A Question About Adam and Eve vs. Dinosaurs

reply to post by Jenna


I hope I didn't come off as mean, it was not my intention. Sometimes I do when I feel personally attacked, not that you did so I wouldn't want to attack you either. I rather liked your questions and even though you may not agree you will get another side of things if you read my sources. Take it or leave it but Reasonable people look at all the evidence then decide, you seem reasonable to me so I hope I didn't come off as harsh..

If I did please Forgive Me it wasn't my intention, it is just this topic is on of my Passions, as I am sure you may well tell...

reply to post by theindependentjournal


No worries. I didn't think you were being mean and didn't feel attacked. These are the kinds of discussions I enjoy when I come on this site. Doesn't take agreement on everything to have a good discussion, at least I don't think so. I will read those links you provided once I get a chance. It's time that time of day for me when the oldest comes home from school and I have to get dinner going or I would read them now.

Edit to add the following:

Finally had time to read all of that and it occurred to me that even with my limited knowledge of how the various forms of fossil dating work, pretty much everything was phrased to make you think that a young earth is the only possibility.

Then I tried to do some research on the author of that particular book-turned-website and came up with a lot of nothing. I did find a blog where the author and several of the people who left comments were attempting to find some background info on the guy and couldn't find much of anything aside from one web page that has since been taken down. The author of that blog actually did a series where he discussed a large portion of the book in detail.

He apparently is a free-lance reporter with a B.A and an M.A., but can't find anywhere that lists what his actual degrees are in, and he has written a book on alternative medicine though he hasn't had any medical training from what I have found, two books about evolution though he doesn't have any degrees in any field of science, and a bunch of end of the world type books. So really he doesn't have much credibility at all. I couldn't even find anything about him on the links you provide. Pretty much the only things I could find on him were either books he wrote or co-wrote and page after page of people debunking his claims.

So I went out and found an article written by Dr. Roger C. Wiens on The American Scientific Affiliation titled Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective that disproves many of the things that Ferrell claimed in the link you provided. And I went and checked to see if Wiens was legit prior to posting here.

From Reasons.org
Dr. Wiens has a PhD in Physics, with a minor in Geology. His PhD thesis was on isotope ratios in meteorites, including surface exposure dating. He was employed at Caltech’s Division of Geological & Planetary Sciences at the time of writing the first edition. He is presently employed in the Space & Atmospheric Sciences Group at the Los Alamos National Laboratory

And I found a biography page about him.

I would appreciate it if you would read through Wiens' article, he is a Christian but is a believer in the "Old Earth" theory and provides facts to back up his point of view.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Jenna]

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Cain took a wife from his sisters, why do you people seem to be able to grasp every conspiracy and alien thing but can't GRASP THE SIMPLEST OF THINGS???

Because I was told that Adam and Eve had two kids. Cain and Able. I was never told of any daughters.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

Because I was told that Adam and Eve had two kids. Cain and Able. I was never told of any daughters.

(Genesis 5:4) 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.

No great leap to imagine Cain taking an anonymous unnamed sister for a wife.
Even happens today in some places.

To sum it up:

Eve conceived & gave birth to Cain after she was cst out of the Garden along with Adam.

Cain killed his brother, but there is nothing to indicate how old he was when this happened.

Adam & Eve had other sons and daughters that were not named in the Bible.
(Genesis 5:4)


Cain evidently took one of his sisters or perhaps even a niece as a wife. She went with him when he fled to the land of Nod and later bore his children.
His descendants are listed in part and include men who distinguished themselves in nomadic stock raising, the playing of musical instruments, and the forging of metal tools as well as those who were known for their practice of polygamy and their violence. (Ge 4:17-24)

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

Because I was told that Adam and Eve had two kids. Cain and Able. I was never told of any daughters.

(Genesis 5:4) 4 And the days of Adam after his fathering Seth came to be eight hundred years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Sparky63]

Oh, so when Adam was 800 we find out he had had some daughters and started a little incest family tree? Duh, why didn't I just see that?

Why was their incest not an abomination on the entire human race? Was it not a sin yet?

[edit on 19-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
...
Doesn't that imply that dinosaurs never existed?

...

The earth is only 10.000 years old

The Ultimate Dead Beat Dad put dinosaur bones in the earth to test your faith.

If you believe something in your hands rather than what The Ultimate Dead Beat Dad's friends wrote about The Ultimate Dead Beat Dad, then The Ultimate Dead Beat Dad will send you to hell

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

The OTHER question is this? Why do YOU ASSUME that Noah didn't take dinosaurs?
I think he did and HAD TO under the story and God's orders to Noah...

Read Genesis 6 before commenting o it...

Noah didn't take the dinosaurs because they would have eaten him and all the animals!!!

That's why they are now extinct.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The idear that all of this was created only a handful of thousands of years ago is retarded.

All life on this planet, up to a point, was created from the same tree of life. Many many creatures rose up out of the quagmire of evolutionary mud before humans ever showed up. Dinosaurs were one of those creatures. That was millions of years ago.

Adam and Eve arived onto a planet already peopled. The bible never said Adam and Eve where the first people, only the first perfected people, but the planet had already enjoyed a full and rich history before that point.

Adam and Eve only showed up around 38000 years ago.More of the truthful story?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

The OTHER question is this? Why do YOU ASSUME that Noah didn't take dinosaurs?
I think he did and HAD TO under the story and God's orders to Noah...

Read Genesis 6 before commenting o it...

Actually, no flesh lived according to the bible. God said, "the end of all flesh has come before me", but REST found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Noack/Noah means "Rest". "Rest" had 3 sons, 1st was Shem which means "Name". Second was Yaw-fith which means "Expansion" and the youngest was named Cham/Ham and means "hot of habitat".

So in short God found grace in "Rest" which is Sabboth. He found grace in a "name" to be remembered by. In that name he "expanded", until he reached "Hot of Habitat" where we currently are.

The Ark was a coffin and can be found in egypt. It was not built from wood, but from stone pitched inside and out in Kefa, not Kupris/Cypress. The translators did that on purpose to hide everyone's common link right in front of their eyes causing thousands of years of wars....war pig style

You see the image of the "Sphinx" is the same Golden Calf, symbolized by the Idol of Jesus that was worshiped and is worshiped today, only today we call him the "Lamb".

Just remember what the "sphinx's" headdress is representative of....A Cobra..a serpent. Ever wonder why they say Jesus had long hair? Think Serpent....do the twist.

Peace

"See what's in front of you and the rest will become clear"

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


Or you could realize that the Bible has two different creations of men and women. The first creates "men and women". The second creates Adam, from whom Eve was later created.

There were men and women in the world before Adam and Eve. Adam was just the first one in covenant with the Hebrew god. Ya gotta remember, the Old Testament is tribal mythology.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Well I don't think by your post yo want the education you asked for in your last line! Your first line claimed the Bible wasn't true so is there any answer I could give that would educate as you say or inform as I would say as to where the Dinosaurs are in the Bible???

They are there and they are in Genesis as well as other books, but I see no reason to give you this information as it seems your mind is already made up.

What if I started a thread and my first sentence was to tel those I sought replies from that no matter the reply I was going to ignore it as stupid. How well would that go over? Well you've done it and I can not see any reason to waste my time telling you anything about the Bible, for you seem to already know and have formed an opinion about it...

I wish you luck in your search!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Or you could realize that the Bible has two different creations of men and women. The first creates "men and women". The second creates Adam, from whom Eve was later created.

Pastor Murray??? I have seen this interpretation and I haven't discounted it completely but I don't know about it either... I will say that without Pastor Murray I probably wouldn't be a Bible Believer today...

It is my opinion that this is a waste of time in here, the OP said in the first sentence sarcastically that the Bible is false so no matter what you tell him form it, he will discount it..

It's a lame attempt at slamming God, Christians and the Bible...

reply to post by theindependentjournal


Ma'am (sir?), I'm about as far from a pastor as you can get while still being a mammal.

Get a thicker skin. The OP doesn't believe in your particular brand of voodoo. I'm sure you don't believe in his, either. And seeing as how we're in a forum pretty much dedicated to people going "You're an idiot! No, YOU'RE an idiot!" ya gotta have a little give.

He wants to see how literalist Christians interpret the bible on this point. Not every questioning of your book is an "attack on god"... Please. As if your god really cares that the OP doesn't believe in him...

[edit on 19-12-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


No were you referring to Pastor Murray's teaching of two Mankind creations?

I guess not or you would have gotten the point, no worries...

As for this topic, I posted the Dinosaur Verses, and I would assume that everyone knows that Dinosaurs either walked on land, swam in water or flew in the air and a simple cursory examination of genesis gives the day all those things were created...

No one has looked they have only resorted to the Bible is a fable responses and that leads me to believe that they care not about an answer as much as a chance to flame god, the Bible and Christians... Ad with so many GOOD REASONS to flame "Christians" this is what they come up with, ALAS.

Edit - The last sentence is said as a Christian myself...

[edit on 12/19/2008 by theindependentjournal]

Originally posted by Incarnated


Adam and Eve arived onto a planet already peopled. The bible never said Adam and Eve where the first people, only the first perfected people,

Adam is clearly referred to as the first man here:
(1 Corinthians 15:44-45) . . .. 45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.. . .

It does not say, "first perfected man " as you stated. Adam is also described as being made out of the dust of the ground...not arriving from some other planet.





[edit on 19-12-2008 by Sparky63]

reply to post by Sparky63


I know what you're saying and I happen to know the teaching of 2 Adams, maybe not this other persons version of perfected but the two creations and you misstate one thing in your post...

Here is the basic outline Gen1:26 - God CREATED them Male and Female... OK Created and both sexes... OK now

Gen2:7 - And the LORD GOD FORMED Man out of the ground and breathed life into him...

Okay we got what appears to be 2 creations, some think that the Races(ethnos) were Created Gen 1:26 and that he Hebrews came from Adam in the Garden Gen 2:7...

There are different words used in the original Hebrew, we have Genesis 1:26 Adam which is Man. And we have Genesis 2:7 Ha Adam or The Man (ruddy complected also) which is the color of the ground...

I will not say whether I buy this interpretation as to yet because I can see points to both sides actually and haven't made up my mind. I think really that the argument should be made moot by Noah's flood but again we have Biblical Scriptures that could be used to support both angles...

It says that 8 souls were saved, now is this Adamic Bloodline souls? Some would say no and refer to the verse that says of EACH FLESH take two aboard... Now this verse would absolutely include other races if in fact Adam and Ha Adam are two different creations...

I lean against it because I see to much racism seeping into the theory of two Adams but that doesn't mean it didn't happen that way...

Lost as usual!

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
No were you referring to Pastor Murray's teaching of two Mankind creations?

Nope, got it during my own study of the bible.

As for this topic, I posted the Dinosaur Verses, and I would assume that everyone knows that Dinosaurs either walked on land, swam in water or flew in the air and a simple cursory examination of genesis gives the day all those things were created...

Well, so far as we know there were no swimming or flying dinosaurs, but I get the gist.

No one has looked they have only resorted to the Bible is a fable responses and that leads me to believe that they care not about an answer as much as a chance to flame god, the Bible and Christians... Ad with so many GOOD REASONS to flame "Christians" this is what they come up with, ALAS.

Edit - The last sentence is said as a Christian myself...

[edit on 12/19/2008 by theindependentjournal]

I've been posting around here a while. Genuine criticism of Christians or Christianity just ends up with our local cross-toters screaming about being oppressed (and yet, there remain so many starving lions...) and so really, the silly stuff tends to be what gets the best debate going.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox...so really, the silly stuff tends to be what gets the best debate going.

AH HA sad but true. Interesting that you got two creations of Adam without the teaching, but very good deductive reasoning. Whether or no that is the case who can say but as I stated I see both arguments in the Bible and don't know which one is right ...



YET!

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by Incarnated


Adam and Eve arived onto a planet already peopled. The bible never said Adam and Eve where the first people, only the first perfected people,

Adam is clearly referred to as the first man here:
(1 Corinthians 15:44-45) . . .. 45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.. . .

It does not say, "first perfected man " as you stated. Adam is also described as being made out of the dust of the ground...not arriving from some other planet.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by Sparky63]

Aduma means "Mankind". Chava/Eve means "Life-Giver".

If you look at the original languages, you will find all of the names in the bible have meanings that will unlock the stories for you.

If you read the original languages, you will find that they were not spoken with punctuation but in "tenses".

Over 70 percent of the bible is currently playing out right now.

Here are some more examples on names to use in context.

Hable/Able = Vain/Haughty
Khan/Cain = Spear/Sword/Lance
Lamech= White
Noack/Noah = Rest
Shem = Name
Yawfith/Japeth = Expansion
Cham/Ham = Hot of habitat
Nebuchadnezzar = Hebrew look after my chiefest son
Babylon = Confusion
Moses = Drawn Out
Aaron = Exalted/Lucifer
Miriam from eMitzraim = Egypt/Mary
Galilee = Heathen Circle
Jerusalem= Founded Peaceful
Sedom = Burnt
Amorrah = A ruined Heap
Yahweh/Jehovah = Self existent
Jesus = Self existent is salvation
Yoseph/Joseph = Let him add
David/Dood = Loved
John = Beloved
Philip = Fond of horses
Saul = Asked
Paul = Little
Yisrael = He will rule as God
Michael = Who is like God
Gabriel = Man of God


Learn what the names mean, insert them where you see the plain name, and the story will begin living. Until then, why wouldn't people hate on it (the bible).

"SEBASTIAN.....CALL OUT MY NAME".....and off on Falcors back we fly, big stupid looking dogfish, I still love him.

Peace

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Or you could realize that the Bible has two different creations of men and women. The first creates "men and women". The second creates Adam, from whom Eve was later created.

There were men and women in the world before Adam and Eve. Adam was just the first one in covenant with the Hebrew god. Ya gotta remember, the Old Testament is tribal mythology.

Oh right, I keep forgetting that the solid truth, the infallable word of the lord, changes depending on the day, the point you want to make, the point you want to defend, and whatever other reasons there are that Christians have come up with so many different ways of interpreting the same story that is so obviously true.