Revisionist Zionism: A Lie Called Self-Defense

If the "goal" was to kill all Palestinians then why are they being so careful? If Israel wanted too there would be no Middle East, let alone Palestinians. But they target Hamas, just like Egypt does. Egypt sealed its borders and fires at Hamas just like Israel. The West Bank is not controlled by Hamas and is left alone. Any thing about Israel wanting too wipe out Palestinians is proven false by this note alone. Not to mention that again if they wanted to the ME wouldn't exist, let alone a few million Palestinians.

I would like to thank all the members flagging and contributing to the thread, and encourage both sides to put forth logical and ON TOPIC arguments about the thread.

People who wish to dispute the intent of the revisionist Zionists/History leading up to the current day Middle East, you are more than welcome.

For those who wish to do nothing but talk about self defense and freedom fighting today, and how their side is right, and the other side is just terrorists, please stop posting till you have something to contribute.

When you ignore the entire point of the thread, and go off on your own little rants about your own topic, all you do is derail the thread which is not appreciated. I put a great deal of effort into the thread and rather it not be derailed by simple minded propaganda from EITHER SIDE.

This is a reminder to remain On Topic.

This conflict can very easily get out of hand and distracted so I urge a bit more reflection regarding posting habits on this subject.

Thank you.

Originally posted by GamerGal
If the "goal" was to kill all Palestinians then why are they being so careful? If Israel wanted too there would be no Middle East, let alone Palestinians. But they target Hamas, just like Egypt does. Egypt sealed its borders and fires at Hamas just like Israel. The West Bank is not controlled by Hamas and is left alone. Any thing about Israel wanting too wipe out Palestinians is proven false by this note alone. Not to mention that again if they wanted to the ME wouldn't exist, let alone a few million Palestinians.

The part that I bolded just shows you didn't read ANYTHING. To save the OP some frustration, I will repeat:

The Zionist plan is colonization of the land. They don't want the Palestinians gone, they simply want them to be the minority under the Zionist laws. They are trying to break their will, not break their bloodline. The rest of your post is basically regurgitation of images shown to you by MSM and propagandists. Have you ever looked into the back history of why the Egyptians are fighting Hamas? Neither have I, so I'm not even gonna pretend to know. Deny Ignorance, Educate yourself! Finish coking the bacon before you eat it, or you can really get yourself into a jam.

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from what I gather, I'd have to say I back the Palestinians on this issue, but from what I can understand of Hamas, it seems that it is in place as an instigator to the situation. I really don't know, but it seems that Hamas has made the situation worse for the Arabs. I see the picture as this: Say you have 2 gangs. One controls a 'hood, and the other moves in because it has no place of it's own. They fight and both sides refuse to give in. The native gang is losing, and the occupiers know it and are growing weary of the battle and want to take control. In comes the "Hamas" idea. The invading gang talks with a member from the native side who just wants all the fighting done, maybe sees no future in it, or something. So they send this guy back to his gang. All of a sudden this guy rises up with a handfull of people and start escalating the 'war', in turn the occupiers fight back saying it is in self defense, killing off alot of the native gang that is not fighting.

I may just be totally off on this, but that's how I've come to see it. Elitists and Extremists... the difference between a chef and a line cook. Either way, I'd rather starve to death in America than live in the ME... some rough territory over there, and everyone gets drug into conflict, even if it is 500 miles away.

Great read. Alot of info packed into a small space.

reply to post by Earthscum


Thanks, I was getting tired of telling her to stay on topic and stop derailing the thread. Its like she doesn't even care about whats getting posted, just want she is thinking about the issue at the time.

If anyone notes any error is my OP's, PLEASE, feel free to correct them!

You are basing your stuff off of letters decades old and leaders long dead. I guess Germany still wants a holocaust against the Gypsies and Poles since one of their leaders long ago wanted that, and wrote a book about it. The here and now is Gaza and Hamas getting whooped on. Hamas needs to be eliminated. Not just for Israel but for the Palestinian people since Hamas kills as more Palestinians then they do Jews. Some for the most evil of crimes like singing at a wedding. mypetjawa.mu.nu...

Well researched and well put forth Grim.

In essence what you put forth is irrefutable. I have always known that Israel's origins are incredibly dubious and are built on shifting sands.

The only logical conclusion is : Israel has no inherent right to exist.

Much like other countries, Israel had to wage war/ terrorism/ diplomacy to create their state. Thus there is nothing revolutionary in Israel's actions.

However while I don't believe in any inherent right of Israel to exist; I do think that the only present solution is a two-state one.

I don't think Israel's origins should affect any modern solutions to the issue. By that I mean that history, while important, ought to be ignored in this case. If not, could everything the USA does be discredited by bringing up the genocide waged against Native Americans?

I think if anything, history and your post reinforce my notion that there are no angels in this conflict. However we all have our own biases and opinions and as such we all stand in one camp or the other.

[edit on 18-1-2009 by 44soulslayer]

reply to post by 44soulslayer


What I find most funny is that this thread got like next to no attention in comparison to the Palestinian Terrorism thread. Put well founded research into both of them, posted this one first, and all this one gets is a troll that can't even understand how History means everything when it comes to current events.

If ANYONE can show me how the history here is wrong, feel more than welcome to do so.

Not unlike the lie that we called self defense when we went to war with Iraq, eh?

Anyway, the point of both of these threads was to point out the fact that both sides are engaging, and have previously engaged in terrorism. Think about that before "picking sides".

reply to post by grimreaper797


I think thats probably because if people begin to examine the issues, they see that their high ground is considerably closer to sea level than they anticipated.

Knowledge of the historical background of the issues makes it impossible to dehumanize the enemy as illogical terrorists. The truth of course, is that they are merely the "other side".

I wonder if its fear that stops people from examining the issues. Fear of alienation... fear of losing long held beliefs.

No angels. Thats for damn sure.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


You are most likely right. I can only hope that the lack of responses is a result of the two sides thinking hard about their preconceived notions about the other side and their own beliefs.

reply to post by stumason



Great thread indeed. I wholeheartly agree with Stumason here


Very well researched and backed with history facts, its a shame really that most people will ignore what you wrote in your opening posts and just start bashing you for being a jewhater.

People should start waking up and do some history research as to what started it all, as the only way to not make the same mistakes over and over again "Is to learn from History"

[edit on 19-1-2009 by Fett Pinkus]