Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

reply to post by projectvxn


Please don't generalize "typical Californians" as such, there's more conservatives here then people like to think #1. Orange county & San Diego are testaments to that not to mention gun ownership and advocacy. #2 Glimmering generalities only further stratification & aid in antagonism, both concepts we don't need any excess of right now.

And Yes, I'm a Californian, Yes I would be considered a "liberal" to some, YES I do believe we have the right to bare arms(dig on target shooting myself), and NO not everyone is anti-gun here by damn sight(pun intended )...



[edit on 9-1-2009 by Shakesbeer]

Here's something odd. A very similar event happened in New Orleans the same night.

Family wants police charged in New Orleans killing

Could be a conspiracy. Could just be overworked cops on New Years. Could be totally unrelated events. Whatever the case, both are tragic situations.

[edit on 9 Jan 09 by Isaac Tanner Madsen]

I hate to jump in on this as this topic has been beat to death, but heres my two cents.

No cop in his right mind would shoot a man in the back, in front of all of those people, lets get that established.

Claiming that this was just some racist, crooked, cop shooting someone this man for no reason other than he hates black people is weak sauce. Here is some logic to back up this claim:

Crooked cops are very good at being sneaky, crooked and crafty almost always go hand in hand. Obviously there was nothing sneaky about what went down in this video.

Is the cop in question racist? Who knows? But where is the trail of publically slain black people? If this racist cop could not restrain himself in such a public venue, then why was he able to restrain himself in prior situations?

If this was a case of this cop being crooked and having a fetish for executing black people there are much better ways, and locations to do this. Anyone who has spent any time in law enforcement is bound to learn the best way to conceal certain crimes (this goes back to crooked and crafty), certainly this man could have killed many black men and staged the killings to look like random gang violence (or several other scenarios).

The best logical explanation for intentional murder is that this cop shot this man as a result of being suddenly enraged (hot blood) or as an act of psychosis. Perhaps this cop was crazy, or perhaps he just snapped under the pressure of the situation. I think that we can probably eliminate the chance that he is crazy as there is a good chance that he had to take a psych test before getting his job. Most departments require this, but this one may be an exception.

Now is a good time for the thinking people to stop letting passion cloud their critical thinking abilities. Yeah, I know f* the police and all that, but the fact of the matter is that the evidence doesn't seem to support the claim of intentional execution.

Before I get any further let me just point out that i am not defending what this cop did. What I see on video warrants an investigation, indictment, and a criminal trial followed by a civil trial. i would hope that in the event of my accidentally or intentionally being shot by anyone would culminate in the shooter going to jail and having to compensate my family.

I think the more plausible explanation is that this cop accidentally shot this man. Again, accidentally shooting someone is very bad and the end result is equally bad rather malice is involved or not, but it just seems based on the circumstances and his body language that his shooting this man was unintentional.

reply to post by times up?


Don't want you to think that I disagree with you. A good portion you say is most likely true. But I think what we, as civilians are thinking is...

"Why is this cop not already in jail or being questioned?"

Jay-in-ar pointed out another story last page about a guy, who cops had a "no knock" warrant (wrong house mind you) and when the cops came into his house, he shot and killed one of those cops. The man is now on death row.

So, I think that the main reason civilians get so upset is to the fact that cops are not treated the same way. At this point, it really doesn't matter if it was an accident or not. Let him spend the time in jail like anyone else in this situation would. He should be held, and the investigation should be conducted while he is behind bars.

What's good for the goose....

Again, I am not disputing your point at all. Just saying.

Originally posted by Isaac Tanner Madsen
Here's something odd.

From the news article:

but Riley defended his officers' actions

Nope...not odd at all.

But good find there mate. I don't think it is a conspiracy, just happening more often now and people are getting tired of it.

reply to post by clearmind


"..confusing your weapon for a taser....that will be his defense. "

Which would mean the Cop literally doesn't know left from right...

I hope he gets the death penalty.

"I don't know my left from my right" is not an excuse.

*'Tazer-confusion' is Orwellian NewsSpeak Vol 12.

reply to post by TARBOX


I don't know anything about how they do things in California, but I imagine that there are grand jury procedures being scheduled right now. I cannot see a situation where this guy isn't at least charged with some form of accidental homicide. It won't be long before we see him i cuffs and being escorted in and out of a courthouse. This is the part that I am most concerned with actually.

If the cop is charged with anything less than the worst murder charge that California has there will be more riots. If this cop is found guilty of anything less than the worst murder charge there will be riots. If i know this, everyone else knows this. So that being the case it will be next to impossible for this man to get a fair trial. Even in light of the terrible circumstances surrounding all of this, it will be even more tragic to see mob violence overrule someones Constitutional Rights.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by times up?]

reply to post by Exuberant1


Does California have the death penalty?

Oh, and if he uses the defense that you think he will use, it will be no problem to convict him of whatever statute covers accidental homicide.

reply to post by times up?


We citizens pay the police to protect us with our ever staggering taxes. The police are to be the boys in blue that protect those citizens who pay them so well and trust them. Citizens from time to time break laws and can be subject to arrest. In the past police were not interested in locking everyone up but instead gave warnings and simply kept the peace. Cops would actually get involved and help to settle disputes. An arrest subject like the regular guy in the street should expect to be treated humanly and only shot if he drew a weapon.

The least crime the shooter could be charged with would be 3rd degree manslaughter or any thing above that. If you drive over a pedestrian for any reason you can expect to be charged with vehicular manslaughter. So in front of a room full of witnesses and fellow officers the shooter kills an unarmed suspect and is not arrested. That says to the public that the tax payers are being treated like animals while the cops they employ are not subjects of the law.

At some point the economic devastation of the deepening depression will pit the citizens against the police in large scale riots and blood baths. Most of the local municipalities are going broke and will cut out police and fire ultimately.

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Alpha_Magnum]

I would bet that the weapon was a Glock or Springfield XD with the saftety trigger mechanism vs a safety button or lever per se. Squeeze too hard and you unlock the safety and discharge the weapon. Not very "safe".

reply to post by times up?


It doesn't matter if the death was accidental or not. Right now...this man should be held without bail before AND during the court proceedings. If a civilian did the shooting, they would be. So why is this cop different? From the last news source, he was still at home, not answering any questions. Why? Why is it ok for him to sit at home and not be in jail? That is the biggest question.

As far as the riots go, there will be riots no matter which way it goes. and yes, they will be worse if he is found with a lesser charge.

If you have read my posts on this thread, I am not a cop hater....but they should not receive special treatment. The law is the law and should apply to everyone the same.

Edit to add here....
I read your post a little wrong, and we don't differ except that the court won't let the "constitutional rights" go out the window this time just to save riots. I hope they learned their lesson in the past.



[edit on 9-1-2009 by TARBOX]

Originally posted by TARBOX

From the news article:

but Riley defended his officers' actions

True. That does make a significant difference.

Originally posted by TarBox
Nope...not odd at all.

But good find there mate.

I don't think it is a conspiracy, just happening more often now and people are getting tired of it.

I agree. I'm tired of it. I don't think it's a conspiracy either, though it's possible to some degree. I think it's more just the fact that it was New Years, and cops expect bad things to happen. Therefore, things went awry and the officers are taking the fall for it. I, for one, have respect for most officers of the law in my area. I was pulled over myself on New Years Eve for failing to yield to traffic. I apologize to society for having been such an idiot that night. Things could have been much worse, but I'm able to stay calm in such situations, which can make a big difference for the officers. They don't really know what to expect when they approach any situation. These guys have to be prepared for everything.

The taser argument is meritless...
If he had used his taser, he would have tased his fellow officers.

This was, on appearance, an execution.

reply to post by zerbot565


The video put a smile on your face? You clearly are one sick bastard.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by Ionized

 

"Under natural law, that mob should act together to restrain and remove abusers of 'power'. Unfortunately, that mob has been trained to subordinate at all expense.... "

I just have a couple things to add to the thread/discussion.

1 - I love the photo

2- The problem with that theory is this..
A "mob" usually involves pissed-off people who are acting in retaliation against something or someone (even if only with speech and protest) which actually implies that the opposite is true and that mobs are not "subordinate" or they wouldn't be there in the first place. This is not exactly a "mob" though anyway, not how I saw it in the videos. This was mostly a crowd of curious young onlookers wanting to see what all the fuss was about. I'm honestly not trying to be rude.. But when you really define a "mob" it actually contradicts your statement about a subordinate societal mindset (caused by brainwashing).

3- They didn't exactly know all this would eventually result in someone being killed.. Nor could they have known. What were they supposed to do? Doing almost anything to a police officer can get you beat to hell or worse.. And the presence of the officers staring down onlookers pretty much gave the crowd the idea that doing anything would be a bad idea. Intimidation by a bunch of mean looking men and women with guns and nightsticks would prevent almost anybody from trying to "retaliate"...

4- The situation quickly fell into disarray as soon as the young folks started gaulking at all the excitement (I also believe I read that this occurred on new years eve, which meant there were some young partiers looking for trouble). That's the main reason, IMO, that the officers acted so swiftly and stearnly. They probably didn't want a small fight on a rail car turning into a new years eve brawl.. How easily that could have happened, who knows. That's not the point. The point is that these police officers were trying to "play it safe" by acting aggressively as they did. If it was me I would have done the same thing.

5- When you set all this analyzation and discussion aside we have a video that does not lie.. The cop shot the kid in the back seemingly on purpose which contradicts all logic and common for alot of different reasons.. (many of which have already been pointed out by myself and others).

-ChriS

[edit on 10-1-2009 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by clearmind

 

"..confusing your weapon for a taser....that will be his defense. "

Which would mean the Cop literally doesn't know left from right...

I hope he gets the death penalty.

"I don't know my left from my right" is not an excuse.
*'Tazer-confusion' is Orwellian NewsSpeak Vol 12.

Do you know how many weapons people carry in the city of Oakland??

I do. A split second can cost you your life. Where do you live in Nebraska or some such place?? People are strapped for action here and if you are slow you are dead. That is the fact.

That being said the cop should be charged for either manslaughter or murder in the second degree. You may wonder how those two facts may coexist in the same opinion. You believe this cop murdered with malice aforethought. I happen to believe for whatever reason this officer made a mistake that will cost him dearly. I feel bad for both the victim and the cop.

Let me ask you a question could you put on the badge and deal with approx 200 to 300 angry train riders as you attempt to do your job knowing full well a significant number of those people are probably carrying weapons and in a split second may turn on you and your coworkers.

Grow up dude. In my neighborhood a 16 year old girl working at an ice cream parlor was shot dead in the face by a criminal because he didn't want a witness. A cute young high school girl with her whole life ahead of her shot dead. I didn't see you posting for her. Where is your outrage at that injustice. My son went to school with a boy who was a victim of a gunshot from a robbery across the street. The boy was taking piano lessons across the street from the robbery and was struck by a bullet and paralyzed for life. I know this boy, my 9 yr old son knows this boy and if you knew him it would tear your heart out. There were no protests or riots for this boy an african american by the way. Then the community tells the police "This is unacceptable! Do what you need to do to restore order."

What I am talking about is an environment that is set on a hare trigger for violence. That environment is rife for mistakes. It seems everyone is armed to the teeth these days. Cops make mistakes because they are stressed out. The mistake may include losing control of their emotions. The murder rate in Oakland broke records last year and is on track to break another record this early in the year!

Being a cop in this environment is a challenge to say the least. I could not do the job because I know I am prone to shoot first ask questions later. Everyone wants respect but has a difficult time giving respect.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


*"Do you know how many weapons people carry in the city of Oakland??"

Irrelevant.


*"I could not do the job because I know I am prone to shoot first ask questions later."

That is horrible.

Thanks for telling us what kind of person you are. Now we know what kind of person you are and so can take it into account when reading your posts.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Here is another one for you. A personal story. An old man was being ripped off in a public place. I happened to notice so I jumped out of my car to run off the robbers. As I jumped out of my car a kid no more than 15 yrs old possibly as young as 13 pulled out a pistol and pointed it at my face. I don't carry weapons so I threw my hands in the air. The kid smiled and backed away then ran off. A kid...are you beginning to get the point yet?

Its a shame that the cops tried to lie about the camera's not working and also to allow the officer so much time before interviewing him in the cold room. Have a little problem with some people even defending the cop who obviously shot the suspect execution style while he was already handcuffed. Shooting someone in his back while handcuffed is not only cowardly it also makes clear why you as a people should not give up the right to have firearms.

Anyways the excuse that the suspect had been shot by accident is a big lie. Why would a civil servant have to taze someone that had been cuffed while another cop is putting his knee on his neck. You can see the other officer get up because he was ready to taken to the police station where they could have figured out who was fighting and why.

I'm not surprised though. Lots of cops in the US are not aware about the law and never paid attention while attending training where you learn how to not escalate violent situations. His partner was very close to the murdered victim and could have been hurt by the bullet that went in his back on the floor and ended up in his lungs. Very bad police. And this time someone taped it, but it happens so much that people almost begin to think its normal behavior.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


"The kid smiled and backed away then ran off. A kid...are you beginning to get the point yet? "

OMG. Another Gun-Grabber....

Please start a separate thread if all your posts are going to be about victim disarmament.


[edit on 10-1-2009 by Exuberant1]