Uk 2015

Im not BIG on weaponry,but id like us Uk'ers to have a good defensive military just incase the worst scenario happens.Id rather we focused more on defense rather than offense basically.With budget cuts over the years from labour...and probably more when the conservatives take charge... ewww.

By 2015 do you think our navy and airforce would be able to to go toe to toe with the rest and best of the world? Ive always felt those were our strongest points,apart from nukes which have went to america now or atleast the stockpiles who i wouldnt trust with a pea shooter,they have stabbed us in the back before..by 2015 do you think we will have a capable military to defend our shores?

I've always thought despite our relatively small population we could fight one hell of a defensive war against any country.But like i said,im no expert in this area,but now during these tough economical and geo political times id like to know we could defend our shores from a serious threat.Would we be a walk over? or a formidable force?

If say a European country was to try and invade the UK I would hope that the people would be armed by the government, I'd sit on the beach banks and wait for there boats and fight, I think every capable person in the country would, answer arm the public, this country and it's people are a push over, I've always wanted the government to hand out guns to the people with 1 rule, if you pull your gat on someone everyone else can blow you away, although I know this will never happen I'd love it to

[edit on 3-1-2009 by Pockets]

Originally posted by Solomons
I've always thought despite our relatively small population we could fight one hell of a defensive war against any country.

What are you going to use? Sticks and stones? I dont mean that tongue and cheek either, your government has already effectively disarmed you.

But like i said,im no expert in this area,but now during these tough economical and geo political times id like to know we could defend our shores from a serious threat.Would we be a walk over? or a formidable force?

Im sure, that "country which has stabbed you in the back so many times" would be more than willing to come to your aid...

The US will has FCS (first US FCS brigade is due to come out in 2015), along with a plethora of other high end technologies that will transform the US military into a 21st century military. I am not sure what the UK is working on. I actually see the UK downsizing its military, which means you will rely ever more on the US for tech, and support.

Here is a neat video of what the US forces of 2015-2020 will most likely look like.

Google Video Link

[edit on 3-1-2009 by West Coast]

Originally posted by Solomons
Im not BIG on weaponry,but id like us Uk'ers to have a good defensive military just incase the worst scenario happens.Id rather we focused more on defense rather than offense basically.With budget cuts over the years from labour...and probably more when the conservatives take charge... ewww.

Overall defence spending has increased year on year for the past decade, there hasn't been any budget "cuts" and the Tories are unlikely to announce any major cuts either, should they get in.

Originally posted by Solomons
By 2015 do you think our navy and airforce would be able to to go toe to toe with the rest and best of the world?

They already are among the best in the world. The only thing lacking is numbers, yet the RAF and the RN are among the largest Airforces and Navies in the world anyway.

Originally posted by Solomons
Ive always felt those were our strongest points,apart from nukes which have went to america now or atleast the stockpiles who i wouldnt trust with a pea shooter,they have stabbed us in the back before..by 2015 do you think we will have a capable military to defend our shores?

What do you mean about giving our "stockpiles" to the USA?

As for being able to defend ourselves, we have the capability now. The UK is effectively uninvadable, due mainly to the RAF and RN.

posted by Westcoast
What are you going to use? Sticks and stones? I dont mean that tongue and cheek either, your government has already effectively disarmed you.

And they could easily re-arm us again before any threat of invasion ever became a reality. Not to mention the fact we have 110,000 in the Army and another 60,000 reservists readily trained, I see no need to arm the general public unless an invasion was iminent.

posted by Westcoast
Im sure, that "country which has stabbed you in the back so many times" would be more than willing to come to your aid...

Indeed and then we'd get billed for it afterwards.....

posted by Westcoast
I am not sure what the UK is working on. I actually see the UK downsizing its military, which means you will rely ever more on the US for tech, and support.

You don't know what the UK is working on, yet you "assume" we're downsizing and will rely on the US even more?

I can assure you there are plenty of projects in the works and we have some of the worlds most advanced weapon systems, easily matching or even besting the US in several fields, such as Tank design, Warships, Submarines, UCAV's and Aircraft. We disign things to be easily meshed with US forces, but we're far from reliant on you guys.

[edit on 3/1/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason
And they could easily re-arm us again before any threat of invasion ever became a reality. Not to mention the fact we have 110,000 in the Army and another 60,000 reservists readily trained, I see no need to arm the general public unless an invasion was iminent.

With that will come a set of problems though. How would you arm, and sustain the population? That would be a logistical nightmare. You would also have to contest with an enemy who would be trying to cut off supply lines.

Indeed and then we'd get billed for it afterwards.....

If the roles were reversed, would it be any different?

You don't know what the UK is working on, yet you "assume" we're downsizing and will rely on the US even more? I can assure you there are plenty of projects in the works and we have some of the worlds most advanced weapon systems, easily matching or even besting the US in several fields, such as Tank design, Warships, Submarines, UCAV's and Aircraft. We disign things to be easily meshed with US forces, but we're far from reliant on you guys.

I have a pretty good idea on what the US is working on, and I can assure you, the UK is not on the same level.

AI, Bio tech, nano tech, exo skeletons, lasers, rail guns, DDXI, stealth UCAVS, various autonomous drones, Mobile land systems, Global Information Grid (GIG), NBIC, Naval sea bases, space weapons, weather modifcation as a 'force multiplyer' (US air force plans to own the weather by 2025) along with various other ongoing programs that are unprecedented and unmatched by anyone... Just watch the DARPA video I have posted to get an idea where I am coming from.






[edit on 3-1-2009 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by Solomons
I've always thought despite our relatively small population we could fight one hell of a defensive war against any country.

What are you going to use? Sticks and stones? I dont mean that tongue and cheek either, your government has already effectively disarmed you.



[edit on 3-1-2009 by West Coast]

I think he means we are all still have our Boudiccian roots. Boudicca was very Iconic. She and her followers fought for their people and thier country, to protect theirrselves and country against invaders. In a nutshell i think he means we feel strongly about defending our own turf i.e. our country - that said i dont think there would be that many wanting to go out and invade countries - despite the history of the people that has ruled over us doing just that. It is our homeland and that alone we would want to defend, my guess is that we PUBLIC would have no wish to invade or participate in a war.

The Government, thats a whole diffenrt thing. We wouldn't get a say in their descision whatever, it has gone like that for centuries - ever since 'power begun'. You ask me War Games are exactly that - Games. Adults playing out their childhood fantasies of evil, sorry but that is what was is - EVIL WAR reverse it- LIVE RAW! My own thoughts are that WAR is an ongoing game. The thing is with games is that they have 3 parts. The beginning, your debriefed and go on your mission. The journey, here you develop your skils, and find achievements. You may lose a few times and need to start from the beginning again but you learn from your errors and progress further into the game. Your Goal is to complete the game to the End, You win you are rewarded, you lose you start again.

Its a bit like sports where hey have leagues, you can see the same format in football/soccer. You get into the Premier league by winning the 1st Division league. Work your way up, though it could take many seasons, you win and the reward is a trophymoney/celebration, you lose the league and you drop a division. Funny some followers of that are also violent (The Hooligans), so passionate about their team they has disrespect for all others.

Anyone for banning war games - you know like they banned british bulldng at school because if was deemed to rough and dangerous. Silly teachers teaching children to play nice, their peers wish to do the opposite.



[edit on 3-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

Originally posted by MCoG1980
I think he means we are all still have our Boudiccian roots. Boudicca was very Iconic. She and her followers fought for their people and thier country, to protect theirrselves and country against invaders. In a nutshell i think he means we feel strongly about defending our own turf i.e. our country - that said i dont think there would be that many wanting to go out and invade countries - despite the history of the people that has ruled over us doing just that. It is our homeland and that alone we would want to defend, my guess is that we PUBLIC would have no wish to invade or participate in a war.

The UK does not have to worry about being attacked by anyone. First world nations do not attack other first world nations.

And I highly doubt a third world nation is stupid enough to launch an attack on the UK. As if they would have the means and capabilities necessary to do so...

Originally posted by West Coast
With that will come a set of problems though. How would you arm, and sustain the population? That would be a logistical nightmare. You would also have to contest with an enemy who would be trying to cut off supply lines.

We'd have months to prepare as any invasion attempt would be apparent and defendable in the medium term by the RAF/RN. See WW2, the exact same principles apply now as they did then. We had an entire secret army ready to fight the Germans before the Blitz even began.

Originally posted by West Coast
If the roles were reversed, would it be any different?

I'd like to think friends help friends for free, obviously that is not the American way then?

Originally posted by West Coast
I have a pretty good idea on what the US is working on, and I can assure you, the UK is not on the same level.

Read my piece again, I only said on some things and listed them, although on several things in your list of US "wonder-weapons", the UK is up to speed. I'm not about to enter a tit-for tat wang contest with you, as I know what you're like. Many of these so called "wonder-weapons" are just pipe dreams that never actually appear, at least how they were first envisioned.

Originally posted by stumason
Read my piece again, I only said on some things and listed them, although on several things in your list of US "wonder-weapons", the UK is up to speed. I'm not about to enter a tit-for tat wang contest with you, as I know what you're like. Many of these so called "wonder-weapons" are just pipe dreams that never actually appear, at least how they were first envisioned.

You cannot discount anything from the video, or anything I have said. You have nothing of substantial proof or an understanding about what is being talked about. These are not some cheap thrill 'wonder-weapons' that you falsely elude to. This is so far beyond what you can comprehend.

This is being called the biggest government commitment (of any kind) to technological research since the space program. They are building a "God on Earth" system. It's unprecedented. You are sadly wrong to think this is old hat, or that this won't "change the situation". It's going to change everything. Full Spectrum Domination is the aim of this open ended program I spoke of. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself on what they are developing, and what they already have available. The FCS program itself is a $200 Billion transformation project with 25 prime contractors and 600 more sub-primes.

“This is a huge engineering development challenge, which is why we’ve engaged industry to help us,” says Paul Mehney, public communications officer for the program manager for FCS. “It’s a revolutionary way for the U.S. military to do design and development.”

WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 (UPI) -- Software developers in a secret Boeing plant are developing a weapons program some U.S. officials say is the largest such program in Defense Department history.

The U.S. military classifies its Future Combat Systems software program as dwarfing Microsoft Windows in the length of its code, The Washington Post (NYSE:WPO) said Thursday.

I have said before, that this will make the militarys of the world obsolete. The US military forces of 2020 will be able to dictate whatever it wishes on its own terms with very little fear of retalitation, which is scary, as the implications of this technology being developed are quite extordinarily scarey in itself.

This is a whole other thread. I dont want to further derail this thread, if this is something you want to continue, u2u me. Or perhaps we can make a seperate thread.

Here are some interesting reads about some of these 'wonder-weapons.'

FCS changing the face of Battle.

Massive defense software under scrutiny


[edit on 3-1-2009 by West Coast]

[edit on 3-1-2009 by West Coast]

Well, I for one think that the UK can hold it's own...(Im from the US)When and all out war happens, economies go into overdrive producing war materials. Look back in WW2, the number of tanks etc we had in the beginning compared to the ones in the end.Either way I see the UK as a strong and trusted allie.(typo?)

You will have Canada on your side since your Queen is on our coins. So this means a submarine from WWII, 200 well trained Peace Keepers with Billy Clubs, 7 tanks from the 1950s, and probably 4500 drunken piss tanks from rural Canada who know how to gut a Moose and make Pemmican. But they will be good shots with a deer rifle drunk or sober.

It is impossible to disarm a country unless you lock everyone in a padded cell.

Guns and other illegal weapons are easy enough to come by. There are plenty of gun clubs, plenty of people who hunt.

A can of spray and a lighter is a makeshift flame thrower.

Some alcohol and a rag become a molotov cocktail.

Bleach, or anyu other toxic chemical is easy thrown over people, or used as poison.

My bed is made of metal, cut the steel tubes out, knock the ends into piepes and I can have about 25-30 spears.

At times much of England was mining communities, any large convoy of vehicles could simply be sunk with a little ingenuity. My home town could effectively be entirely split off from the outside.

Heck a guitar hero controller to the face will to some good damage.

Guerilla tactics would be rife, effective defenses could be mounted without the government. Unless the invading country intends to nuke and kill every single person living there, we can defend ourselves.

we british seem to work better with our backs against the wall, the thought of a group of (insert nation name ) army units being ripped apart by a mob made up of every section of every community in the area...gives me a warm happy feeling inside.