Our Future Leads to Our Present...

reply to post by autowrench


They are not visiting you through time. They are visiting you from their experience, and experience is in the now, there is no time in experience.
Eternity is the now.
Eternity is not an endless (and supposedly patched up) line of time.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
How will you travel back in time when you know Earth is moving in space?

Where will you end up? Empty space?
You'd have to manipulate the whole Universe, not just the Galaxy.

Haha...I'm guessing they would have that part figured out beforehand.

reply to post by NavalFC


You're 100% correct NavalFC! Sadly though, the only way some people have been able to hold onto their beloved time travel theory and cancel out the paradox (because they desperately want it to be true) is to start talking gibberish on alternate time lines.

Dan Burisch anyone?

IRM

[edit on 18/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by NavalFC

 

You're 100% correct NavalFC! Sadly though, the only way some people have been able to hold onto their beloved time travel theory and cancel out the paradox (because they desperately want it to be true) is to start talking gibberish on alternate time lines.

Dan Burisch anyone?

IRM

[edit on 18/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

So you're placing a limit on our technological capabilities for the future?? What gives you this narrow view of our future race? You've decided there's a paradox, therefore our future scientists will overlook or dismiss the opportunities available to study prehistoric man or evaluate weather patterns from centuries before? You assume they would interfere I suppose.

I love it when 'dead-enders' come up with a single conclusion as to why an advanced race of humans couldn't achieve something. You guys put limits on us which is truly, unfortunately, the greatest 'gibberish' of all.

Tell me something, at what point in our history do you stop moving forward, stop advancing?

I thought the future was only created by the mind....im always in the present...those that have traveled to the future can you tell me what its like?

reply to post by Graphix10


At least we are realistic. We aren't the ones inventing ways to prolong a fantasy. Entropy doesn't allow for backward time travel. Alternate realities/time lines are just another unfalsifiable pseudo science. Pure drivel!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by Graphix10

 

At least we are realistic. We aren't the ones inventing ways to prolong a fantasy. Entropy doesn't allow for backward time travel. Alternate realities/time lines are just another unfalsifiable pseudo science. Pure drivel!

IRM

Yep, Einstein and Newton only dealt in fantasies. Nothing they've ever done has been published, studied, or proven...! Theoretical physicists only write kids stories. String theory - forget it! Multi-verse - no way! And what was that other thing? Oh, that's right, the Theory of Relativity. That must've been an episode of Star Trek.

I'm glad Tesla's parents didn't tell him his interest in Theoretical Physics and electrical engineering was, as you put it "pure drivel". Imagine where we would be.

I have no problem with people being skeptical, but don't close your mind to possibilities that may work, if only in theory (for now). And when you confuse theoretical studies with fantasies, you're showing a short-mindedness in terms of human progress and development.

Please tell me you're not a scientist.

Entropy is controversial at best in terms of Quantum Physics. To say that it "doesn't allow for backward time travel" automatically makes you the smartest person who's ever lived. Congratulations.


[edit on 19-12-2008 by Graphix10]

reply to post by Graphix10


What's funny is mainstream pop culture has actually picked up this idea.

The Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles series on Fox last monday had its own take on the idea, but with machines from the future instead of humans.

They used CARET drones and even mentioned the Big Black Delta craft among other things. One massive CARET/hunter killer appeared at the end of the episode. Too bad I have to wait till Feb to figure out whats the deal with the CARET drones and the Big Black Deltas.

I have no idea where theyre going with it, but I found it pretty interesting. I wonder how long it will be before they connect the Time Space displacement technology to Project Rainbow?

[edit on 19/12/08 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by Graphix10


You have to realize that we here on earth are part of the universe, time is not some localized phenomenon, its is universal. What we experience as time is the movement of the earth, solar system and the galaxy within space. If everything would stop, time would also.

Earth is moving 30km/s
Sun is moving 220km/s
Galaxy is moving 550km/s

So if you were to travel back one second in time you would need to reverse the movement of the earth by 30km, the sun would need to go back 220km and the galaxy 550km. Then there are all the other stars and planets within the galaxy that would need to be reversed plus other variables we dont know that are connected to the universe expansion and gravitational effects of other galaxies around us.

You must see this is impossible right?

Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by Graphix10

 

You have to realize that we here on earth are part of the universe, time is not some localized phenomenon, its is universal. What we experience as time is the movement of the earth, solar system and the galaxy within space. If everything would stop, time would also.

Earth is moving 30km/s
Sun is moving 220km/s
Galaxy is moving 550km/s

So if you were to travel back one second in time you would need to reverse the movement of the earth by 30km, the sun would need to go back 220km and the galaxy 550km. Then there are all the other stars and planets within the galaxy that would need to be reversed plus other variables we dont know that are connected to the universe expansion and gravitational effects of other galaxies around us.

You must see this is impossible right?

Yes, I mean it does seem impossible. I understand that. But I'm not saying a hundred years form now, or a thousand, or even ten thousand. I'm saying AT SOME POINT. To say something or anything is impossible, given an infinite amount of time, just sounds crazy to me.

Two hundred years ago, if you'd said people could fly across the ocean in big metal birds, everyone would've said - impossible! Now that's only 200 years, yet you guys sit here and tell me it's "impossible" to do something given unlimited time?? That just doesn't make sense. So I keep asking - At what point do we stop advancing? By the way, I think your idea of spinning everything backwards sounds a whole lot crazier than building a time machine. I'm talking about traveling to specific points in time, not spinning backwards from our present course.

Originally posted by Graphix10


Yep, Einstein and Newton only dealt in fantasies. Nothing they've ever done has been published, studied, or proven...! Theoretical physicists only write kids stories. String theory - forget it! Multi-verse - no way! And what was that other thing? Oh, that's right, the Theory of Relativity. That must've been an episode of Star Trek.

I'm familiar with all the theories you've mentioned yet your subtext would suggest that I can't have if I disagree with your idea of what is or isn't possible in this universe. That's a false assumption.

String Theory, Super String Theory, Theory of Relativity, Brains, Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Black Holes, Quantum Physics, yada yada yada.

Most of these people are getting grants to simply say "Imagine If". None of the science is solid. It's a situation where bad theories require the 'invention' of new theories to plug the gaping holes in the math & logic. Kind of like having to create 11 dimensions to account for 'gravity'.

At least Einstein gave us something observable and measurable. The rest is just poppycock until proven otherwise.

Sure I agree with you that anything is possible given enough time which means we should also prepare to be invaded by an evil armada of Stay Puft marshmallow men from the Sugar Cane Nebula.

What's that I hear you say? "That ain't gonna happen?" "It's not likely!" "The odds against it are unfathomable!"

Hmmmm

IRM

[edit on 19/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by Graphix10


Yep, Einstein and Newton only dealt in fantasies. Nothing they've ever done has been published, studied, or proven...! Theoretical physicists only write kids stories. String theory - forget it! Multi-verse - no way! And what was that other thing? Oh, that's right, the Theory of Relativity. That must've been an episode of Star Trek.

I'm familiar with all the theories you've mentioned yet your subtext would suggest that I can't have if I disagree with your idea of what is or isn't possible in this universe. That's a false assumption.

String Theory, Super String Theory, Theory of Relativity, Brains, Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Black Holes, Quantum Physics, yada yada yada.

Most of these people are getting grants to simply say "Imagine If". None of the science is solid. It's a situation where bad theories require the 'invention' of new theories to plug the gaping holes in the math & logic. Kind of like having to create 11 dimensions to account for 'gravity'.

At least Einstein gave us something observable and measurable. The rest is just poppycock until proven otherwise.

Sure I agree with you that anything is possible given enough time which means we should also prepare to be invaded by an evil armada of Stay Puft marshmallow men from the Sugar Cane Nebula.

What's that I hear you say? "That ain't gonna happen?" "It's not likely!" "The odds against it are unfathomable!"

Hmmmm

IRM

[edit on 19/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

IMAGINE IF has us flying at supersonic speeds, IMAGINE IF has put rovers on Mars, IMAGINE IF builds safer cars, IMAGINE IF is the first thing every great inventor says. All modern science starts with theories, none of it's solid or it wouldn't be called 'theories', it would be called 'laws' (as you know).

You say I'm talking about fantasy because I mention Time Machines...and you counter with...The Stay-Puft Marshallow Man?? Bravo.

What was the part about you being "realistic"?

[edit on 19-12-2008 by Graphix10]

reply to post by Graphix10


Of course it is crazy, we are talking about time travel here, it is something so impossible that its crazy to be speaking of it as a possibility yet. It is simply a sci-fi fantasy that will never come true. The only possible way to do it is the impossible way that would need all the energy in the universe reversed, thats not even debatable at this point.

You suggest a simple time machine that just jumps into another time. How would that work? I would love to hear your theory.

Originally posted by Waldy
reply to post by Graphix10

 

Of course it is crazy, we are talking about time travel here, it is something so impossible that its crazy to be speaking of it as a possibility yet. It is simply a sci-fi fantasy that will never come true. The only possible way to do it is the impossible way that would need all the energy in the universe reversed, thats not even debatable at this point.

You suggest a simple time machine that just jumps into another time. How would that work? I would love to hear your theory.

First of all, I never said anything about a time machine being simple. And I'm not a scientist or physicist so I have no idea how it would work. I'm not here to offer you theories. Your skepticism seems to have blocked out your imagination.

How could you say things like "It is simply a sci-fi fantasy that will never come true" when we're talking about something that might take a million years to figure out? You really think that's out of the realm of possibility? It will NEVER come true. You guys like the words NEVER and IMPOSSIBLE. It's kind of an easy way out.

I wonder if we have scientists sitting around in their labs saying "We will NEVER cure cancer, it's IMPOSSIBLE". We might as well quit trying I guess.

I guess your years of study in Theoretical Physics leads you to the conclusion that time travel is impossible? Please, share your vast knowledge or theories on how advanced human beings, given unlimited time, would ignore the concept of time travel. Please share. I'm curious how you came about this definitive, all-knowing conclusion to the finality of advancement of the human race.

I also noticed a slight contradiction when you said "its crazy to be speaking of it as a possibility yet".

"YET"? That doesn't go well with words like NEVER and IMPOSSIBLE. Think about it.

Originally posted by Graphix10
How could you say things like "It is simply a sci-fi fantasy that will never come true" when we're talking about something that might take a million years to figure out? You really think that's out of the realm of possibility? It will NEVER come true. You guys like the words NEVER and IMPOSSIBLE. It's kind of an easy way out.

And suggesting something as unfalsifiable as "in a million years - yada yada yada" isn't taking the easy way out?

At least were sighting valid scientific reasons such as entropy and the astronomical energy requirements to achieve such a thing, if at all possible. In return all we are getting from you is imagination. Imagine this, imagine that, what if - and so on yet the subtext in your posts is riddled with a sense of unwarranted self righteousness.

Sure it's ok to dream and carry on but at the end of the day you must pay homage to our limitations. It is, at the end of the day, what is real in our current context.

Also you use the phrase "are you a Theoretical Physicist?" often yet by your own admission you are are not, therefore it kind of makes the question/argument invalid. Is it ok for you to hold your opinions and not be a physicist, yet not ok for us? Just wondering because you consistently display this attitude.

Also you didn't address how physicists need to do stupid things like create theories with 11 dimensions to make up for what is already a flawed model of physics. Surely a true model would have symmetry and wouldn't require band aids? Therefore would it be safe to assume that everything else that's based on those models may also be false?

IRM

[edit on 19/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by Graphix10
How could you say things like "It is simply a sci-fi fantasy that will never come true" when we're talking about something that might take a million years to figure out? You really think that's out of the realm of possibility? It will NEVER come true. You guys like the words NEVER and IMPOSSIBLE. It's kind of an easy way out.

And suggesting something as unfalsifiable as "in a million years - yada yada yada" isn't taking the easy way out?

At least were sighting valid scientific reasons such as entropy and the astronomical energy requirements to achieve such a thing, if at all possible. In return all we are getting from you is imagination. Imagine this, imagine that, what if - and so on yet the subtext in your posts is riddled with a sense of unwarranted self righteousness.

Sure it's ok to dream and carry on but at the end of the day you must pay homage to our limitations. It is, at the end of the day, what is real in our current context.

Also you use the phrase "are you a Theoretical Physicist?" often yet by your own admission you are are not, therefore it kind of makes the question/argument invalid. Is it ok for you to hold your opinions and not be a physicist, yet not ok for us? Just wondering because you consistently display this attitude.

Also you didn't address how physicists need to do stupid things like create theories with 11 dimensions to make up for what is already a flawed model of physics. Surely a true model would have symmetry and wouldn't require band aids? Therefore would it be safe to assume that everything else that's based on those models may also be false?

IRM

[edit on 19/12/08 by InfaRedMan]

Oh it's the Stay Puft Marshmallow guy again, here to add more 'realism'.

Entropy - could it prevent time travel? Yes, I think so. It has to be a major obstacle at least. In fact, LOTS of things can prevent time travel....TODAY. But we aren't talking about today, are we. We're talking about however long it takes for us to figure it out. A thousand years, ten thousand, whatever. And yes, it is unfalsifiable because it can't be proven false. I would guess anything built ten thousand years from now would be unfalsifiable because we can't prove that we won't make it.

You are obviously at odds with the scientific community, questioning their '"flawed model of physics", yet you aren't a physicist either. How did you learn more about physics than a physicist?

So my question/argument is invalid because I'm not a Theoretical Physicist?? What a tough crowd...

You have to be forward thinking to have this discussion but some of you are stuck in the 'here and now', using our CURRENT understanding of physics.

And what does "pay homage to our limitations" mean exactly? I'm not sure what our limitations are going to be but apparently you seem to know. We have until the end-of-time to advance so tell me where you see the limitations. I'm curious to know. Thanks.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Graphix10]

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Graphix10]

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Graphix10]

In theory everything is possible... hate when ppl castrate theoretical science cause that is the source of everything we have today...

Now for time travel... I was hoping we would invent the warp drive first.

Originally posted by Graphix10

Oh it's the Stay Puft Marshmallow guy again, here to add more 'realism'.

LOL! I can live with that! Sure!

You are obviously at odds with the scientific community, questioning their '"flawed model of physics", yet you aren't a physicist either. How did you learn more about physics than a physicist?

I never said I did! Not even close! Your paraphrasing and twisting the intent of my words.

So my question/argument is invalid because I'm not a Theoretical Physicist?? What a tough crowd...

No... Again... I didn't say that. Your twisting the words to create a new debating point. What I said was you were using those words against us - stating we weren't theoretical physicists, therefore what would we know. I was merely stating that you weren't either which nullifies your use of it as a debating point. Perhaps I should be clearer next time?

And what does "pay homage to our limitations" mean exactly? I'm not sure what our limitations are going to be but apparently you seem to know. We have until the end-of-time to advance so tell me where you see the limitations. I'm curious to know. Thanks.

I've already discussed my points using easy to understand English. Are you asking me to restate my points because you can't be bothered to scroll back & re read them?

The end of time.... WOW! That's a long time my friend! Our civilization will probably die out before then just like everything else before us. History is a good guide no? Better than a guess? To say we have forever is improbable... but hey, that's another debate entirely.

Great chatting with you Graphix10! I like differing points of view. That's the beauty of this forum. We must do it again some time ehh!

IRM Out!

reply to post by InfaRedMan


InfaRedMan,

Good chat! You made good points and stuck to your guns. I enjoyed that as well. We're all just trying to find our own answers about this strange little rock we're floating on. Take care. Until next time my friend...

[edit on 20-12-2008 by Graphix10]

Some points about time travel...

If, as most of us have heard people say, our brains store every detail and every experience of our lives in our brains like a big hard drive, someday with nano technology we could possibly retrieve every memory stored there and through advanced technology project it in some 3-D display so we could in essence "jump back" in time in our own lives and re-live a moment or even a day exactly as it was lived before. Everything would look, feel, smell, taste etc as a total re-living experience but we could not change a thing, we could only relive it. That's one feasible way to "travel back in time".

Another more difficult thing that may someday be possible (or not) would be to jump into a parallel world in the multiverse where the other world is almost the exact same as the one we travelled from. Physicists like Michio Kaku are convinced these parallel worlds exist but they have not been proven and no theories yet on how one might jump from one to another and especially how to retain any memory of the one you left behind.

Other than those two possibilities, I don't know how you would slip the timeline you're in. If I had a clue, I'd be another Einstein already, ha ha! Not happening.