If man kind is to survive, religion must end

Yes, dogmatic control has been with mankind since inception, sorry.

Here is the True Origin of, e.g., christianity, a fairy tale from start to finish. One that the followers will kill you for, in their earnestness.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by robwerden

Oh god don't even get me started on religion. THERE ARE OVER 40,000 RELIGIONS IN THE WORLD. 40,000! What truly makes you think your 1 religion is the correct one and that all the other 39.999 others are wrong? I'LL TELL YOU! ITS BRAINWASH. SELF INFLICTED BRAINWASH INDUCED BY A MYRIAD OF REASONS! This is the level of ignorance and stupidity we live in. This is the what we allow ourselves to wallow in. Endless wars over opinions, fighting like siblings in the home about trivial things no more important than a opinion. Whats important? THE WORLD DOESN'T SEEM TO KNOW. WHY??!!!!

Because they don't want to know. They don't want the truth because its not something easy. It's something that would direct their thoughts to something important instead of their microwave toasters! I can't say anymore. This is truly saddening and disturbs me. We the people deserve what is coming because we are not taking action against it why?

BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO. maybe at the moment of climax and right before it kills us we will be willing to change. unfortunately i think then it will be too late.

robwerden, you know what you are talking about and I agree with you completely my friend. Sometimes I think the antichrist is something good instead of something bad, only considered bad to the closed minds of our religious world.

Originally posted by robwerden
I am not alone in my general feeling that somehow religion damages society more than it helps it.

That is an awfully broad statement. I would tend to think that the person(s) behind the religion(s) is/are the one(s) who can damage you, not the religion itself.

Religion, like I said before and is my belief, represents hope. It is something to put faith into when all else has failed you. If anything, maybe it helps to motivate you to do the right things and make it through tough times....etc. I base this on me myself believing in God but I am not a member of any church. I am more like a religion of one and I am the only member of my religion...does that make sense?

Here is my answer to what I think you are saying:

I think a few of the current popular religions are corrupt and breed this corruptions in their followers.....but what do I know? I am no scholar of religion.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
reply to post by WisdomInChains

 

Hmmm...you must be part of that NWO i keep reading about on here....it's nice to finally have a name of one of you guys. Sheesh.

I don't know if 90% is a little too high of a number, that would have to be worked out. And I don't think you can just do it. You have to gradually bring the population down, but if you could get everyone on the same page(willing, unwillingly, knowingly, or unknowingly) you could dramatically drop it in 1 generation, that's not too bad.

Have you and your illustrious organization thought about going that route instead of just wiping everyone out and dealing with the mess?

I was thinking more along the lines of russian roulette except with nukes

Originally posted by robwerden


War, Policy, and pretty much everything else that effects the growth of man as a species is driven by people who use religion to direct them.

Religion must stop, end of story. Logic and common sense are the only things you should look to when you are faced with a problem.

Religion is being used as a TOOL for political and personal gains, that is the negative side to it. BUT religion is NOT the real problem. Because it's simply the tool. It's the man behind the tool that's the problem. Therefore getting rid of religion will not help, actually it might be way worse, people will just use other means for their politcal and personal agendas. (and you might hate it WAY more than religion)

The source of the problem IS the individual. People ALWAYS find things to argue about(e.g look at youtube and imdb lol), things to go to war with. It's human nature not religion.

Lastly religion will NEVER end, you cannot stop freewill. Even if it did end, thinking the world will be better off doesn't seem like common sense. Because like I said, religion is only a small part of the problem, the real problem is within certain people.




[edit on 23-12-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Why has secularism killed millions more than anything associated with religion?

Just look at the 20th century!! 10's of millions killed by humans with secular philosophies.

look at the middle ages, maybe 10's of thousands killed over hundreds of years, and most of that was because of governments (even if they were "christian" governments.)

Am I way off?

reply to post by robwerden

Religion should be willingly abolished. No forcing religions to be illegal. Believe it or not, we still have that choice. But I still think religion should not be forced on children. Allow them the choice, to see the facts (or lack thereof).

Bill Maher has got you whipped into a frenzy. Bill Maher doesn't want logic to rule...he wants HIS logic to rule. Another atheist wants HIS logic to rule. You anti-God folks just keep proving the Bible to be 100% correct. IT says in the last days men will be lovers of themselves...Bill Maher, all you athiests ... know better than God.
How long after you push 'the button' that resolves all religion ...will new and old religions come back and take over the world like they do now?
Godly nations have done nothing but prosper. Pagan and antheistic societies throughout history are bleak, dark, colorless, cold, fear-filled societies like East Berlin, North Korea, Vietnam under Pol Pot, Stalin's regime, etc.
You act and blog like you believe the lie...but inside you know the truth.
You guy's don't hate religion...you hate God because you don't want to bow down to Him. BUt you will. And you know that. Deep inside you know that. At 3am when all your dope-smoking like-minded friends are gone....and you can't sleep from a burning inside you that tells you God is real...yet you are too cool and to afraid of your peers to accept that fact...so you lie there in fear and anxiety that only comes from disavowing the very God that stands knocking at your door. Knock! Knock! Neo! You hate it because God is everything and you are nothing. You hate it because deep inside in places you hide while sipping starbucks and with your atheist buds...you KNOW that you KNOW that God is REAL and you are nothing... Bill Maher is nothing... Richard Dawkins is nothing. He thinks Aliens seeded the Earth.
Before you put up another lame post...why don't you go out and rent EXPELLED : NO INTELLIGENCE ALLOWED. And watch it.

the greatest achievement of institutionalized religions like atheism or vatican is to make the sheeple believe that religion have no essence.
(that a part of the sheeple believes life is suffering is just business as usual for such institutions that have ultimately nothing to do with religion, well what it is in essence what it is before some wise guy decide to use it to control mass)

sheeple,

you are just throwing the baby with the (dirty) water of the bath : the opening post of this thread is highly obscurantist and ignorant.

(if tomorrow some other wise guys manage to use arts -as example- to enslave people, you'll be all asking for abolition of arts as donkeys run after a carrot!)

[edit on 23-12-2008 by ::.mika.::]

reply to post by WisdomInChains


Thats really not a good method, for numerous reasons.
There's gotta be a better way to reduce the population.

reply to post by robwerden


an interesting proposition, but I think ultimately short sighted. People need something to believe in, even if its nothing at all. Despite all the wars and strife in teh name of some god, there have been as many if not more advances in society because of religion as well. Its a double edged sword that you can at best, blunt the cutting sides of.

Yes, despite what some think, atheism is a religion as well. What we need, is a wholesale lesson in tolerance on many fronts. But that's not the only thing.

For man to survive, we can try quick social amputations, but those woul dbe as detrimental as they might be beneficial in the short term.

Take away money, and all value from material possessions? You start to get a lack of drive to advance forward.

Homogenize all cultures and languages to put everyone on equal footing? You then breed mediocrity.

Make one world earth based religion? You go from 'my invisible friend can beat up yours" to "my tree is better than yours" and the cycle starts again.

My radical idea? Turn the clock back on medical science about 75 years and freeze it. Trust me, after a generation of aids, cancer, death via child birth, heart attacks and so on, a lot of people are going to start eating better, exercising, wrapping their willies before sex, washing and taking care of each other as well as themselves.

Want to lower the birth rate and even out the population? put the care, welfare and funding of a child solely on the woman's back and trust me, they're going to start getting REALLY careful about breeding.

Arm everyone. EVERYONE. As soon as you can pick up a firearm, you get training in how to use it. BUT... (taking a page from chris rock) make ammo expensive as HELL. so if you're going to shoot someone, its going to be really worth it. IF you're willing to plunk down $7000 per bullet, you deserve to put that bullet into whomever's head you want. I don't think anyone is going to question it when they look at someone who's been swiss cheesed and then realize "damn, someone spent $100K smoking this guy, he must have REALLY messed up. People will get a whole lot more polite if you adopt a 'first bullet is free' policy too.

Legalize drugs (oh lord I can not believe I just said that) and make it abolutely legal to discriminate because of it. Make it like a license.. like cars.. you can drink yourself stupid, but don't get in that car. likewise, you can toke your braincells away, but get caught on teh job with it in your system, and you ain't smoking no more.

I totally agree with the writer on this subject and I do believe that religion and greed are the root cause of all the problems facing our planet. Just Listen to the song "IMAGINE'. Then take a look at this web site - www.teamhumanity.com... and please, open your mind.

Originally posted by robwerden
Religion must stop, end of story. Logic and common sense are the only things you should look to when you are faced with a problem.

thats only if you want to live within the system, for those who want to ascend further, well figure it out for yourselves

reply to post by tankthinker


And religion is not a system that people live in? Wake up my friend becaue it is a system, a very narrow and very primative system.


Cheers!!!!

Coffinfeeder-Heres some food for thought.Religon IS THE ONLY REASON WE HAVE COME THIS FAR.Your ideas are all centered around accountability of self,I particularly like your suggestion that women be 100% responsible for providing for their children as a means of birth control,however you may want to consider JAILING ANY PARENT THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT THEIR CHILDREN.We have millions of men walking around randomly impregnating women at their leisure,the destruction--advancement?of our social structure [marriage]since the 1960s has been devestating to the entire world.I am forty years old and NOT A BABY-BOOMER so I dont subscribe to the 60s as being a time of advancement socially,speaking on the behalf of our entire world--NOT SMALL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.I consider any man or woman[gay or feminist OR religous follower OR politician]who is willing to put their own personal WANTS ahead of the species to be a part of a small special interest group.Take care of your responsibility to the human race--then you can pursue "your individual wants or kicks if you will".One day you might realise that the only difference between yourself and a starving human in africa IS YOUR "KICKS"OR YOUR UNNATURAL DESIRE TO SACRIFICE HUMAN LIVES FOR YOUR PLEASURE. The advancement of our species has been delayed immensly by the "sandbagging"or the "undermining"of the most advanced culture on earths SOCIAL STRUCTURE,remind anyone of the romans?Religon can never end because it is the glue that holds humanity together right now.If you take religon away and dont provide an alternative explanaton to all of mans questions that the masses can understand then you let the boogeyman back in.And no aliens wont ever replace religon because they are known to us therefore they are also creations of God.Mankind does not need religon to survive we need each other to survive and to accomplish survival we need to work co-operatively --to work co-operatively we need to SHARE A COMMON PERSPECTIVE OR REALITY .Religon is the easiest most effective method of bringing human beings to a VOLUNTARY COMMON PERSPECTIVE OR REALITY.Religons as we know them are ALL manmade or man created,this is obvious because every religon on earth is designed to SEPERATE OUR REALITIES THEREFORE DIVIDING MANKIND.Only a human could be selfish enough to attempt to seperate or divide humanity.Only a human could be stupid enough to put their own "personal desires "ahead of their species.DONT YOU SEE THAT WITHOUT RELIGON WE COULDNT BE bad or selfish or evil.The concept of a small special interest group having a right to defend their reality or perspective AT THE COST OF A SINGLE HUMAN BEINGS LIFE OR WELL BEING comes from our religous beliefs.Do the math its simple. Six billion people on earth means [lets not get to hung up on technicalities like excact numbers ok?]that if you have less than six billion "yesses"YOU ARE A SMALL SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP THAT IS OFFENDING HUMANITY BY YOUR VERY CLAIM TO A JUSTIFIABLE EXISTANCE. We are confused because we are like test tube babies,we may be alive but we dont have any memories of being in the womb,we have never heard our mothers heartbeat so to speak. Imagine the first "sentient"humans huddled around a fire seeking the protection and security of each other in the face of mother natures indifference,they needed a common cause to bring them to a common perspective or reality or they wouldnt be able to function as a supportive interdependant group,and they would then perish,thunder and lightening with a little fire thrown in is a hell of a motivator to co-operate isnt it?Especially if you dont know what those things are,IF THEY ARE THE UNKNOWN THEY FRIGHTEN US INTO CO-OPERATION.We require an unknown or fear to put aside our "personal wants",to allow us to co-operate as a species.Do you see now why the 60s was an attack on our species?The me generation all right.Religon must not end it must be accepted as one entity one secondary to mankinds survival.Speak up boomers

Personally I could care less what people believe (or choose not to believe), as long as they respect my right to believe (or not believe) what I want to believe and practice (or not) that belief. But regarding the OP's recommended method to "abolish" religion - choosing not to associate with people of faith.

What on earth do you expect that to accomplish? WHO are you that you think people will willing turn their backs on their faith to be by your side? What makes you and your associates so great that you think you can encourage people to abandon their beliefs so they can associate with you folks?

I would suggest that this gross egotism and megalomania you display is a main reason why you have been attacked so fiercely. Basically your argument boils down to a very juvenile way of thinking - grade school politics at best. Ostracize the ones you don't like unless they roll over to appease you so they can join your very exclusive clique....gee - nerds vs jocks all over again!

Imagine an anti-gay person (whether a person of faith or not) decides that he won't associate with anyone who is openly gay and practices that orientation publicly. Or that a Democrat tells any Republicans he knows that he won't have any thing to do with them until they renounce their current political views and become Democrats. So, do you really think those sorts of actions will eventually get people to turn their backs on their beliefs (or gays, or members of a particular political party?)? All I gotta say is good luck.

That's your prerogative - if you don't want to be around people of faith, then do as you like and have nothing to do with them. But I doubt very seriously if you end up changing any minds - even if you are as wonderful of a specimen of humanity as you put on to be.

Yes, it is rather hidious when looked upon, wars in the middle east, people even blowing themselves up in order to kill others. But the real question lies here: was it really their true beleif in God that made them do such a thing or did some people just fall short of the discipline and true practice of their beleif when they committed such an attrocity like that? There lies the underlying truth. Christians are instructed to strive towards justice and fairness in the act of business, but then alot of them fall for acts of greed and selfishness. And it was not the bible or the religion that caused them to do that, only their own falling from the honor towards their God.
Also, we are not aware of all the attrocities that have gone on in the middle east. Many many many innocent people have been killed there due to the war and many people are very angry. International corruption has spread around there and they dont like it. And out of curiosity, I have browsed through a copy of what they call the Holy Koran and I have failed to find where it says to go out and kill any and all christians. What was real funny was when I read something in the Koran that seemed to rank Jesus as the highest of all the rasools including Mohammad who was the inspired messanger of the Koran! But I failed to find anything that said to hate chriatians and jews. It did say something about how many christians and jews were claiming to follow the way of God but were hypocritical but to forgive them and go on one's way. Only in the protection of the church did Jesus get violent. So much for religion being the cause of distruction. I think true religion is the opposite.
NEVER THE LESS,,,,,,, I DO NOT APPROVE OF IMPOSING RELIGIOUSLY BASED MANNERS OF LIVING AND OPERATION ON ANYBODY. Forcing homosexuals apart from each other is not going to save any souls! Closing down bars will not stop a person from sinning! Banning guns will not stop a murderer from being a murderer! And it wont save a soul. Athiests and satanists have every right to live and have a good life and enjoy life as long as their way of living does not afflict other's lives, and religious people have every right to live and have a good life and enjoy life as long as their way of living does not afflict other's lives. Allrighty now.
Wars still do happen because of economic reasons and the mistakes made by humans. We are all imperfect and must strive for the best humanitairian operation possible. No, I never beleived in killing anyone who did not beleive in the same religious or nonreligious way that I do, but at the same time, I dont want anyone to kill me solely on account of the way that I sincerely beleive. I have every right to beleive on what I beleive in, and I never ever heard any voices in my head saying "Hey, go kill that person". Common sence and logic is included in my beleif and I have a right to beleive in what I beleive, it hurts no body but it seems to really help me. I just dont want to be thrown into a concentration camp because I beleive in what I beleive in.

Being an atheist gives one a unique perspective to look at religious people and institutions objectively. Although I am simply amazed that people can buy into the world's oldest fairy tales, I have to agree with the religious folks in this forum and say that on the point of war, etc. abolishing religion will not fix the problem. I do agree that religion is used as a tool to gain support for a particular policy, war, or other idea. However while religion might not be the direct cause, the entire idea that one should suspend individual thought and accept interpretations of 2000 year old texts or suffer eternal damnation or lack of eternal bliss is the very thing that allows religion to be so easily used as a tool to justify an agenda.

I do almost see this as a chicken/egg problem though. Are people so unintelligent that they are willing to accept whatever myth their parents injected into their heads when they were young and impressionable children? Or has the nature of organized religion, the idea of having faith or suffer a consequence, dumbed people down to a point where they will follow anyone that claims to champion causes in the name of their faith? I would think it's a combination of both as some people simply follow because they always have and some people search for a religion that makes the most sense and provides the most comfort in providing an answer to everything.

To those of you that would like to see religion abolished, I think eventually your wish will come true. Humans used to worship the sun, the moon, the stars, etc. then on to polytheism, then like a math formula someone simplified it to monotheism. It's only been a few thousand short years in this current stage of religious evolution. And if you look at the world now compared to 1500 years ago, it contains significantly more atheists and individual spiritualists. The churches of the world are at their weakest points ever. Throughout this evolution and the formation of self governance humans have realized that moral philosophy is the positive component of religion and coupled with self-governance can address the needs of society while the myths of supernatural supervisors in the sky are largely outdated.

Having said that there are still a significant number of people that do believe their religion is the correct and true way and will push it with all of their power. However these people will continuously trip up on their own hypocrisy and the world will eventually marginalize them to a point where they no longer matter to the rest of society.

In other words the problem will eventually solve itself and if it doesn't it's because we destroyed ourselves over a number of ridiculous reasons before it could.

Mankind's use of religion has caused all the troubles on earth.

God hasn't, Jesus hasn't, Allah hasn't, and whichever god you can think of hasn't.

I agree, ban religion the way man has interpreted it.

The problem is those men in power, not religion.

Religion have been suppressed many times in history with some succeeding, but guess what happened??

The men in power in those times, elevated themselves to a status of a God and demanded worship and absolute obedience from their subjects or face severe punishment. They created a religion revolving around themselves.

So the problem is not religion but man himself. I've seen this behavior right in ATS forums. Some member here have discarded the idea of God, but claimed that they can be Gods in their own right.

The idea of 'you are your own God' is disgusting because the word God is often associated with oppression, intimidation, and slavery. You can't be a good God, but you can be a good friend.



[edit on 24-12-2008 by ahnggk]