Shoes thrown at Bush on Iraq trip

Hmmm, this may be nothing but heresay, but "supposedly" this guy got the numbers put on him and is getting the standard roughing up.

Will wait to see if this can be validated before jumping to any conclusions.

Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

www.roadstoiraq.com...


[edit on 15-12-2008 by DimensionalDetective]

Sorry wrong thread...

[edit on 15-12-2008 by TrustMeIKnow]

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Hmmm, this may be nothing but heresay, but "supposedly" this guy got the numbers put on him and is getting the standard roughing up.

Will wait to see if this can be validated before jumping to any conclusions.

Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

www.roadstoiraq.com...

That's horrible! I knew they were going to beat the snot out of them by the way they forced the cameraman to immediately turn off his camera.

Edit: His screaming wasn't exactly a small hint either.

[edit on 12/15/08 by Yoda411]

reply to post by St Udio

If only those days would have changed more than the height of Skirts and the Vietnam war eh... soo near yet so far, barefooted brother!

reply to post by Sonya610

Hopefully he will not be made a scapegoat out of.

Had not seen his Nephew will look in a mo, is funny, but tragic eh.

I know one thing I don't think he will ever get a Visa to the USA now!

reply to post by dgtempe


I didn't know that he had lost his family like that.

That is tragic dgtempe.

And Bush saying

He wanted some attention

No he wanted to vent his internalised anger and grief, and he will still be in grief usually takes about 3 yrs.

One of the recognised stages psychologically that people go through, as a natural human response after denial is Anger.

He was faced with the "Face" of the the reason for his anger venting his pain, anger and frustration.

And this leads on to the reasoning of my reply here:

reply to post by Blaine91555

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I have a feeling that as I go through this thread, I will learn a lot about people who post here. Violent people are part of the problem, not the solution.

Indeed this is so, but there are reasons for peoples feelings.

And In a way I find it interesting, this is a bit like the Impeachment charges against Cheney.

It gives room for vent, but is a empty attack, has no substance or real effect on the victim.

I feel that many here may say what they are now, because they know he is safe and ok.

They Just want to finish the connection with him as outlined by the shoe thrower.

To gain their power back from a man who changed the world, all of our lives, made them more dangerous, who our fellow countrymen are dying for.

Whilst we all know it has been proven the reasons he gave for the war, and death of the Iraqis and Americans, and Japanese, and Missionairies, and British, and Australian, and Polish, and Canadian, etc etc

Was a Lie, and based on Oil and lining the pockets of his friends and family.

They feel safe to say these things as it never happened.

However I do think if he would have been Assasinated and Killed many who post so viruntly now would be more muted in their response.

Why so Blaine?

Because they are angry at him, because they care about the Death and Pain of soo many human beings, on the direction of this man his orders.

They Care.
They Feel.
As they would even if an adversary was killed.

The Non Event has a allowed a lot of our imaginations to create the image of what we "Fantasise" we would have liked to have happened.

It has allowed a safe expression of those frustrations and angers, fears, which create fantasies.
Even allowed some to regain some of the power back, from this mass murderer and world changer in a safe and non violent way.

If one man throwing some shoes at Bush and going him no harm at all has allowed that much pent up stress to be articulated and therefore changed, released to an extent.

Well Good!

Because one of the worst forms of violence that you soo hate is internalised Anger and Violence. It breaks people and families.

Personally I have found this event as described cathartic, and I really doubt if many who say "Use a Bomb" or "Insert Object of Choice" would really go out of their way to hurt another human being.

NEVER MIND DIRECT SLAUGHTER in 2 COUNTRIES AND on THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

If Bush reads about this Iraqi Mans Family, I bet he will be as smug, because that is what pyschopaths do, they DONT CARE, or FEEL for anything except themselves.

So as I posted above this is in my opinion an Funny event, but also has much deeper psychological undertones, both individually and nation wise and collectively.

Oh by the way.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I can empathize with that man, but I can not condone his methods. I understand him due to his culture, but that does not excuse those posting who seem to love violence.

Is not the real problem?

Couldnt we say we have learnt a lot about yourself from that too?

Do you see the Dichotomy?

Us and Them?

I wont hurt you but you are different?

Just bringing it home to you Blaine....

Hey Friend Truly I totally agree with nearly 99% of what you post on ATS , and always stop and read them, when i have the same weakness I point out above, just skipping certain members based on previous experience.

I have labelled them too, but not whole nations of them.

So to close just to say that you are right in the thrust that Violence breads violence, the cycles, and as pointed out by dgtempe in the beginning of this post, this guys Family were killed by Bush's orders, even if indirectly.

So the event has proven you right, in your statement, but you don't seem to see the casual relationships in this event in relation to that.

Sticky problem eh.

And its why too yesterday in Afghanistan a 13 yr old girl was a suicide bomber that killed 4 Members of the UK forces.

Her Hatred and labelling of "us" and "Them" , caused by the violence visited on her family by the occupation bombings, with of course brainwashing

I bet today in Northern UK a large part of a town all feel very angry at the Afghan Refuges in Britain..... when does it stop eh.

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 15-12-2008 by MischeviousElf]

seriously though how funny would it have been if Bush had caught the shoe and threw it back at him.

On a different note if I was obama I wouldnt really like my chances seeing how slow the response of the secret service was.

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Hmmm, this may be nothing but heresay, but "supposedly" this guy got the numbers put on him and is getting the standard roughing up.

Will wait to see if this can be validated before jumping to any conclusions.

Urgent, just reported: Al-Zaidi in U.S. run Camp Cropper prison

Iraqi TV al-Sharqiya just reported on the news that AL-Zaidi is transferred to Camp Cropper prison [the Airport prison, managed by the American forces].

The TV Channel announced that Al-Zaidi is in a difficult condition, with broken ribs and signs of tortures on his thighs. Also he can not move his right arm.

www.roadstoiraq.com...


[edit on 15-12-2008 by DimensionalDetective]

Wow, that just ruined my day. I cant even begin to imagine what that man is going through right now.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I do tend to go overboard on my Pacifism at times. I understand but at times like this thread we learn about ourselves. When we see an object hurled at someones head that we don't like, do we root for it to hit them or are we appalled at the violent act?

I have no love for Bush or the War but at the same time I have no love for anyone who would do violence towards Bush or any other person. The person who throws the shoe and the Terrorist who throws the bomb are the same person with different motivation.

Had he spoken about his feeling to the other Press who were there he would have had a much better impact than he did by throwing shoes. He gave up his credibility in doing so.

I think its time we faced our violent nature as a species head on and stop making excuses for it. I'm not foolish enough to believe that will ever happen but this was one of those days that I'm just sick of all the violent behavior and actions, as well as everyone justifying the violence for whatever reason.

When we start acting like our enemies, we become them.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
I can empathize with that man, but I can not condone his methods. I understand him due to his culture, but that does not excuse those posting who seem to love violence.

Wow...throwing shoes (and missing) is violence in your world? Where do you live? Sounds like a nice place.

For a moment. Hypothetically speaking; imagine if it were Bill Clinton instead of Bush at the press conference. He would have gotten an Iraqi woman journalist taking off her bra and panties and throwing them at him.

Seriously though. Remember the part where you see the bodyguards swarming after the shoe-thrower plus some extra bodyguards going after the cameraman, saying to "turn off the camera!"? Those were Iraqi guards giving that order. Not the US Secret Service. They were to busy subduing the shoe-thrower to worry about cameras taking pictures.

That is not OK! I am not a bush lover, but nobody should be allowed to disrespect our country and our president like that, under ANY condidtion. I think he should stay in jail for the MAX you can for assult and what ever they can charge him with.

Originally posted by xbranscombex

Originally posted by jerico65
Who throws shoes? Honestly, you fight like a woman!!

Sorry, someone had to say it.

The throwing of a shoe in Iraq is like spitting in the face of someone in North America.

You have to take shoes off before entering a mosque.

Yeah, and your point is.....? You also have to take your shoes off before entering homes in Japan. This is not a depiction unique to Iraq, Arabs, or Muslims for that matter.

LOL on another note, President Bush has some skills. Look at that weave, it must come from his Baseball days. The shoe thrower was the victim of an Insurgent kidnapping and torture, so he obviously isn't completely with it anymore. Not to mention how those that first jumped onto him were other Iraqis, and they kept apologizing for it, and saying: "He doesn't represent the Iraqi People".

Also, as an American, regardless of my political views, I despise ANY foreign force or entity who would attack my leader. You attack the leader of America, you attack America, bottom line.

This is exactly why I can't be a policeman or secret service agent. I'd have shot that POS right through the head.

For you idiots, he wasn't just disrespecting Bush, he was disrespecting the President of the United States.

I'm ashamed of many of the comments here. I'm ashamed for you.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Actions speak louder than words I don't think anybody would care if yet another disgruntled citizen of planet earth expressed their distaste for Bush with yet more rhetoric. We would not be reading about this story if he had just spoken to his fellow journalists about what a jerk Bush is.

Lets face it, the governments of the world ignore the little people until acts like this happened. We can peaceful protest our butts off and they'll just ignore it until we go away. But when we start encroaching into these people's comfort zones, they start to think, oh hey, maybe we better listen to these people.

It is unfortunate that the only way to get attention or properly show anger is to throw a shoe upside someones head. But I really believe that as a president, if you have angered people to the point where they will throw shoes at you, you have done something seriously wrong.

Whether or not this is mature or justified is not the point, the point here is to demonstrate to the whole world the seething anger this man (representing millions) feel towards George Bush, that's something you just cant achieve through peaceful means.

Originally posted by dooper
For you idiots, he wasn't just disrespecting Bush, he was disrespecting the President of the United States.

And if it had of been Obama that had of been the target you would have cheered like hell. Ive read your thread trashing Obama.www.abovetopsecret.com... Like most ideologically constipated you don't really respect the office of the President unless it is held by a conservative.

Hypocrite!!

Have you read this??

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 15-12-2008 by whaaa]

The thing that bothers me the most about this incident was the very slow response of the Secret Service. There is no way that second shoe should have been thrown without an agent standing in front of Bush.

I foresee several agents being asked if they had ever considered early retirement.

Originally posted by Yoda411
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about we all find our worst, smelliest old grungy show and mail it to the Whitehouse

Start this protest today by mailing a stinky shoe to:

The White House
Attn: President Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Imagine the shoes showing up at the white house. A huge smelly pile of dissatisfaction. Please participate. Let our voice be heard across the world.

...

[edit on 16-12-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by dooper
For you idiots, he wasn't just disrespecting Bush, he was disrespecting the President of the United States.

Outgoing Lame Duck.

Respect is earned not given automatically... even for a president


But it is interesting how slow the SS responded... he got off two shoes before they came from the back door...

Maybe an outgoing lame duck doesn't get the same coverage anymore?

I always wondered why they were the "Secret" Service anyway.


...

[edit on 16-12-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by dooper


Bush deserves all the disrespect in the world.