If man kind is to survive, religion must end

reply to post by Freelancer


Maybe you missed the part where I said I don't want to associate with people who are attached to religion. If I am to be consistent with my goal and the means in which I hope to achieve it, I must follow through by only discussing it with people who agree. By not talking to people who disagree, I place them in the position in which they are ostracized and there fore left with 2 choices, which are either abandon religion, or be ignored by me.

I replied to you because you did not show me which side you are on yet.

I'm sorry but sadly the people in this thread that view "religion" as the threat to our society are misinterpreting the main issue, which is selfishness.

Being self-centered and focused on our own needs more than the people around us is the primary problem with our society today.

-Today, stuff takes priority over people
-Today, we will gossip and tear other people down to make ourselves feel better
-Today, we watch more TV and focus more on entertainment than we spend time reviewing history and discussing the real issues at hand
-Today, corporations and major companies start the wars seeking power and money
-Today, religions are taken out of context and used as excuses for atrocities that no real religion supports
-Today, we have people taking the easy road and blaming religion for the world's problems when the real issues lie within people, themselves

As long as selfishness and self-focused lifestyles persist our world will suck.

Selfishness will be the downfall of humankind. It must end.

Now to close with some "religious" advice to stop our world from sucking and to ensure the survival of the human race.

-love your neighbor as yourself
-love people unconditionally
-do unto others as you would have them do unto you
-feed the hungry, house the homeless, help the sick, and be there for the widow
-think about the needs of others before you think of your own needs
-empathize with people before you judge them or talk about them or hate them

Doing the above would result in a far better world and ensure our survival as a race far before eliminating religion would.

So, examine yourself and ask, "Am I just parroting the trendy rhetoric that religion must die if we are to survive or am I actually changing myself and becoming a person who is focussed on the needs of the people around me?"

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Bugman82]

Didn’t read the rest of your post but this stuck out to me. I think the OP meant war in a general since, the war that rages in the Middle East and past wars that have been fueled by religion. Religion has certainly played a part in war and different meanings of war (hostilities, confrontation, combat, warfare, conflict) through out our history. There is no need to dismiss that while defending religion, it makes the rest of your point moot.

Then the OP is speaking nonsense.

Because of wars in the past, and because of war between uncivilized, undeveloped countries we should abolish religion?

A fail to see a point being mooted - Following that logic, I should abolish all economic establishments, all systems of state or country, and any reason a human being would disagree with another human being.

Because it started a war?
Nonsense.

That would mean we all believe the same thing.

And that'd be more Hell than a thousand crusades.

LOL! sorry OP, but your statements are actually pretty lacking. To say if religion is abolished, things will be better is pretty naive IMO. As has been stated, nothing will change, we will just find other things to hate each other and divide each other (race, hello?) Also, I find it pretty sad that you believe that we should abolish one of the mediums by which people try to spread a message of love towards your fellow man.

You want to abolish the REAL cause for wars, for the sad state of this planet, look no further than greed. Seems logical, no?

Bill Maher I love him to death but his idea of getting rid of religion is to get rid off all but his own as shown here



Youll see some fine hypocrisy.

BTW I happen to agree with the Op

im not saying I totally disagree either, BUT...if you are saying you watched a movie that was made by Bill Mayher and now you think religion should be abolished...hmm let me think about this...you watch too many movies. I do agree things have to change, but not because Bill Mayher says so.

The OP has things backwards...



Without fear of the wrath of a higher power, there is no accountability, and with no accountability, you have chaos... Plain and simple. The police wont be able to control the population, the population has to control itself...Period

Oh, we're not going to survive. I think that's a "given."

But it doesn't have anything to do with religion. It has to do with us being like successful rats in a small cage. We overpopulate, we ruin the environment, we become a breeding ground for highly resistant diseases, we invent Artificial Intelligence that will outlive us forever.

For all these reasons, it is unlikely human beings will survive another 5,000 years. Maybe less than 1,000. Just a blink of an eye in geological terms.

But, what the hey. It was a good run. And besides, once I die, so will the Universe, so what do I care?

Why don't we start with responsible adults having children? Statistically speaking, the majority of kids today are raised by young, mostly irresponsible parents. My GF calls it 'baby's having baby's'. She's a teacher and has good observation to this unfortunate concatenation of citizens.

I agree religion has caused many global issues, but at the root of mankind is an individual attitude and skill-set inherited by his or her prophet err parent.

When kids can sing a Kanye song before they can read I'd bet the farm that's not a good thing.

Hummm while I'm not religious but I do actually believe that the world was a better place without...

Atomic Bombs,
Missiles,
Guns,
etc, etc.. you know without science, I think mankind was happier when it was simpler.

OP, Stop being such a superior prick and let people believe what they want... the world would be a lot better place without arrogance in my opinion, the worlds greatest problems where committed by arrogant people whether the front of it was religious, scientific or not.

One thing Id like to point out is the question, can this strategy work?

We have seen that in religion from the dawn of man, religion changes. There are people who have kept track of the growth and decline of each religion and they have also kept track of new religions that spawn from unsatisfied people looking for a change.

So what causes all of this fluctuation? The cause is being unsatisfied, persecuted, oppressed or simply giving up. Peer pressure is a powerful tool organized religion uses to drive people to either be more religious or to abandon their current religion for another by converting them.

Islam is the fastest growing religion because they use peer pressure to convert people.

Interestingly enough Judaism which is one of the oldest is now one of the smallest religions at only 14 million world wide.

Christianity is growing very fast due to conversion.

Here is the interesting number No religion and Atheist is currently at about 925 million. So that is about 1/6th the world population.

All those numbers are not important as much as the fact that they fluctuate. The change indicates that religion is not a constant.
So my goal is to use the same method of peer pressure that organized religion uses, but to pressure people to abandon religion all together.
How to convince someone to join a religion is a large task because you have to explain the features of the religion and entice them into it. To pressure someone out of religion you simply need to tell them they are not the type of person your want to associate with.

It seems like many on ATS are already familiar with this tactic. MSM has been using it against Conspiracy Theorists for years. By not acknowledging something, it is squelched and the louder your scream, the crazier you are made to look. I have seen this tactic work so many times.

Religion represents hope (to me it does). Hope has nothing to do with what you know or who you are. No amount of logic can take the place of hope.

Religion has been part of culture. Taking it away is not the answer.


My 2 cents.

Here is an open ended question to all those who have starred and flagged this thread: Would you support your country instituting a national religion?

Obviously, judging by your support of the OP, you would be against it. You would say such a thing would infringe upon the citizens' right to either worship or not worship as they choose.

So how is the proposal in the OP any different? It would be demanding the people follow the 'religion' of atheism.

Hypocrites. You have become what you hate. Enjoy your NWO.

On a side note, lol @ 'Ron Paul' in the OP's mood and 'Liberty Hill' formerly in their location slot. Freedom for your view but not for others, eh?

reply to post by robwerden


With all due respect robwerden, you are entitled in our free world to voice your opinions and beliefs, I have no argument on this issue. Rather than attack your opinions or beliefs, my argument with your Opening Post is that it if it is as strong as you have stated, then surely it is strong enough to hear both sides without it damaging your original convictions.

I will not take any sides since this is clearly not in your agenda.

However, for those that oppose your ideas is it not better to hear them least you become so set on one idea, one opinion, as your grandfather shown to you that you become one and the same.

Had you not been so pressured into making these religious commitments against your free will as an individual person in your own right, is it possible that you would not be so anti-religious? If you can truthfully answer this then I will be happy to state where I stand with your opening statement.

This merits a reply. (I know that sounds arrogant, but that what I am)

I never said make a law. Don't confuse my ambition of abolishing religion through social pressure, to abandoning my admiration for the Constitution and the rule of law. Laws don't need to change and I am not insinuating oppressing any one. I'm suggesting ignoring them on a personal level only.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Here is an open ended question to all those who have starred and flagged this thread: Would you support your country instituting a national religion?

Obviously, judging by your support of the OP, you would be against it. You would say such a thing would infringe upon the citizens' right to either worship or not worship as they choose.

So how is the proposal in the OP any different? It would be demanding the people follow the 'religion' of atheism.

Hypocrites. You have become what you hate. Enjoy your NWO.

On a side note, lol @ 'Ron Paul' in the OP's mood and 'Liberty Hill' formerly in their location slot. Freedom for your view but not for others, eh?

religion is not what will destroy man kind, it's the people in charge. the people in charge don't follow any religion they pervert it so that it's message is twisted and they can manipulate it's followers to do what they want them to do. it's not religion that must go, it's the people that wrongly interpret it. what the majority of the church believes (let alone of any religion) isn't what it's meant to preach. for example islam means peace but radicals twist the quarans meaning around so that they can have violent followers. jesus christ didn't teach anti-abortion or banning gay marrage.

the people who blame religion as the source of man kinds struggle are wrong. it's not religion that will destroy us. it's not the church itself that preaches the negativity that people perceive, it's the illumunati editing all the scriptures. just like the way they filter news on the radio and television and the way that the people who run this website filter what they believe is worth reading. how can this website be the truth when it's filtered just like the news

reply to post by robwerden


Wow what a small mind, Im agnostic but to take the stand this individual has is so feeble minded it borders on ridiculous but I do have to give him kudos for pointing out that its his opinion firmed and shored up by "A MOVIE" that religion must die and he wont debate it. So I have to say the tail got pinned just where it needed to be, he is a winner.

reply to post by robwerden


I would throw out five or six of my own flags on other articles simply to take off one of your flags. What ridiculous nonsense. Its irritating that people can be so obsessed about religion, and just insanity to pretend it is some kind of magical entity where if it didn't exist our lives would magically improve. Religion is just another philosophy.

The absence of religion is VERY easily replaced with other philosophies that are just as "bad". What happens when you have a state in anarchy? It is quickly replaced with other powers because there is a power vacuum there. In the same way, a religion that disappears causes a philosophy vacuum and is quickly replaced. To suggest whatever philosophy it replaces must by definition be better is complete nonsense. Maybe instead of religion their new philosophy will just be to get tons of sex, money, and hookers and party as much as possible. Maybe not, and maybe so. You are just totally clueless to say that whatever replaces religion will HAVE to be better.

Furthermore, I can't believe people can be so naive as to believe that religion has so much to do with just about any problem we are facing today. Go ahead and ask any real-life mid-east terrorist why he hates America. I bet you a check of $100 he or she will say *NOTHING* about America having the wrong religion. Won't even mention it. They will mention, U.S. POLITICAL DECISIONS which if you believe were because of religion then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!

PS - Please don't respond to this message as I won't be back... I really don't care about 100% non-issues like the existence of religion. I'm just annoyed it took up a lot of front-page space so I had to speak out against it.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by truthquest]

reply to post by robwerden


Well rob, you've produced a definite candidate for the most bigoted OP ever. Nice going.

religion should be abolished right now

Your statement is the very antithesis of a tolerant society in which men and women have freedom of conscience and the right to practice their religion. Worthy of a Secular Taliban, no less.

I just sat with my daughter and watched the Bill Maher movie "Religulous" about religion, and although I know he hand picked the wackiest of all people to put in his film and did some creative editing to boost the point, the bottom line is the point is correct.

Nope. The bottom line is you've admitted the evidence for your case couldn't be weaker, but you'll push on with your agenda anyway.

War, Policy, and pretty much everything else that effects the growth of man as a species is driven by people who use religion to direct them.

Funny how the most oppressive, murderous system that ever cursed the face of this earth was hell-bent on the eradication of religion: bolshevik communism, epitomized by Stalin's slaughter of 50 million of his own people. Hitler comes a fairly close second with his 'destroy anyone who doesn't kowtow to the Führer and his NWO'-style regime, with all people of faith and conscience sent to the camps if they as much as aid and abet Jews, Gypsies and the disabled.

Logic and common sense are the only things you should look to when you are faced with a problem.

If bigotry/persecution is your idea of logic/common sense you are portraying yourself as a thug.

logic tells me I just got a whole bunch of people angry, and they are going to want to debate me on this. So im not going to debate anyone here, by simply not replying to any comments that show disagreement

This definitely IS the most bigoted statement I've ever read on ATS.

I can't believe how many people have jumped on your 'I hate religion' bandwagon without taking time to mull over how much like Stalin/Hitler you sound.

If you don't like what I have to say, then put me on your ignore list, because that is where you are going as well.

'I'll ignore you if you don't agree with me'. With this you reach new heights of bigotry. Sorry Führer, it's people like you that 'affect the growth of man as a species', as you put it, by spewing and spreading hatred.

Merry Christmas.

Id like to point out to the people who agree the following fact.

People who have disagreed with me through out this thread, have resorted to attacking me personally. Notice the name calling, the insinuations and the general hostility. Isn't it now a self enforcing fact that religion breeds hatred when one person voices an opinion that is contrary to religion?