a friend to all thats good.

This is the mark of an inexperienced, uneducated, immature liberal. What a fool, jumping the gun with silly moves designed to increase his popularity among those who do not and cannot realize the ramifications of his stupid decisions.

I continue to shudder at this man's lack of intelligence.

Originally posted by jsobecky
This is the mark of an inexperienced, uneducated, immature liberal. What a fool, jumping the gun with silly moves designed to increase his popularity among those who do not and cannot realize the ramifications of his stupid decisions.

Can you please share with us, uneducated immature liberals, what the ramifications of this decision are?

My oh my...this is dangerous...life threatening dangerous...
I was always taught, hear people say the CIA is an illegal government of its own...they have thie own agendas and operations, totaly scottt free of US goverment and constitution... its been well known for years, the CIA runs drugs through mexico and florida..that is how they get their money for their operations...because if government found out what the moneys was for, no way the senate would allow or vote for it... obama the man wants to limit/shut down thier operations? dosnt happen like that kids, in fact, i would not be the leat bit suprised, if CIA takes this as a threat..
I was watching a documentary on cable over past few months..well 2 one was coc aine cowboys, and th other, was abuot gangs adn low income aftrican americans form LA that were approached and offered to sell drugs/make money...they eventually got caught , and in confession, it turns out, alot of the drugs behind the supplier..was all CIA.. drugs is big business and money..i highly doubt CIA is going to actually kneel to obamas words and documentation..they coudl easily just shut down and operate covertly somewhere else..without his knowledge. or...as with the case of JFK..... yuo get the idea

I highly doubt Obama will tame the CIA. Its to damn big.

Originally posted by converge

Originally posted by jsobecky
This is the mark of an inexperienced, uneducated, immature liberal. What a fool, jumping the gun with silly moves designed to increase his popularity among those who do not and cannot realize the ramifications of his stupid decisions.

Can you please share with us, uneducated immature liberals, what the ramifications of this decision are?

I'll help you out and spell it out for ya,

B O O M !!!!

Originally posted by SectionEight
I'll help you out and spell it out for ya,

B O O M !!!!

Are you saying that if we don't torture and hold people indefinitely in secret prisons we'll be attacked?

reply to post by converge


No. What he is saying is that Obama made a very poor, ill-thought-out decision.

The home countries of these guys do not even want them back.

There is no court in our nation that will admit the type of evidence, although very damning, that we have against them.

There has been no plan announced on where to house these 250 thugs, who are the worst of the worse.

You can count on them visiting the US if released. And they will be armed.

Originally posted by West Coast
I highly doubt Obama will tame the CIA. Its to damn big.

history differs,bush with the intelligence reform and terrorism prevention act of 2004 managed to bring the entire cia under his control.
he did this by creating the postion of director for national intelligence(DNI),whom oversees national intelligence agencies and who is directly controlled and accountable to the executive,bush.

so believe it or not,the cia is alrealy tamed and bush did all the hard work!,all obama has to do is tell the DNI what to do...simple as that!

i said it a while back,the grabbing of power of all kinds by the bush regime would backfire or be a good thing if a good man got in power as that power can be used for good....empowering the executive if it is good!

oh and,

On July 30, 2008, President Bush issued Executive Order 13470[2] amending Executive Order 12333 to strengthen the role of the DNI.[3]

[edit on 22-1-2009 by welivefortheson]

The left and right can fight about this all day long for all I care..
You guys can go back and forth, tearing eachothers eyes out.

But lets look at this from another point of view.

Obama will close down these well known places. And in turn it will be more smoke and mirrors. Make the left "liberals" happy.
Piss off the Right wing "fundies". And create a smoke screen.

At the same time Im sure Obama is working close to the chest with CIA.
In opening new hidden prisons. Ones non of you know about!

Sure lets close down the ones everyone knows about.. As they are no longer "secert"!

They will just open up new ones.. And bam! There you have it..
Easy..

So you right wing VS left wingers keep on fighting and tearing eachother apart.. While the new guy slips in and pulls one over on all of us..

And its working great so far!!

Originally posted by jsobecky
The home countries of these guys do not even want them back.

Who says they are going back to their countries?

But shouldn't some of them go back to their countries? You know, the innocent?

There is no court in our nation that will admit the type of evidence, although very damning, that we have against them.

Yes, because there is no evidence on many of these people and others have been tortured, tainting their cases and admissions making prosecution next to impossible.

There has been no plan announced on where to house these 250 thugs, who are the worst of the worse.

I guess we'll have to wait until it is announced where they will be going, or what will exactly happen, before jumping to conclusions and saying they are all going home.

For the people who are saying let's wait until this becomes a bill or whatever. Your wait is over:

CNN

Promising to return America to the "moral high ground" in the war on terror, President Barack Obama issued three executive orders Thursday to demonstrate a clean break from the Bush administration -- including one requiring that the Guantanamo Bay detention facility be closed within a year.

Ok, lets put his in perspective.

He shuts down Gitmo. They don't have a plan on where these people will go. If you let them in America and hold trials for them in America they get a trial just the same as if you or I were to get caught doing something illegal.

What all you people thinking this is a good move are basically saying is that these are regular people and are not enemy combatants/POW's.

Our military troops if they get caught doing something illegal they get tried by a military tribunal during war time or no war time.

You are holding these people to a higher regard than what your holding your own countrymen too by supporting this.

As several other people have stated earlier in this thread these 250 people who knows what will happen to them, but you won't here about any other secret prisons they set up. And most likely these new prisons won't even be on any continent they will be floating prisons and what these people will have to go through will be way worse than anything that happened to them in Gitmo.

The fact is these people were picked up on the battle field and the only trial they deserve is by a military tribunal.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
He shuts down Gitmo. They don't have a plan on where these people will go.

President Obama ordered the start of the process of shutting down GITMO, and will, at best, close in 1 year.

In the meantime he order evaluation of each prisoner's status and case, what should be done with them and where to put them.

If you let them in America and hold trials for them in America they get a trial just the same as if you or I were to get caught doing something illegal.

Actually he has said that part of the process involves creating an effective and lawful way of prosecuting and detaining these people. I think I either heard Obama say that, or Press Sec. Gibbs just a while ago.

What all you people thinking this is a good move are basically saying is that these are regular people and are not enemy combatants/POW's.

You do know that there are laws and treaties for the imprisonment and treatment of POWs, right? And the United States signed those treaties.

You are holding these people to a higher regard than what your holding your own countrymen too by supporting this.

The United States is a country of laws. Nothing is more supreme than the Constitution and all the other laws and treaties the United States has agreed upon and signed.

Just detaining people without due process is a violation of Habeas Corpus and the US Constitution, and probably many International laws and treaties.

The fact is these people were picked up on the battle field and the only trial they deserve is by a military tribunal.

Untrue. There have been quite a few people who have already been released because their imprisonment was "a mistake." Who knows how many more had nothing to do with the war, but since they didn't have access to a lawyer, they couldn't present their case and defend themselves, as it is required by law.

Adding insult to injury that many of them were tortured and subject to extreme conditions and interrogation.

Give the Guantanamo prisoners trials, let the innocent go, and lock up and throw away the key for the guilty. No more of this keeping Gitmo prisoners in limbo.

Originally posted by jsobecky
This is the mark of an inexperienced, uneducated, immature liberal. What a fool, jumping the gun with silly moves designed to increase his popularity among those who do not and cannot realize the ramifications of his stupid decisions.

I continue to shudder at this man's lack of intelligence.

It will be very interesting to see how the pragmatic folks would try to protect the interest of this country against Obama's irrational mind.

How about supervising the activities in Gitmo?
Oh, no that's too complicated a solution for Obama's head.

But I can assure you that not all people are well-fed idealists who swallow any inferior propaganda without a blink:

But there was skeptical questioning from Republicans. House Minority Leader John Boehner was among a group of House Republicans who quickly filed a bill seeking to bar federal courts from ordering Guantanamo detainees to be released into the United States.

The year 2098: "Yes, my great-grandfather was a terrorist, but I am natural born citizen.
Honey, you look gorgeous in that Alfred Gitmo gown. Let's hurry up and make the $1,400,000,000 presidential gala the best ever."






[edit on 1/22/2009 by stander]

They are not going to be bringing these people into the united states. The MSM is reporting it's most likely they will be shipped to Iraq and held without charges in Iraq (which is against the Iraq SOFA by the way).

Originally posted by jsobecky
There is no court in our nation that will admit the type of evidence, although very damning, that we have against them.

There's a reason for that.

But you know why, don't you.

Time to pull together, dontcha think?