9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Why use Icke as an example of the truthers?

The same reason Jthomas used this article.
It's a disinformation tactic.
Make one person look like a looney, then associate all other people who have a similiar belief as looneys also.

Same reason he says things like, "The burden of proof remains on your shoulders, my friend, and we're still waiting."
After multiple holes have been poked in the official story, and the NIST "experts" have even been forced to revise their reports due to the work of a highschool teacher.
He also claims there is no official story, I guess NIST doesn't exist according to him.

The simple answer to your question rapinbatsisaltherage, is disinformation tactics. Try facing him with evidence he can not refute, as many of us have, and he will resort to comments like:

"nukes that brought the towers down or the invisible aircraft or the laser-destructo-beam or the hologram aircraft or the forward-spraying fuel or the "pod" or the missile that was fired a nanosecond before impact from the aforementioned invisible plane or the remote-control (invisible/hologrammed) aircraft"

Just one example of how people using disinformation tactics conduct themselves.

CIA, Mossad and the Saudis.

Oil, reconstruction contracts, political influence and power.

They orchestrated the holocaust and definitely thought they could pull this one off as well. Problem is that they robbed so many people and they have not conveniently forgotten this and can see it happening all over again.

Cheers

Originally posted by ashamedamerican

Same reason he says things like, "The burden of proof remains on your shoulders, my friend, and we're still waiting."

Yes, entirely. You are the ones making the claims, aren't you?

After multiple holes have been poked in the official story, and the NIST "experts" have even been forced to revise their reports due to the work of a highschool teacher. He also claims there is no official story, I guess NIST doesn't exist according to him.

First, you forgot that the NIST investigation was made up of a majority of independent, non-government, structural engineers, forensic scientists, chemists, physicists, and architects who signed their names to the reports

Second, you completely ignored that the evidence, whose existence 9/11 truthers must avoid at all costs, came from hundreds of independent sources never in the control of your magical, all-powerful, "government" to begin with.

Third, you ignore that the evidence and methodology of the NIST investigations is fully transparent to the entire world for criticism, affirmation, correction, or refutation, including the hundreds of thousands of professionals world-wide in the relevant fields.

Fourth, the 9/11 Truth Movement is forced to rely on a handful of so-called engineers whose claims against the findings of the NIST investigations amounts to nothing more than claims, have either been debunked or shown to be irrelevant, and which have never refuted the findings and conclusions in any way.

Fifth, as you illustrate, the 9/11 Truth Movement is forced to use the canard of the "official story" to hide the fact that the majority of the evidence is independent of the government or whatever the government says about it.

So, yes, it's a free country and you are free to attempt to shift the burden of proof for your claims all you want. Maybe one day, 9/11 truthers will understand why they haven't got anywhere in seven years and why the 9/11 Truth Movement is dying rapidly.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
I was busy working and believing the lies the MSM was feeding me. I'm paying closer attention now and am more aware that all is not what we were led to believe.

What a pity. Why did you believe you had to "rely" on the MSM to begin with and why do you believe they're all working in consort to deceive you?

Originally posted by jthomas
You don't have to learn from me. All you have to do is learn how to reason, look at the evidence, and show us how any of you have ever refuted the evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

You seem to want to include me with others, perhaps CIT? I'm not affiliated with anyone, just watching with an open mind balanced with the wisdom of not just going along with MSMs bought and paid for agenda that keeps people ignorant.

There's another example of why I say learning to reason will help you. We critical thinkers and real skeptics rely on questioning everything we read from whatever source and learn to use critical thinking to discriminate between nonsense and reality.

For example, we understand why claims of the existence of a monolithic MSM media and government do not comport with reality. That is why we question illogical notions which are at the heart of all conspiracy movements such as the 9/11 Truth Movement.

It is also why we reject your insult to all Americans that you think we are dumb so that there can exist an "agenda that keeps people ignorant."

Your own ability to freely express your views and learn from others on the Internet should have disabused you of such notions long ago.

Originally posted by jthomas
We critical thinkers and real skeptics rely on questioning everything we read from whatever source and learn to use critical thinking to discriminate between nonsense and reality.

Great!

Given that, I'll ask you to explain why WTC 7 fell with the same acceleration as gravity (freefall) for 2.25 seconds. NIST have published this in their final report.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by jthomas
We critical thinkers and real skeptics rely on questioning everything we read from whatever source and learn to use critical thinking to discriminate between nonsense and reality.

Great!

Given that, I'll ask you to explain why WTC 7 fell with the same acceleration as gravity (freefall) for 2.25 seconds. NIST have published this in their final report.

Do you have a point?

You do know how long it took WTC 7 to fall in its entirety, don't you?

Originally posted by jthomas
Do you have a point?
You do know how long it took WTC 7 to fall in its entirety, don't you?

Of course I have a point, jthomas. The point is that despite all of your critical thinking and detailed analysis, you can not explain why NIST confirmed that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration for 2.25 seconds.

That's quite a problem for you critical thinkers, jthomas. How does a building, that allegedly collapsed from one buckling column (79) provide NO resistance to the collapse for 2.25 seconds?

I don't expect an answer from you. I do expect handwaving and avoidance to sidestep the question being asked. It's a tough question to think about critically, isn't it?

Have the final word. I'm not contributing any more points for you in this thread.

posted by SPreston
Yes indeed. The disinformation and fakery of jthomas is just as good as the 'original' FBI/Defense Dept disinformation and fakery 'still images'. But consider this; since jthomas is an insider, perhaps he saw the original videos and 'original still images' before all the fakery and alterations and he is trying to hustle us with his recollection of what he remembered on them. Perhaps jthomas is the graphics artist who got the date/time wrong by 32 hours.

posted by jthomas
Now, the top image in my avatar, which you so kindly enlarged,

Congratulations jthomas. At least you got the size of the alleged 757 commercial aircraft closer to accurate this time. Much better than the original teensy little aircraft which the graphics artist tried to make look like a missile. Are you sure the original is not your work?



We are starting to like you jthomas. You have been a major contributer to the complete collapse of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY. You are a trooper.




[edit on 12/16/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by jthomas
Do you have a point?
You do know how long it took WTC 7 to fall in its entirety, don't you?

Of course I have a point, jthomas. The point is that despite all of your critical thinking and detailed analysis, you can not explain why NIST confirmed that WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration for 2.25 seconds.

You haven't told us what that has to do with anything and what there is to explain. I'll ask again: what is your point? Why should we be concerned if there was 2.25 seconds of free fall???

That's quite a problem for you critical thinkers, jthomas. How does a building, that allegedly collapsed from one buckling column (79) provide NO resistance to the collapse for 2.25 seconds?

You have given NO reason why that is important or relevant. If you can figure out a reason let us know, otherwise we'll just stick to the fact that it took 14.8 seconds for the entire collapse of WTC 7 to transpire.

I don't expect an answer from you. I do expect handwaving and avoidance to sidestep the question being asked. It's a tough question to think about critically, isn't it?

No, it's not tough at all. It's just that you can't explain its relevance to anything and why anybody should even think about it. You have given me NO reason to understand why it should be explained despite me asking you of what relevance it is.

Have the final word. I'm not contributing any more points for you in this thread.

Look, you brought it up and I am asking you to explain what relevance it has. I'd like to know. Tell us of what relevance 2.25 seconds of free fall is if you actually think it has any relevance.

Originally posted by SPreston

Congratulations jthomas. At least you got the size of the alleged 757 commercial aircraft closer to accurate this time. Much better than the original teensy little aircraft which the graphics artist tried to make look like a missile. Are you sure the original is not your work?

Yes, I followed the description given us by Rob Balsamo and Craig Ranke. You see in the top image a clip from Rob Balsamo's latest animation a depiction of what the pilots of the "mystery flyover jet" would have seen as the jet started its climb to fly over the Pentagon.

Using that data and Craig Ranke's description I added as accurately as I could, being faithful to Balsamo's and Ranke's account, of what the "mystery flyover jet" would have looked from the Pentagon security camera video in scale, position, and timing.



You'll note, as everyone does, that what ALL of those people around the Pentagon, in the parking lots, on the freeways, roads, and on the bridges, would have seen and heard would have been quite striking and LOUD.

But lo, there never was a jet, and no jet showed up anywhere, no one saw fly over and away from the Pentagon, or heard one, or reported one, and none showed up on that lowly security camera video that you now claimed "must have been erased."

Quel domage, mon ami.

We are starting to like you jthomas. You have been a major contributer to the complete collapse of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY. You are a trooper.

Well, I know you are celebrating from the revelation today that the flight path generated by the analysis of the raw flight data recorder file done by Undertow of the Pilots for 911 Truth has been verified as true by the recent release of the FAA radar data.

I'll have to give you that.

Originally posted by jthomas

What a pity. Why did you believe you had to "rely" on the MSM to begin with and why do you believe they're all working in consort to deceive you?

No need to pity me. I don't "rely" on the MSM, and didn't say that I ever had. Those are your words. And "they're all working in consort to deceive you" are your words too.

We critical thinkers and real skeptics rely on questioning everything we read from whatever source and learn to use critical thinking to discriminate between nonsense and reality.

What is the Pentagons official word on the guard shack videos then?

It is also why we reject your insult to all Americans that you think we are dumb so that there can exist an "agenda that keeps people ignorant."

You contradict yourself here by first calling me out for believing the MSM, then pretending insult when it fits your agenda. Hypocrite. I don't think "we" (whom ever that means) "are dumb", those are your words once again.


Well I hope you, the "critical thinkers and real skeptics(that)rely on questioning everything we read from 'whatever' source and learn to use critical thinking" have investigated and debunked the guard shack videos. And if you have how did you come to validate said evidence as sound?

Thanks infinityoreilly

Was jthomas banned? Or maybe he's investigating the official word from the Pentagon on those guard shack videos.

Maybe someone else can set me straight about when and how these videos were released, and what official stands by this evidence as unaltered.

As I've posted before in the "757 hit the Pentagon" thread, the explosion looks edited. I've seen better editing in movies like "The Empire Strikes Back".

And then there's the time and date stamp problems. Pentagon doesn't keep their security camera clocks up to date and on time?

Where are you jthomas?

I don't expect straight answers from any of our resident "debunkers".