Taking Christ from Christianity

Well, yet another thread rooted in religion. I feel the need to post this, and see how many see things the way I do.

I will begin this by saying I am not discrediting anyone's beliefs, only stating my own. After all, there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to a person's beliefs.

I'll begin with my upbringing. I was raised Lutheran. I never really liked going to church, after all, it meant I had to drag myself out of bed in the morning. However, once I came into my intellect, I began my expedition. I went to church nearly every week until I was confirmed, and now I go every once in a while.

I must say that after years of going to church I do not agree with Christianity as a whole.

-Firstly, the way Christianity exists in it's own nature. It was created as the medium between God and Heaven. He who keeps the keys to heaven, rules the world. People who are raised in it, just believe it because that's all they know. Another huge issue is that people believe in this religion because they are greedy. They believe it because they want more than 70 years of life. People want to live forever, and they use this as a sole reason to believe. They don't believe because they truly do.

-Secondly, many creeds are recited in church. These creeds are never mentioned in the Bible, and weren't ever recited until after councils were held in the pre-Renaissance period. Leaders of the christian church and men of power gathered and decided what was to be recited weekly in church. This is major issue number one that I have. These creeds and things people are mumbling had no mention in the Bible, and they still repeat these words week after week, sounding like intellect-less drones.

-Thirdly, the mindset of many Christians. That God hates all "fags" and that they will go to hell. I don't care what you believe. Homosexuality is a belief no different that Christianity/Islam/Judaism, etc. Christians need to realize that they have become a great irony. Preach that all are God's children, except for homosexuals, and people of other religions, and murderers and those who dishonor their parents. From my personal experience, Christians are often times the greater "sinners" than anyone else.

-Fourth, the culture I've grown up in. I've become who I am in the midst of a tiny village town in the northern end of the Bible belt. The entire Christian "culture" and ways are quite amusing really. People will sit in church for an hour, then leave and gossip until 9:00 the next Sunday morning. But, if it is done behind the gargantuan name of Christianity, it is ok. Anyone daring to question these ways, is seen as a kook or a nutjob who possesses no valid opinion, and they will raise no points that might question ones own thoughts.

-Fifth, the church's past. In the past, the church has led many bloodthirsty campaigns throughout the ancient world. Most famously the crusades, we all know what happened there. People were slaughtered for not sharing a belief. Another "operation" was the systematic killing of women. Some estimates reach six million in the number of women tortured to death. It's like our little forgotten holocaust.

-Lastly, the apparent certainty. Many people are absolutely certain that what they believe is correct. They have no confirmation but they are absolutely positive that what they believe is right. What makes Christianity different from any other religion containing a higher power?

In the end, this debate will go on until the end of time, ending however you may believe. Nobody will know until then, but, we can push forward to rid ourselves from the blemishes in what we become so involved in today.

Im a Christian, and I agree with you. I see it all the time, its so ironic. It all comes down to ignorance. If people could learn to just be TOLERANT of one another we would be closer to peace. Part of what drew me to masonry was the idea of tolerance, and the idea that the relationship between the individual and their GOD is private. I believe God comes to different people in different ways , and he came to me through Christ but if the next guy doesn't then let him be. We can still be friends, act cordially, and share non religious ideas with each other. Good Post!

[edit on 4-1-2009 by On_The_Level]

First of all I will have to say that it was Catholicism that started those blood thirsty campaigns. And since Catholicism is the most “seen” branch of Christianity it gets to be the face. I do not have any problems with catholic people so please any Catholics don’t flame. But organized religion has forgotten what they are there for.

As you have probably guessed I am not catholic I was raised Baptist, but as soon as I was old enough to understand things on my own I prefer to not be associated with any branch of organized religion. Mainstream organized religion is fallible because, unfortunately, there is a chance to make a huge profit from it. Man is the problem with religion. We get greedy, and the more influence we gain over a mass the worse it gets.

Religion to day is corrupt, so each person should educate themselves about what ever supreme being they prescribe to. Spirituality is the best way to be. To follow what ever method you take to get to your higher state of enlightenment on your own is the best way to achieve your goal in your belief.

I for one belief that there is no one branch of Christianity that has it right. I believe you would have to combine all sects before you would come close to having it right. But there is no right or wrong it is simply what you choose to believe or not believe.

Back to what organized religion has forgotten. We are put here to life a full and wonderful life. To help each other to grow in any way that they need to grow. To live in peace with all people and cultures. And that is what the a lot of the modern Christians have forgotten.

Now I am not saying all Catholics all Christians. So please refrain from bashing on me.


[edit on 4-1-2009 by Ant4AU]

You aren't wrong.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When you read the bible, there are a few things that help reveal the truth. Translations/putting things in their modern place of sorts.

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

Religious leaders and the church are the pharisee's of today.

Jesus also calls churches "synagogues", they didn't call them churches back in those days. So whenever you see that word, replace it with church. The real church is built inside you.

Those who followed Jesus were not called Christians, they are called Jews. So when Jesus says something like beware of those who will call themselves Jews, but are not Jews, he is also talking about Christians.

Money changers of today = bankers.

Basically, the leaders back in the day were losing power, so they adopted the symbolism to keep the power. Those who bring and use alot of symbolism like crosses and Jesus etc are those who are "wolves in sheeps clothing". The clothing is heavy symoblism. This also happens in politics. Like the whole thing with Obama - don't have your flag pin(symbolism), then you are wrong. Because obviously wearing the symbolism is a sign that you are actually that(and I'm not even an Obama supporter).

So they get you to focus on the imagery and symbolism they have, and then they get the people to follow that symbolism and do things that actually go against the teachings. They worship the idols(against a commandment), and don't follow the teachings. That is what causes what you see.

See beyond the symbolism and you will see the truth. Seek as you were told, and look at the fruits of these things just as you have done here.




[edit on 4-1-2009 by badmedia]

As with anything made by man, there will be flaws. However, I have met many good people who are doing right by their fellow man and by God.

I would not kill the messenger here (church), but examine the message. If it is not according to the Bible, leave that church.

Jesus was concerned about bad doctrine. He said to beware the leaven of the Pharisees. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. If you put a little yeast in bread, it will grow and multiply until the bread is swollen, or raised. The same can be true of doctrine, where there are "99 truths and one lie" told.

Be like the Bereans in Acts 17. Search the scriptures and prove the teachers to see that they are teaching you correctly. This was not possible during the problem era of the Catholic church because individuals were not allowed to read and interpret the Bible. Today, things are much different, thanks in part to the original Pilgrims who left England because they were forbidden to read the Bible in English at home.

Take your heritage seriously, now that you can freely read the book. Criticize your pastor if he is off track. Ask him to explain in light of the scriptures.

We are supposed to make sure the teachings we are receiving are correct.

As far as the rote dogma, reciting each week, it is to help you know your fundamental beliefs.

If you want to change the world, you must be the agent of change.

Op I noticed it didn't say anything about creeds in the bible. Well, the bible doesn't say anything about the bible either, if you catch my drift. I'm a christian , 26, and i remember fairly recently when i thought I toowas a christian only because i was brought up in it. I too see the many flaws in christianity. Remember christianity is not a synonym for Jesus. Frankly, I have a great respect for the devil, who challenges God, so I believe christianity would be his ideal vessel "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". This may be what the devil is doing if you know what i mean. Howver, it doesn't ring a high "truthiness (lol)" on the truth scale, but there is something going on there that just isn't right.....like it was for 9/11, the iraq war, the bailout, haarp....they all stank like lies and organized christianity doesn't reak, but you definately notice it when you "enter the room", if you will.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by heyo]

reply to post by prestonposthuma


prestpmposthuma:

Very good thread. I agree we shouldn't shoot the messenger (the church) there are some good places to worship out there. However, I do believe that we are the church, the temple of God and do not need to attend a church building to worship God.

I believe it is our ignorance in not fully understanding the mystical knowledge of the Father. I believe that to be the light in the darkness. To shine bright for all to see and KNOW the Father through me.

Our consciousness becomes aware of this light this love of enlightenment when we become one with the Creator in our personal quiet time, or prayer time. However one would like to word it. But it is in this time of "taking in" what God has to show us or tell us that our spirit reaches up to heaven to sing with the angels. It is very important to one's faith to keep a personal time with the heavenly Father.

There is no love that is given that shines like the rays of a rainbow or sings as sweet as the winds through the tree tops. Only God's love can open our hearts to such beautiful insights.


Peace to you,
Grandma

This is one of the best posts I've read here as far as openess goes. Me, being a Pagan, will clearly not agree with many of you on these subjects. I think that's quite alright. I love the idea that many out there feel that organization isn't the only way to worship. It can be private and in my own opinion, should be. However, as Badmedia posted, if you find a good church that actually follows the law of their holy book without going to any extreme is a great place to be

Well said OP

-Kyo

I agree with you too prestonposthuma. That's why I'm the church and I am not part of any religious faction. I will respect everyone's decision to believe in what they want until they start killing or hurting others. I think most religious people believe " just in case" or to be part of a social organization. I on the other hand can only believe in me not anyone else or a book. I'm still wondering, searching, " reading " and looking for the truth, but by my own heart and soul not by others. I honestly think that there's good and bad in everything man does and to choose the good is more rewarding than any bad. And for me to tell another person what to believe in or what they should do is hypocrisy on my part. No matter if your gay, straight, Christian, pagan, atheist, deist, Mormon, Muslim etc... It's your choice and your responsibility to bring out the best in yourself.

Thank you prestonposthuma for this thread and for sharing your views of Christianity and life. I too agree with you and feel that there's so many other ways to find God or to find the truth. But ultimately it's up to us and it's our choice not someone else's.

reply to post by KyoZero
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: N/A

Personal Disclosure: Well said KyoZero! I fully agree with you. Star for
you Also very excellent OP by the OP'er! Star and Flag.

Christianity was created by the will of God. Because of Jesus sacrifice Christianity is born. organize religion can be bad. But most people go to church to hear the word of God and believe in truth. People don't go to church to hurt people. Evil people go to hurt people. God wants us to have fellowship. God wants us to be in presents of his church and godly people. Remember even Jesus went to the sonigog (sorry spelling) every holy day.

reply to post by prestonposthuma

-Secondly, many creeds are recited in church. These creeds are never mentioned in the Bible, and weren't ever recited until after councils were held in the pre-Renaissance period. Leaders of the christian church and men of power gathered and decided what was to be recited weekly in church. This is major issue number one that I have. These creeds and things people are mumbling had no mention in the Bible, and they still repeat these words week after week, sounding like intellect-less drones.

I have to agree with the intellect-less drones part. Creeds are a form of mind control. I consider myself to be fortunate to have been born into a religion that does not impose creeds. We believe that a person has to believe that Jesus died for our sins and is the Son of God. Other than that, we are free to form our own opinions. This religion was based on the concept that, at the time of its formation, not all things were known and that the Spirit will bring about more knowledge as the end draws closer. Having a creed only hinders the Spirit and the expansion of the understanding of truth.


[edit on 9-1-2009 by jmdewey60]

I find it very freeing to not have to live by a label any longer!

I USED to be religious, and I USED to be a Christian. But now I am spiritual with the box wide open for new discoveries (or at least - newly defined). Since leaving the box it has indeed opened for new insights. AND...they don't have to be monitored by religious dictates and its leaders.

I can believe in Jesus and actually follow his words and not have to process them through any agency. It is wonderful to not have to abide, and in a sense condone false teachings, or hypocrisy by religious members just by participating in a formal religion and setting.