If mankind is to survive, then religion must continue.

Originally posted by Alienmojo

I prefer to search for the truth, there is some truth to alot of things, absolute truth in nothing. I believe there is a higher power, but I also think there is much more to it that what is spoon fed to us.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by pureevil81]

Oh most definately I agree with you that there is so much more to it. I'm sure we'll find out when we get there. I'm just doing the best I can with the cards that I have. I look for the truth as well, that's why I've read so much on the existence of Christ and others from non-religious sources. Its a long road and I'm doing the best I can brother... that's why I like talking to everyone here, it gives me more ideas and such.

I am uncomfortable talking about the generic word religion in regard to a personal walk with Jesus. Religion covers far to much ground to be taken as a cause to preserve. I believe we should simply seek to show the same love and caring for our fellow man as Christ showed us, If we do this, all the rest will take care of itsself. Malcontents will always call us names and seek arguments from us. We shouldn't yeild to their gameplan. Simply smile and say nothing. Show kindness in the face of scorn. We are told in scriptires, " As it was in the days of Noah so shall it be in the day of the comming of the Lord." We can hope for nothing. Have full faith that He will not leave us or forsake us. We are about to have that faith tested to it's max in the days ahead. We will see wonders in the heavens and signs that will be designed to deceive if it were possible even the very elect. Our focus in these times must be to seek decernment to overcome these attractive misrepesentations and stay focused on Christ only. Witness with your life not with your mouth. You can save no one and God will save whom He will. Our goal should be to be a shining beacon...that is all. God bless...

reply to post by John Matrix
Do I believe that all doubts can be washed away. I'm not sure. I've met people who say they have no doubts. I always seem to be battling back and forth, but I NEVER give up. So I guess I have to answer yes for others but not so sure for myself.

Originally posted by DroolsAlot
Instead of copying some other dudes thread and making it about the opposite, couldnt you have just argued your point on his thread? Seems kinda dumb you started this one. Just my opinion.

I take it you haven't read the whole thread... let me restate. It's called sarcasm. I did it for a purpose, not just to copy the dude. Don't forget that of the 522 words I used only 107 were his. By copying him I was trying to show that he was incorrect by using his words. No, I couldn't start my own thread because the whole point of it was that my opinion was the reverse of his. Sorry if I offended you if you didn't get it.

Originally posted by reiki

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned about Allah, and comparing him to Christianity. Allah is only the arabic name for God. Much like dieu in French. It is not a different God. Islam recoqnises Judaism & Christianity. The folks within their scriptures, are people of the Qu'ran also. Idiots abound that say they do things in the name of Islam, sure. These folks are misguided.

I see the point, i really do, when folks say spirituality is what is needed. I'm spiritual myself, not religious. Some folks like a set framework though. Perhaps as time goes on, they'll feel they won't need it. People make/change their views at their own pace. And within spirituality, no-one is right, and no-one is wrong.

we should realise, idiots in government, and powerful positions, have abused and hijacked, and politicized, a common message..

To realise there is something greater than our individual self, and to be kind to everyone.

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 24-12-2008 by reiki]

Hi Wayne, thanks for your comments. Very well spoken. The only thing I question is about whether the muslims believe in the same God. I remember reading somewhere that Mohammed chose his god from a bunch of gods and he used the sun god. I'll freely admit I don't know what I'm talking about here..lol Does anyone recall ever reading anything like that or was it just bs I read somewhere. I have to do a little research on it. I may have picked that up off of a radical Christian site and you just can't trust that kinda stuff. Not trying to piss off any Muslims or anything, just stating something I heard and I will look for the answer. If anyone has a link that would be great, I'd love to read it.
Thanks again for your input brother...take care now.

Originally posted by count66
Religion is not the evil that destroys mankind as its made out to be so often on ATS.

The biggest mass murders every to have taken place on this planet were by atheists - i.e. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung - all killed countless millions and all avid atheists who felt mankind had no place for religion.

These people showed that if you remove the values that religion tries to bring then you also remove the many moral boundaries that religion brings with it.

True religion is about loving god - how do you show your love for god - by showing your love for his creation - all his people no matter what their colour or creed.

God bless and Happy Xmas to all.

Hi Count... very beautifully put. Its all about love brother. The Beatles had that right. Happy Xmas to you as well.

Allah is the god of the old testament - the islamic believe that they are descended from the tribe of Ismhael rather then the tribe of Jacob.

They believe that Jesus was a great prophet and will return on the last day but that he wasn't the son of god - the Mohammed came to rectify that mistake and that Jesus was only the second last prophet.

Thats what I have read anyways.

Originally posted by Frith

If there is some purpose to life, its not about being good or bad and facing some reward or punishment at the end, its something else which I do not feel any organized religion has got right yet. Some may be close, but I think more real study into NDEs and past life memories could provide more clarity.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Frith]

Hey there Frith, thanks for you comments. This last part struck me the most about what you said. The purpose of life...wow...big question. Maybe that is something that can be answered for all with the same answer. I think it is different for all of us. For some of us it is about good and evil or our faith in God. Each person has to make his/her own choice. I think making a statement that the purpose of life can't be about good or evil is wrong then because its an individual thing. Does that make any sense? Thanks again for your comments brother, I enjoyed reading them.

Originally posted by juveous
mankind isn't going to survive plain in simple. now If we are talking about getting along......then when it comes to things like deities, external powers from aliens, mystic superstitions, then its all a matter of what you believe isn't it?

There is no point in trying to outlaw or abolish these beliefs. If you don't agree with them, then stay out of them, unless they are affecting you. If they are affecting you, then reason with them. If you can't reason with them, then deal with them. If you can't deal with them, you might want to just accept them for what they are. you don't have to agree with them, but you should accept the fact that those kind of beliefs are still awaiting to be proven, you can't entirely disprove them, not now, not ever, accept that and leave them be if you've tried everything.

Welcome Juveous. Why is mankind not going to survive? I agree with most of what you said. I just think all the different religions should respect one another rather than trying to kill each other. Thanks for your comments.

Originally posted by count66
Allah is the god of the old testament - the islamic believe that they are descended from the tribe of Ismhael rather then the tribe of Jacob.

They believe that Jesus was a great prophet and will return on the last day but that he wasn't the son of god - the Mohammed came to rectify that mistake and that Jesus was only the second last prophet.

Thats what I have read anyways.

That's right, I think I remember now. They went one way and the jews another in regards to the tribes. Sorry, its been 15 years since my religions of the world class. Think I only got a 'B' in it too.

Oh, and I remember where I read that weird thing I was talking about... you remember those little tract books that somebody hands out? It was in there that I remember reading something about muslims and a sun god. Same tracts that say your going to hell if you don't do this or that and that all homosexuals are going to hell. Must be nice to know who is going to hell and whatnot...funny, I thought only God knew that.

Bang on Alienmojo.

I'm a christian myself but as I always say to the hardcore - judge not lest ye be judged!

Actions speak louder then words so rather then preach to me - go and help the poor - get your faith into action - usually don't get much rubbish from them afterwards ha ha.

Originally posted by count66
Allah is the god of the old testament - the islamic believe that they are descended from the tribe of Ismhael rather then the tribe of Jacob.

They believe that Jesus was a great prophet and will return on the last day but that he wasn't the son of god - the Mohammed came to rectify that mistake and that Jesus was only the second last prophet.

Thats what I have read anyways.

I just found this, but I only scanned it. Check it out and let me know what you think Count.
www.biblebelievers.org.au...

The bible believers address makes me wonder how much to believe. If anyone else knows about it feel free to comment as well...thanks

Thanks Alienmojo.

Scanned the site as well - I don't buy it.

Sounds like the similar sort of crap that Jordan Maxwell and co say about Jesus and the bible - just its the Sun God in that case.

reply to post by Alienmojo

You say that if there was a God he wouldn't let bad things happen. I disagree. God allows it for many reasons... many His own that I can't possibly comprehend. But I do know two of the reasons are because we have 'free will' and the other is so we learn from our mistakes. My belief in God allows me to trust Him and so I do.

Would you say that the god that you believe in is all knowing? Would you say that god is infinite? Most people I have spoken with would agree that god is all knowing and infinite. If god is all knowing, how is it possible then that we have free will. If god knows everything that has ever been or ever will be how is it possible then to have free will over decisions that god already knows. And if god already knows everyone of our decisions or actions we do not have free will and if we do not have free will and all of our actions are planned or known by god then god is allowing bad things to happen and if god is allowing bad things to happen, how can he be all loving? Do you see the contradiction here.

i would never claim that nothing but good would come from a world with no religion, just as I would not claim that all good would come from everyone accepting religion. Humans are prone to failure, poor decision making and short sightedness.

You say that it makes you sad that someone does not believe in a better place after you die, but it makes me sad that there are people who think and are waiting for something better, when it could be that this is all there is.

I dont hate you for your beliefs and you seem to be much more open minded than most who participate in a form of organized religion but the fact of the matter is that most people are not like you. Most religions fear other religions and pray for them because they believe that their religion is the one TRUE religion. This can create an atmosphere or fear and hate, that can perpetuate violence.
You are correct that many wars have to do with money but the problem is that many that are fought for money, use religion as the scapegoat to justify the war that they will make money on. Vietnam may have not been a directly religious war but the term "godless communist" has been used a lot to represent many in vietnam.

reply to post by Alienmojo


The problem still is that people take it over board and they try to shove it down everyones throat.

Stem cells are a very fitting example because think of all the good they can do if they could, they could grow organs, they could help paralyzed people regain movement in their limbs, and I dont even know what else but so many people are against it because god says it wrong. My belief is that the dead if at all possible should serve the purposes of the living.

Originally posted by Alienmojo

Originally posted by Muundoggie
reply to post by Alienmojo

 

How can you say mankind has not learned to love? Are you saying that I am living a lie? I know I'm a romantic... I want everyone to love each other and help each other. It gets me in a lot of trouble here... I don't care... I love ya all anyway.

I love you as well but that doesn't mean that mankind has learned to LOVE.


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Doggie I think you kinda proved my point there. If you love me...then you have learned to love... and aren't you part of mankind?
Mankind has empathy and love... I just feel you aren't seeing it. Its there. Tv news just makes it look like everyone hates each other. I truly belive that the vast majority of humans love each other... its just that bottom percentage, the rotton apples, that ruin it for everyone else. Maybe I'm being just hopefully optimistic in saying that I believe the percentage is higher for those that love than for those that hate.

Its not just TV news always showing the bad side of things, there is honestly a very bad side of things. There was a report just released (sorry no link, google if you want the article) that stated that there are more people enslaved in the world right now then ever before. Which is somewhat skewed because obviously there are more people but you would think that if we had advanced at all this number would go down. And if you think the TV news shows only bad stuff, you would be surprised to know that the US media does not cover hardly any of the true atrocities going on in this world. The problems in Africa are horrendous but the media doesnt touch it. Bad stuff happens and it is the fault of man, not religion, religion is only a tool for people to use to justify their behavior. Similar to the quote, guns dont kill people, people do. Same with religion.

Originally posted by count66
Allah is the god of the old testament - the islamic believe that they are descended from the tribe of Ismhael rather then the tribe of Jacob.

They believe that Jesus was a great prophet and will return on the last day but that he wasn't the son of god - the Mohammed came to rectify that mistake and that Jesus was only the second last prophet.

Thats what I have read anyways.

To add to your comment Ismhael's half brother was Isaac. Their father was Abraham. Ismhael's mother was the concubine named Hagar. Isaac's mother's name was Sarah. Isaac had two sons, their names were Esau and Jacob. Jacob's name was later changed to Israel.

Abraham's God is the God of the muslims. However, there is a dispute as to which family branch (Sarah or Hagar) this God went to.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by lostinspace]

This is a subject I have been thinking about for some time. I am a Christian myself, but I don't belong to any church, much less go to any of them. I feel I have a little more room to look at the subject. Ever since I first noticed the haughty and superior attitude of the Southern Baptist Convention church members who supported Bush and his cohorts, I smelled a rat. I looked up their history and found it was taken over in what was called a 'hostile' takeover. I found it unsurprising it was described in 'corporate' terms as the takeover itself was political in nature. The very first thing they did was to abolish the 'Priesthood of the believer'. Which means that each believer had a personal relationship with GOD and he was to responsibly interpret scriptures for himself. They didn't like that. They want to dictate a man's conscience to him by demanding that they listen to the leadership and them only in matters of conscience. Uncoincidentally, this is pretty much the same in our constitution which is termed 'Freedom of Conscience'. They are the ones who wants big brother watching us and they do NOT even know GOD but do this for their personal financial interests in power and property. I believe these so-called leaders are the biggest traitors in our nation and that they are behind the push for surveillance and violations of privacy of the American people. That would be bad enough, but being so against GOD, they would naturally have to cast Christians as a whole in a bad light in order to get away with their crimes and treason. And that's how I figured it out....if I was in their shoes and I wanted to persecute Christians and get away with these things, how would I do it? And it was really quite clear. Tar them all with the same brush and you get away with murder. And you can call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe many of the worst talking people who call themselves atheists as well as Christians are working for these same folks to keep the antagonism going and the American people divided on issues. So they keep provoking anger and hostility against religion. Not surpringly, as their names are legion and work for the prince of this world. I think a lot of people finally figured this out seeing how the elections turned out this year. But I think you can expect them to keep on with their dirt, still trying to get it all going again. ~Happy Holidays~

reply to post by Replikant

Put yourself in God's position. If you saw what your beloved creations were doing, murdering, stealing, corruption in YOUR name, explicitly going against every rule that you laid down, destroying the earth and nature, and denying that you even exist, how would you feel?

But according to people who believe in christian god, humans were created by god, in his/her image. Its like being mad because your dog misbehaves but its really because you didnt train it. And if god created man with faults and then is mad at the faults that he/she created then it makes god a fallible being and a fallible god creates many contradictions that render the belief and worship of such a being irrelevant.

I think that religion was important in our early years of civilization because it really motivated us to achieve and advance. Religion has brought on many great discoveries. However that was then, now we need something new to motivate us to advance we need open minded spirituality.

Right now religion is doing nothing but causing conflict all over the world, if we got rid of the set in stone rules that is required from religion and replaced them with something new and open minded we would be a lot better off.

I think clearly that mankind's ideas of God are evolving. You say in your post that God of the old testament was a wrathful or vengful God because that is what the people then needed. I think this is bogus reasoning.

Human understanding of their creator has evolved not God. God remains unchanged. Mankind has improved in his understanding of the divine in nature.

I think the evidence is clear and if you look at the religious faith of mankind it has changed to that of this modern God of love. In the past when the Humans thought that when the ground shakes and God spits out fire and brimstone that God is angry they were in fact living near a Volcano and mistook these natural mems as supernatural evidence of God's anger.



[edit on 12/24/2008 by UFOTECH]