XiaoLong-The new advanced aircraft

Originally posted by sminkeypinkeyROFLMAO; so China has a barely 4th gen fighter in prototype form with 'Playstation 2' level computer/electronics.....well that's just GOT to justify bloating an already wildly bloated 'defence' budget by billions of $.

LOL, those Americans are funny, there are no serious 'enemies' left (nothing like what used to be a WARPAC type coalition of countries) yet they talk and act like there are.

Talk about pissing your tax-dollars away.

umm ok, you underestimate china, they are quickly catching up, dont be so foolish.

Is it just me or are ther allot of different fighters in Asia? the F-2, Kung-ho, the j-10, su-30, and f-15? Is everyone in Asia afraid of each other or what?

With half the worlds population in Asia and 3 potential super-powers(India, China and Russia) all with their foot in with some strong nations mixed in(Pakistan, Japan, Indonesia), it's a wonder they don't spend more on their military. The funny part is how Russia arms so many of them.

What is super-power defined by, I thoiught it was Nukes so Russia, India, China, and Pakistan arealready superpowers if that is the definition. I already know that Russia is a superpower already (although a pretty poor one economicallly)

Remember years back...

When I was a kid all the #ty crap that was cheap and broke quickly was stamped "Made in Japan", sound familiar? Gee that's not how we think of them now, is it?

In a much smaller time frame in which Japan played catch up to the 'west�, China will probably equal and quite possibly surpass us. We are at the high end of this current technology curve, all the advances now take more effort and resources and are generally smaller than previous ones. China is, where, around the upper middle (bottom being the Wright brothers, top being the kind of stuff that would makes you guys, and me salivate) of the tech curve (I see this as a relatively straight line of ascension with peaks and plateaus along the way with the top and bottom leveling off to none at one end and no more at the other, for instance of we remove the pilot and create a new technology dynamic, ie remote control fighters, than the speed and maneuverability for fighters will head back up in a new tech curve).I suppose, but they will be taking cheaper, easier and larger steps up the curve. And as they approach the top, on a footing with 'us' they will have much more momentum pushing them along.

Well I don't think it's time to worry yet, but I think that you are all crazy if you think you know China true current capabilities. You think they publish this stuff in Jane�s? Or the government is going to tell you? If that were true I would have been reading about the stealth, long before its �unveiling�.

They have had a hell of a lot of technology transfers and are making some pretty hi tech # these days, and didn't Clinton allow them to buy some super computers a while back? I'm sure the first one went to the Disassembly and Reproduction Department.

Expect China to act her age, not unlike America. The petulant youngster having to prove he�s the toughest kid on the block to the Wise, ancient one, willing to bide her time and play the game until the moment is right.

I wouldn't be surprised if on some real level Taiwan is still part of China and never left to begin with. With all its western and business technology flooding into the back door of the dragon.

Originally posted by Thanatos
Remember years back...

When I was a kid all the #ty crap that was cheap and broke quickly was stamped "Made in Japan", sound familiar? Gee that's not how we think of them now, is it?

In a much smaller time frame in which Japan played catch up to the 'west�,

- this is nuts; you do realise you are describing a consumer manufacturing base (paid for mainly by vast amounts of western money)?

China will probably equal and quite possibly surpass us.

- what's this? 'Guess and say anything you like' time? So you really think a military-industrial base is just like a few firms building cars or TV's?!

We are at the high end of this current technology curve, all the advances now take more effort and resources and are generally smaller than previous ones.

- That may or may not be true (of some fields - but unless you have an overview of everything you can hardly say all fields, how could you possibly know this to be true?) but in any case the vast expense of the R&D to develop and support these technologies cannot just be wished away or ignored as you are doing here.

China is, where, around the upper middle (bottom being the Wright brothers, top being the kind of stuff that would makes you guys, and me salivate) of the tech curve (I see this as a relatively straight line of ascension with peaks and plateaus along the way with the top and bottom leveling off to none at one end and no more at the other, for instance of we remove the pilot and create a new technology dynamic, ie remote control fighters, than the speed and maneuverability for fighters will head back up in a new tech curve).I suppose, but they will be taking cheaper, easier and larger steps up the curve
And as they approach the top, on a footing with 'us' they will have much more momentum pushing them along..

- Hmm, interesting self-sourced mumbo-jumbo there but the fact is there are no real shortcuts in this business.

As those who have attempted to acquire 'WMD's' have been finding out, the west and the Russians (and for that matter in certain fields China) did not spend the billions of $ in this areas for nothing. Technology costs, large.

Well I don't think it's time to worry yet

- phew, nice to see some sense in this 'debate' at last.

but I think that you are all crazy if you think you know China true current capabilities. You think they publish this stuff in Jane�s? Or the government is going to tell you? If that were true I would have been reading about the stealth, long before its �unveiling�.

- ah right, back to it then? We're just going to stoke up the paranoia anyway?

They have had a hell of a lot of technology transfers and are making some pretty hi tech # these days, and didn't Clinton allow them to buy some super computers a while back? I'm sure the first one went to the Disassembly and Reproduction Department.

- In an age where your car or camera has more computing power than sent man to the moon this arguement is absolutely specious. Physics is not western or American nor is metallurgy or software skills.

Expect China to act her age, not unlike America. The petulant youngster having to prove he�s the toughest kid on the block to the Wise, ancient one, willing to bide her time and play the game until the moment is right.

- er, what are you talking about? Don't you realise 'China' (as an established economic and political entity) has a recorded history going back over 6 000 years?

I wouldn't be surprised if on some real level Taiwan is still part of China and never left to begin with. With all its western and business technology flooding into the back door of the dragon.

- Sorry but I have seen nothing to indicate an expansionist China. China has only just finished recovering the territories she was forced to concede by the more advanced western powers a century or so ago. If anyone in the 'west Vs China' stakes has been an aggressor lately it is not China.

Bush seemed keen before the 9/11 attack and the 'war on terrorism/Iraq invasion' on promoting China as the next big bogey man - despite most rational assessments showing China with few offensive ICBMs or SLBMs. Chinese investment to get anywhere near the USA's level of offensive capability would have to be cripplingly HUGE and obvious. You can't do that stuff in secret anymore.

China can point to maps thousands of years old showing places like Taiwan and Tibet as Chinese and they (rightly or wrongly) would like that territory back but beyond that China shows every indication of seeing herself as quite large enough. Even the Korean war (from a Chinese point of view) had everything to do with helping to eject another lot of troublesome foreign invaders (hot on the heels of their experience with the Japanese) rather than any actual expansion.

I'm not under estimating China's long term potential - particularly as they inevitably cooperate ever more with Japanese technology - but let's not invent monsters, there are enough real ones to tackle without that IMHO.

In regards to China's 6000 years. She is referred to as the ancient one waiting not the youngster strutting around (America).

All I'm saying is China is on the fast track, look at her cities their big, modern and growing, although the country side is still muddled. The way that they entered capitalism, their way, on their time table has been astounding. Look for this as well in military matters. Their way, in their time, I don�t think they�re in a rush.

And what about those super computers anyway? And just how far away are current 'consumer electronics' from older military grade ones? The tech transfers may not give them what 'we' have but it gives them a mighty big leg up.

Christ man, The Art of War, they wrote the bloody thing. It looks like they are listening. What are we following, the religious interpretations of George Bush.

As for the Taiwan thing and the rest of my previous post. These are just thoughts, ideas I don't actually believe any of them or in much else for that matter, as I have no proof. We are allowed to post ideas no?

It also wouldn't surprise me if all this 'Black money' and disappeared military and other funds are building the US next air force based on the next technology curve.




[edit on 7-6-2004 by Thanatos]

I want to know if this can ACTUALLY compete with the F-16?

Originally posted by AD5673
I want to know if this can ACTUALLY compete with the F-16?

You heard it here first: NO!

In all seriousness though, it can't - you see, it's not just the performance of the aircraft anymore or the pilots for that matter (though they do count for a lot) but a lot of it is the radar, the computers, electronics ect ect. The fact is that China is at where the US was about 15 years ago in this area - if this plane came out during the cold war, it would be a problem - too bad for China that ended in the 90's.......

[edit on 8-6-2004 by American Mad Man]

I would say that this aircraft can and will compete with F-16 because China is not anymore a very far behind in tech country.

China got most of its tech from Russia.

Please tell me a Mig-29 cant compete with a F-16.

Out,
Russian

Originally posted by Russian
I would say that this aircraft can and will compete with F-16 because China is not anymore a very far behind in tech country.

China got most of its tech from Russia.

Please tell me a Mig-29 cant compete with a F-16.

Out,
Russian

There is a world of difference between the 'tech' of the 1970 -80's F16 generation of fighters and todays F 22, Eurofighter etc etc.

....and before this China-USA thing gets too silly, the Chinese have approximately 10 ICBM silos (more missiles may be held in reserve), a handfull of SLBM's in very noisey low tech submarines and no credible long range attack aircraft versus how many HUNDRED (mirv'd) US ICBMs, SLBMs and bombers?

FC-1 can't compare with F-16

J-10 is equal to F16 C/D

actually,China Air Force will never buy this kind of fighter.

Because FC-1 is out of time.

Pakistan pay the money,so we help them to design and to product.

EXACTLY, This thing is based on a Mig-21 with some upgraded aveonics.It dose'nt even come close to the F-16.But the J-10 is as good as an F-16(The J-10 was built by reverse enginering a pakistani F-16 with israel's help)

September 04, 2003: Sino-Pak fighter aircraft FC-1/JF-17 Thunder was successfully tested, said Chinese sources on Wednesday. "We have developed an advanced, multipurpose light fighter plane to meet the needs of overseas customers," the sources said. Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat also attended the formal launching ceremony.

The state-run Chinese news agency Xinhua reports that the maiden eight-minutes flight of the plane, named Xiaolong/FC-1, or fierce dragon, proved successful in Wenjiang Airport in Chengdu, capital of south-west China�s Sichuan province. During the show the plane demonstrated its outstanding mobility, good interception and ground attack capability, according to the report. With advanced design and manufacturing technology, the plane has the comprehensive combat capability of a third generation fighter plane and is on par with the world�s most advanced fighter planes, the report said.

The plane demonstrated its outstanding mobility, good interception and ground attack capability, said the report, adding that it had comprehensive combat capability of a third generation fighter plane and was at par with the world's most advanced fighter planes

The report said the plane is small in size and low in cost and suitable for modern warfare and the demands of military fighters. It took about four years for Chengdu Aircraft Group Corp, in cooperation with China Aero Technology Import & Export Co, to develop the plane. Pakistani Air Force officials say production of the JF-17 Thunder, which will be capable of delivering short-range and other missiles, is scheduled to begin in January 2006. China is Pakistan�s main defence supplier. The two countries have cooperated on a number of projects.
Source

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Stealth Spy]

That article is over a year old Stealth Spy....
Got an actual current information?



seekerof

Why doesn't the PLA-AF ever conduct exercises with any other airforce in the world??!! All those questions about 'how technologically advanced they are' and 'how capable their AF is in reality'..etc.. would be answered then.

Personally the only 'performance-related' info I have heard about the PLA-AF is the fact that a jet of theirs bumped into a american recon plane while trying to "buzz" it and spiralled into the ocean.

And I don't think they faired too well against the USAF in the Korean and Vietnam wars did they?

What/Where is the PLA-AF really?!!

I read recently that the PLAAF will be doing more international co-operation in the near future, along with the rest of the armed forces...

Apparently he government is placing a lot of faith in millitary transparency, now allowing tourists around bases and inviting foreign generals and journalists to millitary displays etc

Here are a few articles covering the matter...

www.china.org.cn...

news.xinhuanet.com...

english.eastday.com...

english.people.com.cn...

Originally posted by Seekerof
That article is over a year old Stealth Spy....
Got an actual current information?



seekerof

oops.

i am very sorry.

i was in kind of a hurry. the link said 2004, but the article is dated ad 2003.

sorry again.