Im sick of the "Im Sick Of" mini-wars about Israel/Palestine

Im sick of the "Im Sick of" mini-wars about Israel/Palestine

Ok. Now things are really starting to get sick. I am all for discussion of current world events, historical events, popular events, and even the discussions of the pure rediculous and fantasy.

But seriously, all this back and forth, pro this, anti that, semi this, semi that, has created a series of mini-wars here at ATS.

Just 3 weeks ago, I watched members exchange ideas, stories and theories with each other, getting along like a community. Of course there were disagreements, little stances on one point of view versus another.

But this has changed dramatically.

This war going on with the Israeli and the Palestinians has reached across almost half way around the world and has turned once friendly discussion into literal war cries, name calling, thrashing and bashing. What were once friends with common interests, has now turned into the likes of a "Hatfield vs McCoy" battle!

I do not know which is worse, the war between the Israeli and Palestinians or the wars going on here. And they ARE wars.

I have been a member of this fabulous community for only a short time, but long enough to see that this is indeed a community of common interest. But like a bomb going off in the middle of the community, the series of mini-wars has shattered that bond tremendously.

This thread is intended for the neutral, for those who want and desire to not choose any side, but to see this whole thing from the point of view that everything can be seen clearly, both in Gaza and here at ATS.

This thread is NOT intended to bring one side or the other to fight their little wars. Keep your little wars in their appropriate places please.

This thread is for those of us who are neutral and want to discuss this ongoing war with the Israeli and Palestinians in a netural arena, from the neurtral prospective, and not have to endure all this back and forth posting war.

This is the "de-militarized zone", the "green zone", the "no weapons allowed" zone. It is a sanctuary for points of view that view the big picture, not just one half of it or the other.



Cheers!!!!

Here are my views on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

For a long time, a very long time, that land we all know as Israel has changed hands back and forth for centuries. It has been divided, made whole, re-divided again and again. The peoples that have lived there have been pushed and shoved back and forth from one boarder line to the other.

Like rats in a maze, both the Israeli people and the Palestinian people have endured pain, suffering, victories and defeats. And on both sides of the fence, it has been the innocent civilians who have paid the ultimate price.

One side claims it is their land, the other claims it is their land. Yet looking at current maps of Israel, much of the land area is unpopulated, un-developed, literal wasteland. Is there not enough room in there to portion that land so that both sides have a fair share?

There has to be. But why cant there be a fair compromise? Why cant both sides abide by their agreements made in the numerous negotiations that have taken place in decades past? Why must any one side suffer because of the other? There has to be a solution that the two sides can live with, and live in peach with.



Cheers!!!!

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!
I hear you it started out good now it has run its course

Originally posted by RFBurns
But seriously, all this back and forth, pro this, anti that, semi this, semi that, has created a series of mini-wars here at ATS.

It's not mini-wars. It's simply the dedication of a thread to a particular viewpoint for better understanding. Often times in a popular thread an opposing viewpoint can be overlooked or not garner enough attention to balance the debate. If a thread is dedicated to both sides of that debate, both sides are more easily presented.

I did not make my thread with the intention of creating some sort of "mini-war". I was merely explaining the side of the "anti-Israel" crowd. If the side of the "pro-Israel" crowd is entitled to it's own thread, I believe the "anti-Israel" crowd is as well.

That's basically my reasoning.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I did not make my thread with the intention of creating some sort of "mini-war". I was merely explaining the side of the "anti-Israel" crowd. If the side of the "pro-Israel" crowd is entitled to it's own thread, I believe the "anti-Israel" crowd is as well.

That's basically my reasoning.

Nothing wrong with each side having their own arena to discuss their points of view. And it is also justifiable for the neutral to have their arena to discuss the issue without being surrounded by either side in their own "dojo", thus is why I created this thread, for the neutral prospective.

Even in those others, including yours, which is new, has already began to appear just like the others, a "mini-war". Im not saying your creating a mini-war, no one is creating a mini-war..the issue has done that all by itself. The players are just that, players in a mini-war created by an issue that obviously must have sides in order to be an issue, or conflict.

But this isnt about taking sides. This arena, or thread, is for those who wish to remain neutral but also want to discuss what is going on over there without having to duck incomming post ammo and taking cover from thrown reply grenades...ie the name calling of anti semi this or pro zion that, all of that to which is my point..a mini war of name calling, catagorizing and labeling of members who just 3 weeks ago were all sitting at the bar buying each other drinks over silly rock or UFO pictures.

An analogus description...on one side is the Federation..the other the Romulan Empire..and here..it is the Neutral Zone.



Cheers!!!!

Notice how peaceful it is here in the neutral zone! The silence speaks loudly!

No wars, no name calling, no labeling, no trashing and bashiing. Just peace.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 6-1-2009 by RFBurns]

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!

Just had to make a little noise in the Neutral Zone. Started to seem like a Utopia in here.

Actually I wondered about a real life Neutral Zone that rockets cant get across...both sides sacrifice equal amount of land and keep a buffer. Just a thought.

By the way, ever notice how Utopia is about the only word that starts with a vowel sound but you put "A" in front of it? Normally its "an" orange, "an" apple, hell, its even "an historical moment. But its not "an" Utopia or "an" Utopian society... Strikes me odd it does.

reply to post by midnightbrigade


Interesting point. Ya that is a bit odd. But what about the word "war", try putting "an" in front of that..doesnt work very well either.

Or "a" angle, or "a" objective, those dont work too well.

Nothing wrong with noise in the Neutral Zone! As long as the noise is neutral your doing ok.


Cheers!!!!

Well, that's what I mean. You wouldn't say A objective or A anecdote. But you do say A Utopia. And that's like the only word that you do that for. But I digress. Back on topic, I think you're right for putting this up. Who knows if it will hit with the masses, but at least they got a place to go

Originally posted by RFBurns
Im sick of the "Im Sick of" mini-wars about Israel/Palestine
I do not know which is worse, the war between the Israeli and Palestinians or the wars going on here.

For real?

Um, I'd say the war in Gaza hands down.

I'll take bickering online any day over a literal bloodbath.
It's easier to just log off or ignore a post than a bomb or a bullet coming your way.
Apples and oranges all the way.

There are no wars here.

I think the bickering is not as bad as some people have made it out to be. People are overwhelmingly commenting on what is current and when this dies down they will jump to the next thing new disaster.

It will be okay.

- Lee

I for one am not sick of the posts, because the updates on the situation are informative. I just people wouldn't fling all of the pointed comments and insults. I understand that the conflict is multifaceted but as SO put it, wars are not won or lost here. The I'm sick of threads and the Gaza/Israel threads probably have the staff's hands pretty full. I personally won't post in those threads as of right now because there is too much vitriol from both sides and it can be infectious. I'm with you RF, I think I'll stay in the "neutral zone".

I'm very interested to see how Obama will respond to the sudden increase in conflict. His own no comment interviews and the UN failure to bare its teeth should leave for a few interesting days after the elect is sworn in.

I also feel that people are forgetting that this conflict has been going on
for a very long time, there is no need to get so emotionally evolved all of the sudden, while it seems to have been skipping their mind before this.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
I for one am not sick of the posts, because the updates on the situation are informative. I just people wouldn't fling all of the pointed comments and insults. I understand that the conflict is multifaceted but as SO put it, wars are not won or lost here. The I'm sick of threads and the Gaza/Israel threads probably have the staff's hands pretty full. I personally won't post in those threads as of right now because there is too much vitriol from both sides and it can be infectious. I'm with you RF, I think I'll stay in the "neutral zone".

Welcome to the "Neutral Zone".

I fully agree with you and SO, wars are not won or lost in any forum. And I find much of the threads informative. I find it however, to be like seperating the wheat from the chaff, like walking on a minefield with no map to get at the information. I dont find such threads filled with name calling and labeling to be very informative at all.

Originally posted by lee anoma
There are no wars here.

I think the bickering is not as bad as some people have made it out to be. People are overwhelmingly commenting on what is current and when this dies down they will jump to the next thing new disaster.

It will be okay.

Id like to think it will be ok too. And I would like to believe that it is...yet another name for it....overwhelmingly commenting...on what is current. It appears to me as more like overwhelmingly taking it too personally on either side to the point of slapping post it note labels on people to the extreme while commenting.

Surely people are not like a box of marbles rolling where the box is tilted...are they? The box is tilted today on Gaza, all the marbles roll that way, then when this dies down, the box gets tilted another way and all the marbles roll the other way?

If that is in fact the case...the analogy of it...then is there any question to how easily the marbles are rolled to the direction and tune of news propeganda, no matter which side puts it out?

Id like to believe that people are not that easily gullable and swayed like the tilting of a box of marbles.

Its a sensitive subject no doubt, and will hit many on a personal level because of their lineage, while to others its simply something to choose for, like going which way the wind blows...falling in line. Im sure that SO's u2u he sent out yesterday reached every single member here at ATS. I sat back and just read the posts after that..still seeing the same pattern going on.

My term "mini-wars" is just a name, didnt know what else to call it. Debate?...alot more than debating happeing...discussion?...Im not so sure when there is so much anti-semi, pro-zoni, pro Pali, anti Israeli....so much labeling and lines in the sand being drawn. It is just difficult for me to remain neutral when surrounded by feuding sides over a conflict in that area where clearly both sides of the conflict are at huge fault, stemming from decades ago, and even centuries ago. Trying to interact in those threads from a neutral prospective, is like taking stray fire from the shots being flung by those who have put themselves on either side of that line in the sand.

And its not limited to one thread that supports one side or the other thread that supports the other side, it is apparent in all of them..except here of course. And I hope it stays that way. To me, if the masses dont pick up on it..doesnt matter. If it doesnt bleed, it doesnt lead. Are we seeing the exact same thing here at the forums to the likes of how news media throws up the bloodbath to lead a newscast for the attention attraction rating? Is that true information exchange?

I call it as I am seeing it. There is nothing fogging my neutral view of whats taking place, both in Gaza and here. Like I was saying earlier, just 3 weeks ago much of those members were laughing and joking and patting each other on the back, now they are at each other's throats..in a forum setting of course. It is fortunate that it IS only a forum, text on a screen, and not a real battlefield with real weapons.

Honestly..if it was a real battlefield with real weapons...would there be simple exchanges of vocal opinions crossing that line in the sand?

All of this is analogus, a comparison, a level of psycological example.

I certianly do hope this settles down, both in Gaza and here.

I heard on the radio yesterday that there is a push for a cease fire for today in Gaza. I hope that does come through. War never solved anything, all war has ever done was kill alot of people, create more lines in the sand to be crossed generations later, and kill even more people.

These two sides, the Israeli and Palestinians, need to stop their aggression against each other, put an end to this centuries old hate and conflict against each other, and start living in peace. There is plenty of territory there for both. There is no reason why either side should be fighting each other over a land mass that is no bigger than some states along the east coast. Perhaps both Israel and Palestine need an example of how a people of diverse culture can live together in even tighter areas and not have to resort to 30 foot high barbed wire fence, flinging bottle rockets, suicide bombings and continuous conflict over land that doesnt have any real mineral or natural resource value to any significat degree to be fighting for...to be sacrificing so many innocent for.

"War...what is it good for....absolutely nothing"!! quote from a song.




Cheers!!!!





[edit on 6-1-2009 by RFBurns]

Originally posted by ThinkingNotLiving
I'm very interested to see how Obama will respond to the sudden increase in conflict. His own no comment interviews and the UN failure to bare its teeth should leave for a few interesting days after the elect is sworn in.

I also feel that people are forgetting that this conflict has been going on
for a very long time, there is no need to get so emotionally evolved all of the sudden, while it seems to have been skipping their mind before this.

Very good point! Most do recognize that this conflict between Israel and Palestine has been ongoing for hundreds of years, even thousands of years. But what is also apparent, is that some just look at the last few years and ignore the history of why today's events have unfolded.

Everything has a history to it. That history is what makes up what is today. Every single society on this planet has its own history and is very much a part of that society, including ours here in the US.

I never understood the postion of not applying the whole history to a situation. Doing so only gives partial information, to which most partial information tends to be in favor of one side over the other, in which case is not a true account for the why.

I have noticed that some who have taken the time to research the entire historical record, they have taken a different stance on this entire situation and it shows in their posts. Im very glad that they are discovering the facts and not just basing opinions on a short timeline of history.

All quiet in the Neutral Zone!



Cheers!!!!

All quiet in the Neutral Zone!

Here is a little news out of the Gaza strip.

Hundreds protest over Gaza Violence

France comments on latest developments in Gaza

Rice set to go U.N. to work on Gaza ceasefire


Cheers!!!!

Let me bring in a little music for this peaceful thread.. I thought Pink Floyd would be a good choice


I was spending my time in the doldrums
I was caught in the cauldron of hate
I felt persecuted and paralyzed
I thought that everything else would just wait
While you are wasting your time on your enemies
Engulfed in a fever of spite
Beyond your tunnel vision reality fades
Like shadows into the night

To martyr yourself to caution
Is not going to help at all
Because there'll be no safety in numbers
When the Right One walks out of the door

Can you see your days blighted by darkness?
Is it true you beat your fists on the floor?
Stuck in a world of isolation
While ivy grows over the door

So I open my door to my enemies
And I ask could we wipe the slate clean
But they tell me to please go # myself
You know you just can't win.

This song has many meanings.. But when you think about it. It kind of fits in. No one wins.
War never proves who is right.. Only who is left..


[edit on 6-1-2009 by zysin5]

I think that for me, I had to be here for a few years before I really learned how to get around the emotionality of others. You have to stand for what you believe and express emotion appropriately when you feel passionate about something. However, you can't let your emotion control your analytical faculty, and you can't mistake your analytic faculty with the desire to be right.


You also can't allow yourself to get goaded up too much by any particular poster. Argue the view points, but even some of those who are the loudest of those I disagree with don't waste time arguing with me too long, and I don't waste too much time arguing with them.

We both read each others posts, and hopefully it informs us both.

For those of you not familiar with the Decision 08 forum, this is very similar to it, although I would have to say the sense of justification probably runs deeper with the Middle East conflict.

Ultimately, I fall on the side which believes if you are attempting to justify something, then you are doing something you shouldn't be. I don't care if this is the IDF attempting to Justify why they are killing children in schools, or if it's Hamas trying to justify why they are lobbing missiles into Israel.

If you are attempting to Justify something, you are simply doing something you shouldn't.

reply to post by RFBurns


I look at it this way...if I was born and am currently living on either side of the conflict I would probably do what I can to cause as much damage as possible to the enemy. If you are not living there then your opinion really doesn't matter much to those who live there and have to deal with the crap on a daily basis. We're just sitting on our asses and typing away, what a rough life it is.