Why does any criticism of Israel get the poster labeled an “Anti Semite”

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Operation AJAX

 

In my opinion, just like many of you feel those who use the term 'anti-Semite' are using it as a last resort defense against their opponents, likewise, many of us feel those who use the phrase, 'I'm not attacking Jews- I'm attacking Israeli policy!' also use that as a get-out-of-jail-free card when their true intentions are exposed.

Exactly. Very similar to the quote used by liberals in the U.S. - "I support the troops, but am against the war", when in reality, they've never lifted a finger to support the troops.

In this thread, I don't understand why the word "Jew" needs to be used at all - ever - unless there is another anti-Semitic agenda by the poster.

Because Israel is a jewish state - any attempt to undermine that is a two faced lie - Pakistan was set up as a Islamic state JUST as Israel was set up as a jewish state.
Further there are strict laws governing those that are allowed to hold citizenship and they MUST follow jewish bloodline - talk about ignorance of the highest order !

Further non - jews although allowed to be residence are prohibited from almost ALL aspects of civic life - there are what can be described as tokenistic gestures towards non jewish backgrounds.

All of this is manifest in the most important claims of the palestinians which is the right as refugees to retrun to their homes, this is ONLY OPEN TO JEWISH PEOPLE, no non jewish has been granted the right of return -

always good to have a spokesperson from AIPAC around here though to keep the waters muddied - carp.

Originally posted by audas
Here is a stat :

the percentage of Palestinians killed and injured is .2% of their entire population,
for the Israelis it is .00000002% thats less than a billionth -

um, this is genocide of the most murderous kind.

And you believe that count isn't inflated?
The tactics of Hamas is obviously going to be one of "the victim" because it has no hope of defeating Israel. It's only hope is getting others to act in it's stead.

reply to post by audas


more people in Israel are killed every year from the thunderstruck than by the palestinian rockets. that's for sure.

obviously it is not right that there are any victims in Israel. especially that these are also a civilians. but to kill whole nation (as it is looks it will end like) does not look like a mistake to me.

reply to post by masonwatcher


Nazis extensively ranted against "Zionism" so how is that "Zionists" are Nazis?

Deny Ignorance!

Background: Since the Nazis hated the Jews, one might at first think they would favor Zionism's campaign to build a Jewish state, thus encouraging Jews to leave Germany. They did in fact encourage Jewish emigration to Palestine, even ordering newspapers in Germany not to print stories about the difficulties Jews faced there. However, his article from one of the most widely circulated Nazi periodicals rejects the idea. Zionism is seen as part of the general Jewish plot to control the world. Der Schulungsbrief was a general interest Nazi periodical with a circulation of over 1,000,000 in 1936. Nazi block wardens attempted to sell copies to every German citizen.

The source: Arno Schickedanz, "Der Zionismus," Der Schulungsbrief 3 (April 1936), pp. 149-150.

Zionism

by Arno Schickedanz
Through Karl Marx-Mordechai, Jewry overcame the problems and difficulties that came with industrialization and the transformation of ownership resulting from the development of the fourth estate, falsifying their justified demands in a way that served Jewry's interests. With his assertion of constant exploitation based on his materialist view of history, Karl Marx created a front that ran through all nations, stamping it with "internationalism" and the Jewish spirit. His doctrine ripped nations apart. Their resistance to outside forces collapsed as parties struggled bitterly with one another. It is surprising that few have noticed that Karl Marx-Mordechai's doctrines were Jewish in nature. He believed that he could take the materialist view of history and the exploitive nature of the Jewish people and apply them to all the other peoples.

The claim of "constant exploitation" removed the parasitic lifestyle of the "chosen people" from the center of attention of other nations as well as of the class claimed by Marxism. But it continued to reign as the leader of speculative finance capital, bound to no territory or national community. It also led the Marxist organization that spanned all boundaries of land and ethnicity, just as "Jahwe" rules over the universe.

The growing wealth of the Jews, along with the increasing influence that their wealth gave them led to a certain loosening of Jewish cohesiveness. Increasing numbers went from the Mosaic to the Christian faith purely to gain further advantages. There was a certain "assimilation," and a "liberal" Jewry also developed that accepted those precepts of Jewish doctrine that were pleasant and comfortable, but rejected those that caused discomfort, without however leaving the Jewish faith. Karl Marx-Mordechai's doctrines were even reflected in the Jewish organization "Paole Zion" among the poor Jews found only in the East who had not accomplished anything.

Zionism resulted from thinking about the position of the Jews within their host peoples and from knowledge of their financial and political power. It was an attempt to balance these facts and combat the spiritually divergent tendencies in Jewry. Its founder Herzl spoke more or less openly in various places in his diaries: "Where it exists, one can no longer abolish the legal equality of the Jews. This is not only because it goes against the modern mind, but also because all Jews, rich and poor, would immediately be forced into revolutionary parties. There is really nothing they can do to us. In the past one took their jewelry from the Jews; can one today take their movable wealth? The impossibility of getting at the Jews has only strengthened and embittered hatred. Anti-Semitism grows daily, even hourly, in the population. It will continue to grow since its causes continue to exist and cannot be eliminated."
Continued on Link

Source:www.calvin.edu...

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by dawa

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by budaruskie

 

... and I suppose you blame the Jew (Iceberg) for destroying the Titanic too?

Regardless of how you feel, Jews contribute more to the world than do thier half brothers because they are productive, and not destructive, members of society.

And these are the sort of statements that get people wound up!

I dont dislike Jews, I dont dislike Israel. What I dont like is the way Israel are handling this situation, for a "grown up" country theyre acting worse than the UK and USA act in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh no! Am I a christian hating sadist now because I dont agree with two christian countries?! (One of them I live in :O TRAITOR )

Which of my statements will get people wound up?

Who said anything about them being two Christian countries?
These are Jews and Muslims at war, they don't believe in Christ the Savior or the New Testament which professes "turning the other cheek".

They both believe in the Old Testament, which means they both believe in "an eye for an eye".

Ratzafrassing goonetygak!
I feel much better now, Although I am still unable to log in as "I go by Diogenes"

To the matter at hand: Why does any criticism of Israel get the poster labeled an “Anti Semite”
Could it be because there is a serious lack of ethical reasoning?


74.6.239.67.../files/E thical_ReasoningDC.pdf&w=foundations+foundation+bias+biased&d=RY4sp0fiSAOG&icp=1&.intl=us

The Function of Ethics—and Its Main Impediment
“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

"The proper role of ethical reasoning is to highlight acts of two kinds: those which enhance
the well-being of others—that warrant our praise—and those that harm or diminish the
well-being of others—and thus warrant our criticism. Developing one’s ethical reasoning
abilities is crucial because there is in human nature a strong tendency toward egotism,
prejudice, self-justification, and self-deception. These tendencies are exacerbated by pow-
erful sociocentric cultural influences that shape our lives—not least of which is the mass
media. These tendencies can be actively combated only through the systematic cultivation
of fair-mindedness, honesty, integrity, self-knowledge, and deep concern for the welfare of
others. We can never eliminate our egocentric tendencies absolutely and finally. But we can
actively combat them as we learn to develop as ethical persons."
others. We can never eliminate our egocentric tendencies absolutely and finally. But we can
actively combat them as we learn to develop as ethical persons. "

Me:The internet has provided me with the ability to discover article such as the above and I am the better for it because the breadth of my learning becomes increased.
One really must learn to see there are agendas set to create the kinds of emotionalism's easily found on internet forums and any other vehicle open to public intercourse.

The responsibility to "know" is mine alone as it is of all others who leap into the fray with emotionalisms the have come to claim as their own but in reality were implanted. If the reader's choice is to doubt what I present here I suggest they Google 'We can implant entirely false memories.'
www.google.ca...

I don't like being "Wrong" and I despise being duped, so my best defense is to learn of to think as in Critical Thinking illimin

Originally posted by crmanager
Because the typical poster says "The Jews..." throughout the post.

That is anti-semtic because when describing France one says "French," or America they says "Warmongering NWO storm troopers." Americans are not described as "the Christians."

It seems most posters talk about Isreal and its actions. Its a religious state not unlike say Iran. Most people do not say Iran they say Muslin or Muslin extremist etc. etc. etc.

The simple fact is any critisim no matter how worded draws the anti semite lable much like one would draw a gun

it gets the poster labeled "anti semite" because that label still has power to "Neutralize" a discussion in favor of the person doing the name calling.

It's like imagine African american's had there own country , that was pro black, and proud of it, and powerful-influential on the world stage, they could label anyone who accussed them of under hand deals, as being a ...insert clever word with negative conotation that may put a stain on your repuation.....and violla ...........gov't have a shield to carry out whatever they wish........with a less chance of being.......criticized because any criticizer could be labeled an anti african american racist. and after a while people would just stop trying. also under this example african american's living there or abroad who are brought up and taught in a "race class" all about there ancestors living with the memory of a painful event (slavery) they would be labeled as a traitor or uncle tom for saying "hey wait ........it really isn't fair the way we manipulated the use of a term so that we or especially our corrupt gov't can get away with it and any criticism can be deflected"........there wouldn't really be much social support for this type of truthful couragous outcry...much the opposite

I think half the people who use the term not only don't realize that israel Gov't should be labeled anti semite as well as anyone in there country who looks down at arabs as second or third class citizens- Arabs are semite's- it just shows the name is misused and pointless

But it doesn't matter what the truth is- it matters what perception is and the perception is that anti semitism only concerns people "jew hating"....not arab hating .

and the govt's and people who benefit from the mis-use of this word wether thru poor intentions or well intented ignorance will continue to use it

[edit on 6-1-2009 by cpdaman]

reply to post by Operation AJAX


Because it is the last resort of someone who has nothing valid to say and no defense for their actions.

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by budaruskie

 

... and I suppose you blame the Jew (Iceberg) for destroying the Titanic too?

Regardless of how you feel, Jews contribute more to the world than do thier half brothers because they are productive, and not destructive, members of society.

They did try sinking the USS LIBERTY.

reply to post by UScitizen


On topic in general and the 'name calling' technique. Calling someone names immediately instead of discussing issues is juvenile and laughable.

If I were to be called an 'anti-semite', I'd suggest a trip to court to clear up some slander and libel issues, shall we? That kind of name calling is loathsome and I dare say those who employ this technique know it.

And still after five pages, the questions have not been answered.

Jews use the term "anti-semite" to instill fear in people who speak their mind in an attempt to oppress them. Being anti-semetic in a few countries across the globe is actually a criminal offence.

Here's what some google search results read...

*5 May 2005 ... Muslim army deserter jailed in FL - anti American & anti semitic notes found in backpack
*Lawyer Jailed for Anti-Semitic Court Outburst ... A Houston lawyer who made anti -Semitic remarks about a county judge in an angry courtroom outburst has ...
*A Norwegian extremist has been jailed for posting racist and anti-Semitic propaganda via a server based in the United States.
*Greek Lawyer Gets Jail Time For "Anti-Semitic" Book
*Russian Student Sentenced for Anti-Semitic SMS.


In a democratic country, that is what we call freedom of speech. Awsome isn't it! There's actually people out there who police it.

I wonder what they're hiding....? The "Truth", maybe?

reply to post by Operation AJAX


I find it hard to label a person a Anti- Semite when he or she questions the motives or actions of Israel no government should be above the laws created by the world courts to protect basic human rights.
Besides as far as this current situation goes, between Palistine and Israel are not both peoples of semetic origin , my question being ? how could any educated person support a war that kills semites then label someone who opposses this conflict "Anti- Semite ".
I fear that the massive oil and Gas reserves under Gaza and just offshore have much to do with this current situation. And why this is not being discussed in the News Media has much to do with who manages the media.

the reason that country gets away with what it does is obvious,sorry you cna't see whats in front of your eyes.who do you think owns the banks? who do you think owns the munitions companies? these people have had more people killed in the name of god and then tell you your anti semite if you don't agree. listen thier way of life is coming to an end very soon,dont get too upset over things thet you have no control over,if you want to fight back find the companies they own and don't support them.it's not easy but when you realize that this is just a matrix and your thoughts can control the outcome peace of mind will be yours

reply to post by Alxandro


I don't understand the jew iceberg thing you previously referred to Also, I in no way think that all of one race, creed, ethnicity, or gender of people are all the same. That is way too broad a stroke to be painting with, knowing what kind of diversity exists in just my race, creed, ethnicity, and gender.
However, I do not see how anyone could possibly think that Israel is justified in these or any past acts of terrorism. The country was re-established by forces outside of the region without any regard to those who actually live in the region. The best analogy I can think of is this: what if the nations of China, Russia, and North Korea (or any nations for that matter) decided that the states of Texas and California needed to be given back to Mexicans because Taoism or some Aztec religion promised it to them? After all, they were there before Americans, right? Do you think that Texans or Californians would just give up their property, business, and way of life because someone else said too?
Futhermore, America is responsible for arming Israel with virtually all of their weapons, and (historically) turns a blind eye to their terrorist acts while the media goes above and beyond to demonize and ridicule Arabs (who owns the media). This is an obvious double standard. I do not believe that either side is innocent, but I do believe Ameria is the ultimate instigator.
Who else is an ally of Israel? Don't many people think that the media played a major role in the election of our new president, is that even refutable? Is it coincedence that those who question Israel are racists in the exact same way that those who question Obama are? Are there any coincedences?

Why is there criticism for Israel and such wide-spread hatred for the Jewish people? And why is one believed to be an indication of the other?

Well, in contrast, how many anti-Buddhists are there? There isn't a whole lot you can complain about Buddhist belief structure, attitudes or behavior toward other people - currently, historically or ideologically. There is nothing selfish about Buddhism, is there? But there are an awful lot of selfish [Selfish : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure or well-being without regard for others] aspects in the Jewish belief structure, and in the historic attitudes and behavior of the Jewish people that, for whatever reason, eventually caused accumulated resentment in almost every culture within which the Jewish people found themselves before the creation of Israel.

Critics of Israel get labeled as anti-Jewish because the purpose of the Israeli government is to keep a toehold of land as purely Jewish in the midst of a sea of Muslims. The government is seen as acting in step with the needs and desires of the Jewish people, so if you don't agree with Israel, you "obviously" are anti-Jew.

Maybe I'm wrong, but prior to the carving out of this toehold after WWII, (um, wouldn't it have been more logical to give the Jewish people part of Germany?), wasn't Jerusalem a holy spot visited and inhabited equally by Jews, Muslims and Christians?

Instead, one of these three groups of people say their grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's diary says this house and land are mine, so everyone else has to move out. You, a really rich friend, give them the guns to make people move out of their house. You keep giving them guns for sixty years. The people that were kicked out still remember where they used to live. Their grandchildren will remember too, especially if you continue to keep them really down, their whole standard of living not so very different than it was a hundred years ago. They will also remember who gave the robbers their guns. This is never going to be over without something extraordinary happening, hopefully something extraordinarily wonderful, but sadly, probably something extraordinarily horrible.

What's really sad is how similar, in fact, the Jewish and Muslim cultures are. What is unbelievably sad is the fundamentalist attitudes on both sides that froth up such hatred that the actual individuals want to KILL each other. How can that even be? One human being wanting, really wanting to kill another?

The Israeli fear of criticism and their instant rebuttal of anything negative written or said about them is understandable given their history of statelessness, and their reluctance to properly assimilate in the countries of their hosts. The policy of the Jewish people in every country they have settled in has been to remain separate from the indigenous population but buy influence among the leadership, to attain their security. That policy has failed many times, which resulted in them being expelled from various countries, and to the many pogroms they have suffered. It is a great pity because they have furnished much of value to the world. Even to this day they feel that they might be driven from their new homeland, given a change in policy by their benefactors. The problem for many non Jews, is the instant denial by Jews that they have done anything wrong when they most assuredly have. It does not win them any friends.

reply to post by Operation AJAX


I agree with you but on an important point :

"Israel and the Palestinians have the right to exist."

Therefore any discussion is based on this postulate, the debate is biased.

One has to NEVER FORGET the origin of the state of Israel.

Telling that "Israel has the right to exist" means that BECAUSE God gave this land as the "promised land", or BECAUSE the jews suffered the Holocaust, they have the RIGHT to chase the Palestinians from the land they belonged, an settle on their place.

This is the zionist argument and NO person unless beeing pro-zionist can agree with. I wonder how the Americans, so attached to the protection of the individual property-, can agree with this biased logic.

As so for the Palestinians "having the right to exist" ...
Please tell me how a people living on it's own land, couldn't have "the right to exist" ?
Could this mean that somebody could deny them "the right to exist" ?

And please, don't forget that what is to day the state of Israel, was built sixty years ago by terror and armed force on a land which was by no way "a land without people for a people without land" : it was a land inhabited and owned by the Palestinians, for more than 90%.

The "Palestinians", nowaday more than 4 million refugies, have indeed "the right to exist" ...

a silly term "anti-semitic" is...))

please consider the meaning and the origin of the term Semitic and to whom it refers!

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 28-1-2009 by Russi]