Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
The whole HIV convo is a destraction. It doesn't matter.

There are multiple diseases, infections, and viruses, that could be spread through saliva, or spit. No matter what, spitting on someone is equivalent to defecating on someone.

It's assault in today's world

if its such a distration, why are you begging to argue about it more?

are you Baiting more offtopic banter?

reply to post by ALLis0NE

To me it appears he is offering his hands to be cuffed. I would do the same. Maybe I will change my operating procedure if placed in the same situation. The victims lungs stopped the bullet from hitting anyone else so he died a hero.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by PsykoOps

 

Here in the US, what your talking about only applies to undercover officers. You are allowed to take pictures of uniformed officers without any problems.

The law says that, but try it and see what they do. They beat you down.

maybe the real issue here is that police are becoming increasingly more retarded

cant tell differance between taser and a real gun?

YA RIGHT! Unless your totally Retarded! then why let them Have a GUN in the first place?!

this is the core issue here IMO, that police dont know anything about reality except how to hurt people and cage them up

maybe a few cops have a brain, but they are definatly few and far between

they should make sure cops know basic math, science , LAW , etc

Cops dont know the law anymore , they just make it up as they go! Ive met alot of cops that when i said "Thats not the law!" they reply " I AM THE LAW!!!!" and then proceed to break tons of actual real laws and smash my face into the car for daring question them

so # 1 COPS MUST be taught LAW
having all these idiot cops who know nothing about actual real LAWS is just begging for a huge catastrophy

and also #2 cops need to learn science!

because you definatly cannot die from someone spitting on you! plain science fact

i cant believe these guys are this dumb these days, its scary

Where I live they call this murder.

Even in the wild west you don't shoot a man in the back.

Cop or not, this guy needs to spend the rest of his life in jail.

Some new info.

Mario Pangelina Jr., a 23-year-old Hayward man whose sister, Sophina Mesa, was Grant's girlfriend and the mother of his child, said he saw some of what led to the shooting. He said officers had Grant against a wall on the platform. One officer briefly choked Grant, and someone pointed a Taser at him as well, Pangelina said.

Pangelina quoted Grant as saying, "Please don't tase me, please don't shoot me, I have a daughter."

www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2009/01/04/BA0R153LGU.DTL&tsp=1

The family's attorney John Burris said the shooting was intentional, and that he planned to ask Alameda County prosecutors to seek criminal charges against the officer. Burris said Grant, of Hayward, Calif., posed no threat to officers when a bullet entered his back and ricocheted to his lung area, killing him almost instantly.

"The officer leaned (in), was straddling over him and pointed his gun directly into the backside and shot (Grant)," said Burris, adding that Grant was handcuffed - after he was shot. "This was not a deadly force situation."

headonradionetwork.com...


[edit on 6-1-2009 by DantesLost]

Originally posted by zerbot565
excuse my french, but with kids behaving lika a zoo anything can happen,

all i see is arrogant nintendo kids giving the man a hard time.

ofcourse shooting the fellow might have been a bit over the line,


but it put a smile on my face when the kids started shouting.

first they are kings of the concrete boasting and what not but when things acturly get real they act like the children that they are.

You say it was "a bit over the line" and "it put a smile on your face when the kids started shouting". What did it do when the coward shot him in the back at point blank while he was lying face down with another officer's knee over his face and neck?

"here's my message of love kid" Bang, "your dead.....and a Happy New Year to your parents". Is this what we advocate?

Oh, and this excuse that he thought he had pulled out his taser and made a mistake by pulling out his firearm is absurd. The feel of both weapons is so entirely different that a blind man could tell the difference.

The adrenaline defence and confusion another poster mentioned is also absurd. There was enough cops around that none of them were in danger from a group of kids, most of which, it is reasonable to assume, they would have had some previous contact with.

I hope this case changes trigger happy police behavior throughout the country. If not, get ready for the riots.

pathetic lying pig is pathetic. hope he hangs.

reply to post by taserman
Ever had a coupe of 200 pound cops sit on you? It's impossible to move.
The video's also show him getting clubbed first.
Let's face it, most cops don't give a # about human life, and it shows here. That's why they become cops, so they can bully intimidate and kill
people and hide behind that badge.
Not all of them are this evil, but most are. I'd rather take my chances with the muggers than call THESE cops!

Originally posted by SKINWALKER2K9
The so called helpless man in question was another thuglife street punk that started a fight with a fellow comuter on the train when the fellow commuter defended his girlfriend who was being harrassed over her New Years Attire!

I was there saw the whole thing go down and I applaud B.A.R.T. police for a job well done!!!!!!!!!!!

If you saw the whole thing then there is more for you to tell us. So let's have the whole story, and ask yourself if killing the guy was the only answer to solving this situation.

I watched the officer's hands. After he drew his pistol once hand moved up and over the pistol and then back down.

Anyone here with more pistol exp than can answer please jump in.

To my untrained eye it looked like he possibly worked the slide action to chamber a round before the shot?

Holy crap there is no excuse for that.
Manslaughter if not murder. What the # did he need his gun for.

Originally posted by taserman

The video doesn't even show the guy getting shot, the camera is pointed down at the ground when he is shot. You can clearly see and hear though that he is shot while he is on the ground resiting arrest and clearly trying to grab something out of his pockets, which could have been a dangerous weapon.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]

I've been an ATS member for about a month or so. Normally I come on just to see what's going on in the world, read some threads and reply's, and call a day/night.

I won't address you personally, b/c I don't know you or what you're like outside of ATS threads. I can only make my response based on what you wrote. I was wondering if you watched both angles. The first is not of the victim, but of someone else who had nothing to do with the already occurring detention. In the beginning as shown in the video, it was just the victim and 3 other young men being held. At what point do you see someone "running" at the officer. Secondly are you from planet Krypton? B/c I've played both video's several times, and I've yet to hear as you stated :

Originally posted by taserman

Especially after you just issued verbal threats such as "f**k the police" and "death to pigs" which can be clearly heard several times in the video.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]

Nor could I clearly see a struggle before Mr. Grant was fatally shot. What did notice, despite the bad quality of the video, was Mr. Grant his hands up and then being forced to the ground. At which point there were two officers on top of him. My question is; If Mr. Grant were resisting and reaching ( as is almost ALWAYS the case in Cop shootings) why did only one of the 2 officers feel threatened. But of course, Im only on the outside looking in.

It will take more than this video to reach any kind of definite conclusion. In my opinion (MY OPINION people) this officer is in the wrong and should be held accountable for his actions. With the bad quality of video, it's gonna take strong testimony from witnesses.

THE other cop was on top of the guys neck and holding him down he had no reason to even draw his gun

God, if I said all of the racist, hateful things that ALLisONE has been posting nonstop, I would have been post banned back on page four.

He must have an angel on his shoulder.

On topic:

Clearly this cop needs to visit the same place that all of the "typical negros" do. Maybe the cop is ALLisONE, that would explain the blind hate and vigilant defense.

[edit on 1/6/2009 by Irish M1ck]

For those of you that have Not worked the streets in uniform I say lighten up a little on expert opinions . . . you can't get one from 2 bad videos and watching episodes of CSI.
It is difficult enough to have situational awareness standing there in person. If you never had the 100% pucker factor of having a gun pointed at you, just try to remember this. It is easier to have the Bag Pipe Funeral than to defend yourself while encased in the middle of a hostile Mob.

Surveillance videos from various locations, “professional” analysis of all evidence (including enhancing the audio and visual), Autopsy report, Eyewitness accounts, Police reports, etc and so on . . . need to be done first.

To some, it is an open and shut case and the jury is going home already. More happened than we know about at this time. I can only repeat that I am sorry a life was taken and many lives are now affected by it.

reply to post by NYCMedic


Please show me in the police standard operating procedure where it instructs officers to shoot a subdued, unarmed man in the back while on the ground? Please...

if I'm not mistaking their supposed to go in order of hands, baton, spray, taser, gun if the situation allows...such as when you have 5+ other officers to help with an UNARMED SUSPECT AND HE'S SUBDUED ON THE GROUND...maybe? I don't know.


Just because someone hasn't worked in uniform doesn't mean they aren't qualified to comment on BS & clear over reaction. If that cop is that much of a wuss he has to use his gun on someone like that, he shouldn't be a cop. I have been in fights, and have been around those with intentions to use a gun, have been trained on both hand to hand & weapon usage, and that cop was NOT justified. So does that make me qualified to say he could have easily knock that guy out with a baton to the back of the head if he wanted to be brutal...had he actually been resisting of course.

I love how the "Anti-Pig Pros" come out anytime a thread like this comes up. The sentiment that nobody believes you can pull a Taser by accident instead of a pistol is absolutely absurd.

When put in stressful and dangerous situations one can easily mistake the simplest details. The officer should still be taken care of in terms of employment. He obviously does not have what it takes to handle the job. Is he a murderer? Nope... there was nothing either negligent or purposely done in this case. You can see the officers reaction after it happens. Most of you here on ATS would choose to not acknowledge it.


Someone here said that cops chase you around with guns and tasers, therefore its justified to lunge at police officers and resist. I've got to say that's the most stupid statement I've ever heard in my life. Cops seldom come at you with verbal threats to your life. While some officers may be rude and smart asses, its all part of adopting the tough guy attitude to make it through your job.

Yes, cops are and should be held to a higher standard. But in the end, they are still human like you and I. The way many people treat and talk about officers is absolutely no different then a strong form of racism. It is totally unfair to dehumanize someone for doing their job.

Most of you would be wetting your pants within 24 hours of not having these people that serve and protect us. I think a lot of you truly don't realize the impact these guys have on the community.

This is starting to happen more and more everyday. More cops acting wildly and more people getting hurt and killed because of poor judgement. I thought you are not suppose to shoot someone in the back. But i guess this is a new day and age but like they say... Every DOG has its' day.