France and Germany work for Peace.

French President Jacques Chirac has said he supports Germany's view that war in Iraq must be avoided if at all possible.
He said France and Germany "have the same judgement on this crisis" and that their consecutive presidencies of the United Nations Security Council were "fully co-ordinated".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Germany will be President of the UN security council.France has a Veto and may use it.Russia may also Veto.China normally abstains unless the resolution in question is in their region.

If the US and UK go ahead and ignore UN vetos it must surely be the end of the UN and international law.We may be entering a new era of international relations where might is right.Disenfranchised nations will race to acumulate military power or have law,trade,imposed on them.A Pax Americanaor International Anarchy may be our choice.

France working for peace eh ? It wouldn't have anything to do with billions of dollars worth of contracts it has and will recieve from Iraq.
Let's face facts France, Germany, Russia are looking out for themselves, they don't care about the people of Iraq. This 'peace initiative' is just a smokescreen for their own agenda.

are you suggesting that there is a country who's intentions in Iraq are altruistic because they care for the people?

Or working for the status quo?

I'd have to agree w/ MS.

So basically France and Germany hasn't been given a big enough piece of the post-Saddam pie? The US just needs to sweeten the pot, that's all.

Iraq owes Russia billions that they want - they will vote from an economic perspective, imho. If the US/UK promise them money - they'll side with the US/UK.

JB, you bring up a big point about the possible end of international law. Though, I think it was over long ago in certain ways - the UN doesn't enforce it's will and hasn't for a long time. They pass resolutions, big deal. Iraq has thumbed its nose at (I think) 16 prior UN resolutions. Iraq has proved the UN�s uselessness.

"are you suggesting that there is a country who's intentions in Iraq are altruistic because they care for the people?"

Someone who pro-immediate war please answer that.
**Psst, the USA is NOT the right answer!! ***

"Iraq has proved the UN uselessness."
Nope, I'd say when it comes to proving the UN useless by thumbing their noses to successive resolutions that, well, stop the death of people, the prize goes to everybody's favorite US sattelite country.....Israel!
***Pssst, could it be because the USA is the UN's primary enforcing muscle? ***

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRK !!!!! BERK BERK BERK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at these 2 wonderfull hypocrites !

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I totaly agree with MS & BoB88 !

OTH, Lupe wrote a good phrase, and that's not common !

And last but not least :

" If the US and UK go ahead and ignore UN vetos it must surely be the end of the UN and international law. "

Don't make me dreaming..........It should be so nice if the UN were down once for all.

[Edited on 22-1-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

Germany and France don't want their under the table oil/weapons deals with Saddam to come on for the World to see in the light....so they play these holier than thou games at the UN.

Oh, throw Russia and China in the pot too.

As for the UN falling apart....good! The US pretty much puts the most resources in running that BS organization only to get scumbags using it against us. Anyone that promotes Syria and Libya in the UN is a scumbag.

Let's just forget the hypocracy involved in the first part of MT69 reply and just go straight for the obvious error.

Currently the USA is the UN biggest debtor owing over one billion dollars.For more go to:

www.unausa.org...://www.unausa.org/policy/NewsActionAlerts/info/sosltr399.asp

Ain't is funny?

The USA gives far and away the most cash to the UN and yet folks have the nut sack to say the US "OWES" the UN jack #.

LOL

bugger off.

You guys say that France & Germany are hypocriet now but to me America also has a hidden agenda with Iraq. To me it looks like America (or even better > the Bush gouvernment) wants to overthrow the Saddam gouvernment install a "democratic" gouvernment. But according to me (so that is IMHO before someone starts #ting again ) the purpose of that "democratic" gouvernment is to get also nice treats for oil.

There's no war wich has no Economical purpose! That's why I have that Avatar

And damn my english sux

So my conclusion?: Big thumbs up to Germany & France whom are (if you don't look to all the rest ofcourse ) anti war

[Edited on 23-1-2003 by B]

Malsua obviously has his head in the sand.I apologise about that link try this one which details the USA's official debt to the UN currently.

www.globalpolicy.org...

B,Don't worry about your Belgium/English at ATS we call it Ultra-Speak.

Originally posted by John bull 1

B,Don't worry about your Belgium/English at ATS we call it Ultra-Speak.

...............prrrrrrrrt...........

And you can laugh if you want, I'm probably the only one on ATS who have a dictionnary and try to improve his poor english.

BTW, I'm not upset with you. But if you want to help me, sometimes,you can tell me when I do an error ( grammar, spelling..etc...). ( Just sometimes,not all the times, otherwise, you'll have allways to help me )

UNfortunately it seems that the French and German governemtns have been turning their attnetions to politicking in NATO as well and may have persuade such states as Belgium and more importantly Luxembourg to side with them to scupper any support of a war. This could of course be critical as even if the allies did not supply fighting men and machines the logistical aspect would become crtical. (the NATO aspect was in a reuters article in read yesterday but can`t find, feel free to look)

On the peoples motivations there is a link below which provides some good subject and more links.

www.guardian.co.uk...

www.guardian.co.uk...

I think the seond link to be quite good for sensible debate,don`t think it reaches a conclusion but should help people find out/learn more, think it adds fuel to the fire of peoples suspect motives in this conflict.

(I`ll tell you when you do an error, oh sorry thats make an error )

Thanks for providing a picture of the two biggest thieves against the Iraqi people. The two men who made deals with Saddam behind the UN's back in order to benefit themselves and Saddam, while keeping the Iraqi people out of the $$$ loop.