We are in the middle of the tribulation!

reply to post by Ranger23


Actually I believe that we are at the end of the tribulation period. Not everyone believes that there is a 7 year tribulation period, nor that there is a human Antichrist. I personally believe that the tribulation period started after 70 AD and the fall of Jerusalem. All the stuff that has gone on since then, for example: The Crusades, The Inquisitions, the Black Plague, countless wars including the two World Wars, countless natural disasters, are all part of the end times events. As we get closer to the final Judgment events such as this continue to happen at a faster rate. The beasts are all countries, which corresponds with Daniels prophetic description of the beasts.

If you have never heard of this theory, there is a reason why. It was suppressed by the Roman Catholic Church over time. They replaced it with Preterism and Futurism (the one you are talking about), both of which came from the Jesuit Order of the RCC. Believe it or not if you are not a Roman Catholic, you should have been taught the same school of prophecy that I am talking about, as it was the original version used by all the protestant churches.

reply to post by TheRandom1

The Bible was not written by God, but by people who had a "God experience", I hate when pastors say that the Bible is the "Word of God".

OK, so you admit that the bible was written by men, do you believe everything that men tell you ?


For example, the men who wrote the bible claimed that the omniscient omnipotent creator of everything, was on earth as a man wrestling a man and lost. Do you believe that bit ?


The men who wrote the bibles, also wrote about corpses coming out of their graves and walking into town. No one actually witnessed this earth shattering event, but the men/man who wrote the bibles claimed it happened .
Do you believe this event actually happened ? If so what evidence led you to believe this amazing tale to be true?

Originally posted by jakeman11
THE RAPTURE IS REAL AND IF YOU DON'T BELEVE IN GOD THEN YOU WILL STAY ON EARTH AND SUFFER FOR SEVEN YEARS!!! THEN IF YOU STILL DON'T BELEVE YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY!!! AMEN

You might want to re-read the part about Jesus sending out his angels to gather OUT of the world, all things that offend.

Do people understand what God's name means who is OF the LIVING, not For the living. His name is "Self existent". So I ask you, do you remember being dead or not born? No, all you remember is life, your life to which you don't remember the beginning and you won't remember the end. We all are "Self existent" OF the LIVING.

Ready for Jesus name. "Self existent salvation" If you want your memory saved, go have a baby, be fruitful and multiply and follow the "son of man", yours. God is character, jesus is character so that when you do the will of God, you are the will of God, thus your will be done, even if that is to end with no line by cutting yourself off for the "Rapture" which means "To Smite" with the hand.

Again, I will repeat Jesus words since I am just as much him as you are. "Re-think, for the kingdom IS AT HAND". I never said, "Give me all your sins", I said, "pick up your cross (child) and bear it." or "Be scattered to the wind". All the choices are yours. Do you choose to be saved or not? If you choose then guess who's saving you...? YOU Truth and Spirit. Spirit is also called Breath. Let your word be yes or no. Truth...everything else is of the diablo, also YOU. Don't be split, be God or Be the devil...it all works out in the end when all are dead so that death has been fully consumed. Then and only then, can the spirit start a new creation.

That's why the heads don't want to drink fully, they know what they have and don't want to start even again, so they would rather reduce then let death over take everyone. Death must be fully consumed...and so it will be.


Peace

reply to post by moocowman


I have faith built on a life time of personal experience.

That's the short version

I have to go to work now.

-Lahara

the scarlet coloured wild beast of revelation is the political rulers (governments) of the earth represented by the United Nations organisation. The false prophet is the anglo american world power (Britain & America)and babylon the great is worldwide false religion (including Christendom, Jews & Islam).

The great tribulation will start when the false Prophet pasuades the kings of the earth to give their authority to the wild beast (UN), then with the new found authority, the UN will destroy false religion earth wide. That will begin the Great Tribulation, the like of hich has never happened before and will never happen again.

So don't worry about the current crisis, things are only going to get worse.

reply to post by moocowman


I served in Iraq. I saw things no one wanted to see. But God was there for me, and I believe in Him. I'm not saying that I follow this doctrine about raptures and whatnot. I don't even believe in aliens, unless they are crossing the us-mexico border but I do believe in a God and I believe in His son.

THE RAPTURE AND 7 YEAR TRIBULATION IS NOT REAL!!!
Jesus Christ, I love how you people sit there and live your life by an anthology of bronze aged stories yet know nothing about it. The whole rapture/tribulation scenario was created in the mid to late 1800's. It was a creation from one man's interpretation. Its an example of how rumor or false info gets turned into fact over time. Its amazing what happens when you take a bunch of different stories, written at different times, and making a puzzle out of it. Putting it together to explain the symbolism and adding meaning to make a chronological time table for the end times. Rapture does not appear once in the bible. Most would be completely surprised to find out what is really stated in the bible and the stuff that people believe is in the bible.

Originally posted by Ranger23
I served in Iraq. I saw things no one wanted to see. But God was there for me, and I believe in Him...

I don't mean to be rude, I served in the first gulf war, but I've never understood what people mean by 'God was with me' or 'there for me'?

How do you know, is there a feeling?

I've been in some dangerous situations, that I survived, but I never had the feeling anyone was there with me other than my mates.

So why did you need god there to survive and I didn't?

(sry if this is a little off topic, but it's still loosely related)

reply to post by MINDoverFAITH


Mindoverfaith, huh.

I don't think that is the case. While the words rapture and tribulation may be new words, I think they were developed as people began to understand the deeper concepts of the Bible.

Example, Noah and his family were raptured during the tribulation. The Ark and the Flood are plot devices symbolizing the idea of the rapture (Ark) and the tribulation (Flood).

I think the real problem is that you read the book but did not understand.

That is probably why you don't understand why the OP began this thread and cannot see what is going on around you.

I disagree that we are in the middle however, I think we are near the End.


[edit on 16-1-2009 by huckfinn]

[edit on 16-1-2009 by huckfinn]

Originally posted by ANOK
[

LOL that's a completely media propaganda fed hypothesis.

China dictator wants to rule the world?

The only ones I see trying to do that right now are the bankers and other high finance organisations.
If revelations is really about an event to still happen it won't be as obvious as you think, and it won't follow Earthly media created 'reality'.

I believe the 'christians' are going to be in for a major shock when they find out how deceived they've been.

agreed!

the 'China Dictator' is juat an attempt to define the Red Dragon-Beast
or the Scarlet harlot riding the dragon-beast.

every should know the Red-Shield = Rothschild,
the world wide banker Empire which is the 'Beast-Dragon'-government,

but your correct, all of 'em will deny that the Hous of Rothschild
and the elite black-nobility Families which comprise the Empire of the
Illuminati... already control the worlds nations, peoples, tongues
&
might soon cause all to receive the mark of the Beast
which is the 'red-shield'.


thanks for the set-up ANOK,

We could be,
2009 + 3.5years = 2012.5
Who is being elected and is rising to power for 2009? Seems a possibility in Obama being the wolf in sheeps clothing, America has been decieved before on home turf.

But then again many other things need to happen, far as I am concerned Mirror world 1 is experiencing the plagues whist some of us are not seeing it or are aware of it because it would be too frightful to witness and God would not want that. Mirror world 2 is just waiting for the souls to arrive and God to show up.

Originally posted by St Udio
thanks for the set-up ANOK,

Well that IS the great deception isn't it?

The 'system' (capitalism/government/bankers/the whole bloody lot), that claims to bring freedom, only brings slavery and more deception.

It deceives on every level. It lies about what God is, it lies about what freedom is (God gave us free-will, man taketh away), it lies about what christianity is, it lies and deceives even the elect...

seems to me that it may be a mistake to entertain the notions that are presented by the elite to make themselves into parts of the beast systems

they assume they understand what the story means and then try to squeeze themselves into the roles, afterall, if lucifer is their hero, they WANT to be whatever role is cast opposite of God .. .like a play book of the end of the world, complete with actors and actresses. i don't think it'll go down like they are assuming and any attempt to make themselves the key figures of the text will ultimately be replaced by the real mccoys, a startling and humbling revelation. it's really not like God, to let us dictate to Him, who is what and when and where, but the other way around.

perhaps they know but i'm certainly not betting the farm on it. it's alot more likely they only wish those roles were theirs to play.

daniel's statue was complete a very long time ago.
the trick is understanding that just because it was completed a couple thousand years ago, doesn't mean the rest of the text applies to the end of its completion. in fact, we don't have to wait thousands of years for it to be completed -- it's already done -- and we don't have to assume that its completion signals the immediate end either.

all we have to do is consider that the toes have never stopped being in control since their formation. it may not look like they are in control, but they are. you may think they've long since been dethroned, but they haven't.

the beast that was, is not, and yet is, has never been out of power since it was created at the formation of the toes of daniel's statue.

the rest is more of the same to culmination.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by Ranger23
The book of Revelation is ... complicated prophecy
However, the way i see it, it is written as two seperate prophecies.
The first one discusses the rise of "the beast from the sea". ...

OK, agreed

The second beast is called the "red" beast and it is oppressed by the nation of Babylon who is corrupt and sexually explicit, as well as extremely militaristic. (the USA in 30 years). This beast (which I believe stands for Communist China and North Korea) joins with ten other nations to start a nuclear war against America and her NATO allies. In this war, the entire world is either nuked to ash or swept by radioactive winds.

HuH?,
what i read is the 2nd beast is to 'arise from the land'...(Rev)
who comes to power uttering flatteries (see Daniel)
who uses the 'authority' & power of the 1st beast to consolidate & lead (Rev)
who makes destruction come from the skies
who gives 'life' to the image of the 1st beast
who makes all worship the 1st beast & all to recieve the Mark
Armies move at his command
and much more...

The battle of Armageddon occurs when the Chinese dictator ..., leads whatever remains of the worlds armies to Armageddon where they fight one last battle for oil before they die.

? whatever remains of the world's armies ?
Aren't there 200,000,000 in that army... and they ride in chariots or are calvery on horse & carry only bows, swords, spears as weapons...
no 'thundersticks' or other biblical description of modern weaponry



the confounding thing is, we need to bounce between Revelation / Daniel / Ezekiel to try to mesh together a recognizable profile of the end-times leader

and that's where an idea of a false prophet who accompanies a anti-christ
gets born...

i'm in your camp that there is a division between the 1st beast from the sea & the 2nd beast from the land (nations or civilization)
& there is a division between the regular, on-going tribulation which has been around since way before 70AD
and the ratched-up Great Tribulation during the regime of the 2nd beast
who arises from the land... only to be revealed as the man-of-perdition,
the anti-christ who will arise at the end-of-age.


it is still unknown just when the Gog-Magog war transpires,
but it is probably the campaigns after the anti-christ is revealed and the anti-christ empire is attacked, just right before the Armageddon battle...



hey, its now 6:40am, saturday...and i'm not on top of my energy yet

reply to post by Ranger23


Yep.. I agree we are in tribulation... the tribulation probably started officially with WWI & WWII, a great depression is bound to hit us but I don't state this from having quoted foxnews, the bible speaks of a vast devestation of crops, such hasn't happened yet, it happened during the last great depression, but it will happen again... and WWIII will probably be the final war... but I could be wrong it could always be WWIV

reply to post by ANOK


Well, this could seem offensive, but I've been under heavy fire several times and it just seemed that someone was watching over me. I don't know how to say it really. I just don't feel that we're left here alone in the world.

Originally posted by Ranger23
....I just don't feel that we're left here alone in the world.

Ok thanx, no not offensive at all (?). Thanx for replying I really didn't expect one.

I understand what you're saying, personally I call that the subconscious mind. Your subconscious mind is what controls your conscious mind. It is what I believe people refer to as God.
That is what you're talking to when you pray. You can use your subconscious to control your conscious mind by self-talk, which is just like praying.

Your subconscious also helps to keep your conscious mind stable and gives you that sense of being watched over.

You can use the self-talk method to do many things, quit smoking, control your fear, love what you hate, anything that is psychological...

I believe it also works on a grander scale, as in whole communities thinking the same thing creates social changes etc. This method is predominate in the media, as the media injects thoughts, lies and truth, into our subconscious that then eventually become conscious thoughts or acts. Of course you have no idea this is happening to you. That's how once myths and lies become everyday truths and visa-versa.

Anyway sorry for OT post...Please 'pray' that we don't destroy ourselves with hate and fear....

[edit on 1/20/2009 by ANOK]

Christians have been saying thissince it was written. There is no more babylon that does not mean change it to say USA so it still fits

Well, this could seem offensive, but I've been under heavy fire several times and it just seemed that someone was watching over me. I don't know how to say it really. I just don't feel that we're left here alone in the world.

Yes that person watching over you was the guy laying down the heavy fire.God was there for all the civilians in iraq we killed and he was there for everyone who died in the twin towers.

but anyways could this BS i mean beast from the sea just be the christians trying to villify Poseidon like they did with all the greek gods? Why do you think the devil is always drawn with a trident? But the christians needed to convert everyone so jesus was made to look like zues. And christians needed everyone praying to one god but once again have to change things to keep everyone happy. So instead of praying to your god of _____ we have saints you can pray to. So they change and change and change things so that is why we have a christmas tree easter bunny and halloween.