Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

reply to post by bubbabuddha


"they are not "why does that surprise anyone?"

It doesn't.

It is just they usually beat or tazer us to death - we are as confused as you are, not surprised.

*Mind the black uniforms, they go well with America's new policy of Summary Execution.

Amerika Das Uber Alles...

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by Kryties

 

Originally posted by Kryties
Having watched my diabetic father being picked up and thrown to the ground by 2 cops as he was in the middle of a seizure, and then having watched as the cops turned it into my father's fault in a courtroom you can imagine I don't like police too much.

You are just another die-hard. Just another extremist that is mad at cops, and you just admitted it. You just admitted you have a problem with cops. Your entire motive has just been proven, you are only here because you hate cops....

Nothing you say has any merit now, because we now know your only reason for being here.

For the record, I am not debating anything, YOU ARE. I just dropped by to study the video, tell you my opinion ( i saw a weapon), and then tell you what I think.

I am not here defending the cops, nor am I defending the suspect. YOU ARE.

Go to bed kid.

I'm gonna go get some friends to put some stars on my posts now! -sarcasm-

[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Pffft, that guy was executed. Your bias shows. You lose

elijio
here are your flames


defcon 5

nice analyzing job on the taser theory. i saw a lot of that on t.v. today. it will be interesting to see if he was caring a taser gun. if so where was it located? sounds like a good defense to me. it will be interesting to see if he is charged with a crime. i don't think he can be charged with capital 1st degree murder because it was not planed in advanced. given his reaction after the shooting, it now appears to be unintentional and perhaps even a stupid mistake of drawing the wrong weapon. the emotionally charged and rambunctious situation caused an adrenaline invoked reaction. Unfortunately, trying to perform under that kind of situation can be confusing, thus causing the police officer to draw his gun instead of his taser. an unfortunate situation all around. if everybody had did there part on both sides and respected one another a little better, it would have never come to this.
p.s. had had to valcano taco's from taco bell this afternoon.....yippy-kay-yay

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
This is a pretty good indictation of where this country is heading.

3rd World..

Both the behavior of the youths and the cops are down right scary.

*BLACK UNIFORMS

*SUMMARY EXECUTION

*SUMMARY ELECTROCUTION

Welcome to America.

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[edit on 7-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by netwarrior


eh...what was his excuse for tasering him? he was cooperating.
this was an execution,plain and simple.
it has been 6 days and no charges filed.
the d.a. should also be arrested for contributing after the fact.think of it this way,if the guy was on the floor,being held by police,and someone ran up and shot him,it would be 1st degree murder.
MURDER,NO INVESTIGATION,JUST 1ST DEGREE MURDER.
THE POLICE STATE IS OUT OF CONTROL. they should be with us,not against us.
but they look down on people,like they,re better. this is why its so easy for them to hurt others and ruin peoples lives. instead of being agressive,shouldn't they look for the reasonable way out of a situation? THEY DON'T BECAUSE THEY ROAM AROUND DOING WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT IMPUNITY.
at what point do i START to defend myself? this is a pinnacle in many ways.
THIS COP BRUTALLY MURDERED SOMEONE AND HE GETS A PAID VACATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W T F ????????????
TAKE THE UNIFORMS OFF , AND YOU HAVE A GANG KILLING.
I'M SUPRISED THEY DIDNT TAKE HIS SNEAKERS
this disgusts me. people on here making excuses for this. we ats'ers should know better.you don't think that when he gets away with this,it won't inspire others to do the same? held to a higher standard???????
YOU MEAN PROTECTED BY A HIGHER STANDARD. BS,WAKE UP

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Spectre0o0]

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[edit on 7-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
reply to post by BlasteR

 

The guy was not handcuffed, and was not searched. He was a potentially dangerous threat if he reached for his pockets or resisted arrest.

Just because he was on the ground, and appeared to be detained doesn't mean he wasn't resisting arrest.

Can you see his muscles in the video? Can you feel him fighting back? No, so you don't know if he was resisting or not.

Ive had to hold someone down before. From a distance it would appear that I had full control and he wasn't resisting, but in reality, this guy was using all his muscle strength to get loose. None of his movements were major, so you couldn't tell he was resisting, but he definitely was.

Generally tasers are used to take control of a suspects muscle movement.


[edit on 6-1-2009 by ALLis0NE]

1 - The guy WAS cooperating. He was also on his stomach showing his hands as a sign that he was unarmed.

2- The man in the grey sweatshirt people have been talking about appears to be holding a cell phone (not a gun) and he looks like he's taking pictures with his cell phone at 1:52. The tall white policeman holding the gun sees this too as they seem to look right at each other. The police officer sees this and watches the guy probably just to make sure he doesn't do anything or get too close. It obviously intensifies the situation.

3- These cops are obviously on edge as any police officer would be in that situation. (after all, they were supposedly responding to a scuffle on the train). With all going on they didn't want another one.. But the situation was extremely chaotic. People walking up with objects in their hands trying to get close enough to take pictures and/or videos with their cell phones obviously didn't help much. There is little doubt that all of this going on at once played a part in the man being shot if it really was even an accident to begin with (which we don't know at this point and may never know).

4- Even though the situation was extremely chaotic, these are BART police officers who are supposed to be trained for exactly these kinds of situations. They are probably well trained in firearms and tazers and probably have to pass proficiency exams with their sidearm periodically as I did in the military. They are trained to know what they are doing and what weapon they are holding at all times (or so one would assume). So, this is what I don't get. We are supposed to believe that rapid transit police officers, trained on and off the job for policing large groups of people, well-trained and proficient with firearms and self-defense accidentally shot an innocent, unarmed man on accident because the police officer was so distracted and flustered he thought he had a tazer and not his sidearm? When you think of it that way, it's a stretch.. That's why this whole situation is wierd, that's why it doesn't make any sense, and that's why people wonder whether or not this was a deliberate murder.

-ChriS

This will trump any and all previous police brutality and killings. I cannot understand how anyone watching the latest release can argue anything but a big WHAT DID HE JUST DO ? I really think some people just miss the obvious facts...

1st. All guns and tasers have safeties. Tasers and gun safeties do not remotely resemble each other.

2nd. Guns and tasers are not anything alike. From weight to color ( YELLOW AND GREEN marking on LE tasers) they just cannot be mistaken.

3rd. You do not use your gun to threaten or subdue a man who is already face down on the ground with another police on his neck. The gun cannot be seen by him to be threatened and does not assist in cuffing him.

4th. If, from what we saw in the video constitutes being tased, well then we are all in trouble.

5th. He clearly unbuckles, removes the saftey, aims and fires his gun. If he was going to taser him, I guess he doesn't observe police tactics and make his fellow officers aware to get off the soon to be tasered victim. Police are trained to yell taser twice so their comrads can clear.

6th. HE IS HANDCUFFED WHEN SHOT. TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A SSES AND LOOK.

So unless he really just said F it, I'm killing this guy or had some type of psychotic episode, there can be no substantial argument made that he was going to taser him.

I am literally shocked.

Also, F U to the people who say he had a weapon. You didn't see one and either did or could I.


The reaction by people in CA and maybe other places in the US over the next couple days could get really bad. I just finally saw this on CNN at 12:30 am EST on 1-7-09 on east coast.

This makes Rodney King's incident look like a bitch slapping. And I am sure a lot of us remember what happened then.


Poppa D


[edit on 7-1-2009 by Poppa D]

reply to post by Poppa D


"The reaction by people in CA and maybe other places in the US over the next couple days could get really bad. "

Fingers crossed.

Hopefully this will spiral out of control.

Control of the PTB.

reply to post by Spectre0o0


That's exactly what I said on page 8. Even if this was a case of the police officer mistaking his sidearm for his tazer (however that happens for a trained, proficient cop who is supposed to know what to do in those situations) the man wasn't exactly out of control, swinging weapons around, or threatening police officers in any way.

In fact he was cooperating, he kept showing his hands as a sign that he was unarmed, and he purportedly told the cop not to taze him because he had a child and was unarmed (although the audio in the short video clip in the OP's post didn't catch this). These are more the signs of a scared, cooperating individual. Why a police officer would then try to taze the guy makes no sense, and the worst part is this.. If the police officer really WAS trying to taze the guy instead of shooting him in the back, then when you take all this into account the guy died needlessly at the hands of a trained officer of the law.. Because the guy didn't need to be tazed in the first place.

-ChriS

Here is another angle of the shooting.

cbs5.com...@kpix.dayport.com

In this one, you can clearly see that the victim is actually HANDCUFFED WHEN HE WAS SHOT. To top it off, he was also being held down by another officer with a knee on his head.

The victim is also seen constantly pleading with the cops and being fully cooperative.

I'm tired of seeing replies on here in defense of the cops saying that these "kids" (this was a 22 year old father) were acting out of control and not cooperating. Are you people assuming, or did you see the video? The victim and his friends are constantly seen pleading with cops and putting their hands in the air to show they are not a threat. There's also witnesses who have said he pleaded with the cops and told them he is a father of a 4 year old girl.

This cop knew exactly what he was doing.

Am I the only one who noticed the BLACK Uniforms?

Maybe it's because I'm old, but Americans don't wear black uniforms....







[edit on 7-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

TOMORROW I AM GOING TO CALL BART i am going to tell them that i saw on film, a police officer commit murder.
[SNIP]

please everyone...let them know how you feel about this. BECAUSE IT COULD BE YOU NEXT.

Mod Note:Why doesn't ATS allow "Activist" Recruiting?

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by 4demon
Hmm, I wonder if this will result in the Greek events after that 15 year old was shot...

Nah he is probably going to be forgotten like the many other ppl
that are shot dead in the USA every year.

The one I remember best was the homeless haitian in New York
that was shot dead and he had no weapon.

After 3rd unarmed black man is killed riots erupt in NYC

This happened back in 2000 so it has been awhile since those riots.

But here in 2008 another instance happened.

Man killed on his wedding day, 50+ shots fired

I agree the guy is prolly not the model citizen, but I think it could
have been handled not in a pubic place, and with a little less force.

The police have the option for bean bag guns, rubber bullets, etc etc.

If a dozen cops showed up at his house with guns drawn I think
he would have surrendered rather than play lead pincushion.

Keep in mind I only looked at New York here, and I am not even
from New York.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech



"I agree the guy is prolly not the model citizen"

Why?

Because the police victimized him?

I guess your a criminal too then. "Prolly".



[edit on 7-1-2009 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Spectre0o0


"I WANT TO GO BACK IN TIME BEFORE GUNS,WHEN THERE WAS NO VIOLENCE"

I hope this is a joke...

You want the days of Atilla the Hun, and Genghis Khan ?

Perhaps some Alexander the Great, or the Xerxes and the Persians ?

Guns don't kill ppl, ppl kill ppl.

Ppl have been beating each other to death with rocks, tree limbs,
and their bare hands since we have walked this planet.

It will end when we decide to remove the tendency for violence
from our gene pool via genetic manipulation or another way.

If we don't blow the world to hell before we get smart enough to
learn to control it.

AS ROBIN WILLIAMS WOULD SAY,"ITS IRONICAL"
it is meant to induce the thoughts you had in your post.(IT WORKED,DIDN'T IT?)
it means that guns dont have anything to do with murder. its for the crazies that think gun control will stop violence.
use your head,as you said ,people have been killing people since the beginning of time
THIS IS A PRO GUN STATEMENT

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Spectre0o0]

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[edit on 7-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by clay2 baraka


It' not a weak defense, an officer can easily mistake the two weapons, since they both have the same sized grip, in the heat of the moment it's very easy to make a serious error as did this officer, it happened locally about four years ago and the officer was exonerated from criminal or negligent actions because of those very facts. It is still tragic though....

ISN'T EVERY OFFICER EXONERATED?
this fact will lead to a place the police don't want to be.
as i said before...why was tazering nessecary if he was not combatant,and under control?

if the MURDER VICTIM WAS SO OUT OF CONTROL,WHY DID THE OFFICER HAVE TIME TO STAND UP,UNHOLSTER HIS WEAPON,AND SHOOT HIM IN THE BACK?
WHY DIDNT HE SHOUT THAT HE WAS ABOUT TO TAZER HIM SO THE OTHER OFFICERS COULD CLEAR?

DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
like i said,take away the uniforms and you have a gang killing. plain and simple.
you said it happened 4 years ago? then why do they still use the same types of weapons? they've had 4 years to make sure it didn't happen again. OR DID THEY JUST LEAVE IT THE SAME BECAUSE ITS AN EASY DEFENSE?

[edit on 7-1-2009 by Spectre0o0]

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[edit on 7-1-2009 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by Elijio
I didn't watch the video, and i know this wasn't stated in the headline but I'm going to assume that he was black.....
Do I win a prize?

Don't flame me please.

Roger that

reply to post by cal7man


So without debating anything else about this incident other than the alleged taser theory...

You think he needed to be tased after he was already cuffed ???

Look closely at the video, his arms are behind his back after he was shot and then dragged. He was cuffed when shot. It looks like the cop who shot him takes the cuffs off just after the other one in front starts to move the victim. After the cop who shot him takes the cuffs off his arm flops out to the side.

This ain't lookin good.



[edit on 1/7/2009 by Poppa D]