AWOL Cleveland soldier Andre Shepherd seeks asylum in Germany

reply to post by rcwj75

rcwj75. Partially you're right. But you know I heard few stories about people whose realized the truth behind the war and they ended with a bullet in their head. And they not got that from the enemy. They've found something nasty and they arrived home in a body bag. As I remember there was a thread about these soldiers too; here at ATS. So, you may label him as a coward who fled, but maybe he heard the same stories and decided. And in this case, this was the right decision.

Bravery is needed to face against the enemy, which is really existing. But greater bravery is needed to take down your weapon, when you realize there are no enemy that against you're fighting, just lies that are pushing you. So, I'm still agreeing with the soldier.

Maybe if I would be in his place, for my luck, I'm already discharged and I'm avoided this hell, but maybe I would do the same in this sort of situation. I'm not willing to kill for someone, who lied to me and I'm not willing to kill civilians, because someone wants a small 0.5% stock rise on the market and wants to fill his pocket with money that on your, your comrades and other civilian's blood is drying.

This is about moral values.

PammyK. You made your oath, I've made mine. But the difference between you and me, I was able to take up questions and not followed orders blindly. Following orders blindly is one of the foolish thing what you may do and if you following orders blindly, you may make actions what you'll regret for a life time. And I can tell you, if you do that, the almighty president and the congress is not going to say thanks for your services, nothing. You're just a puppet, who is doing what they want.

You know what? If someone want to create wars, i.e the president, take his pretty ass into a Hornet and send him to over the gulf in the very first round if he really wants that war. He will change his mind in the first AA crossfire, that's for sure. It's really easy to play war from behind a desk and being really smart. But it's quite different on the battlefield. Many people joined this war, because they believed in something. Believed in lies. If you want to throw away your child or your life for a lie, do it. I'm not willing to do that.

Do you know whose are the real cowards in this whole war? Not this single soldier. The U.S. President, the whole congress and everyone whose are started and supporting this war from behind a desk. Now, they're COWARDS! with big capital letters. If they want their war, go into the first line. Be a man guys. They'll change your mind.

OldMedic. I don't care about your Jewish phantasmagoria. They're one of the reasons why these wars are actually happening on the middle east. Americans shouldn't die for Israel. Period.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Sheridan]

He was a helicopter repair man, i doubt he did it for fear of being killed.
I also dont agree with those saying he was an adult and knew what he signed up for. Many people sign up for the military believing in it, but find over their service that it is nothing but a tool for spreading violence and terror to other people, and at that point realize it is something they can no longer be a part of. He is hardly putting his fellows at risk by his desertion as there is no shortage of helicopter repair techs that i know of, and its not like hes leaving a battle squadron short a gunner, or a medic. He made his own decision based on variables none of us know, but as any good american, you are all so quick to point your fingers and make assumptions as if YOU are reliable sources of knowledge about anything, when in fact, most americans know nothing other than the garbage spewed on the news, and read at most 1 or 2 books a year, if that. We all know what they say bout assumptions, but thats obviously the only way some people know to make themselves feel secure in their empty soulless lives.

sadchild01, you call me "brainwashed american".

Really, and how do you judge that?

I left the US Army, went to college and earned my B.A., my M.A. and eventually my Ed.D. I have lived in Germany, Great Britain, Viet Nam, Korea, Panama, Mexico and of course in the USA.

I am also a Canadian citizen.

I have known literally thousands of American Soldiers, and have never known any that wanted to murder anyone. In fact, most got sick when they ad to kill someone. In no case did the murder anyone, they fought back against people trying to kill them.

You throw around terms like "murder", "Brainwashed", yet you do not present any facts, you present no evidence to support your case and you make nothing but baseless charges.

Are you afraid to debate someone that has actually "been there and done that"? Or are you some someone that only knows what his silly friends have told him, and believes everything bad about the US?

Another coward, afraid to stand up for what he claims to believe.?

To the guy that claims he has heard about soldiers being killed by their own troops for turning against the war.

Cite your sources, you son of a bitch. Give some examples of this happeniing, dates, places, the soldier killed, etc.

If you can't, you are blowing smoke (or more likely making it up).

You've heard - where did you hear this? When? What is the sourvce of this information?

Post it here, or admit you are a liar.

Originally posted by pexx421
He was a helicopter repair man, i doubt he did it for fear of being killed.

Really? Ever been mortared?

Originally posted by pexx421
He is hardly putting his fellows at risk by his desertion as there is no shortage of helicopter repair techs that i know of, and its not like hes leaving a battle squadron short a gunner, or a medic.

Like you said, you don't know how the Army is staffed for Helicopter maintenance. Chances are, he just left his shop one man short, so the others will get to work harder to pick up the slack.

I didnt say i dont know how the army is staffed for helicopter repair techs, i said i had heard of no shortage. I actually went into the army as a helicopter repair tech, spend 6 years in the army and then another 6 in the air force as a medic. And i can say, with experience, that trying to protest the actions of our government and military from within the system is a thankless and hopeless job, even when you present the truth. No one wants to hear truth, they want to hear baseless propaganda that makes them feel good about doing their job, just as a wife wants to hear she is looking better than ever whether it is the truth or not. And why is it that people who protest what is going on are disparaged for not taking the jail and abuse road?? where is it written that brave people must suffer from humiliation and abuse for their beliefs, when it has been shown how inneffective this approach is?? Are they to sacrifice years of their life in prison for their beliefs when it is not likely to make any difference?? Perhaps it is time to look for alternative ways to stand up for what you believe in, other than being tazed, arrested, and brutalized and raped in prisons. Ways that might be more effective.

reply to post by OldMedic


man ,do you sound like a nazi soldier of the third reich , who says that Germany did not commit genocide ....

the onus of proving what you claim is on you ... go prove it to the UNHRC and the Hague international court . that the Iraq war is not a war crime of genocide and destruction against humanity

Are you afraid to debate someone that has actually "been there and done that"? Or are you some someone that only knows what his silly friends have told him, and believes everything bad about the US?

i would get similiar responses from nazi ,imperial british or even soviet soldiers too ...
so , when a kettle is black , its black , it cannot be called white

[edit on 12-12-2008 by sadchild01]

reply to post by OldMedic
Give um hell!!!!! I am a former medic myself, and people who have not served just don't know. I was never in a war, only the Cold War, and was stationed in Germany from 1981-1983. When you join, you do your frigin job. I don't agree with the Bush Administration, but you must do your job for your fellow soliders if not for anyone else! Support the troops for Gods sake, you don't have to support the war that is what being an Americian is all about.

reply to post by OldMedic

What's the problem Medic? Don't you like when someone is telling the truth? It was even broadcasted on one of the channels. Hell, you're an adult big guy, you may do your very own investigation. Even if I would provide the source, you wouldn't believe it, because there is 90% chance that you're brainwashed or wouldn't believe it, because you already decided. So, I'm giving you a chance to find it by yourself. It's on the net. Easy to find. Search after it if you really want to know the truth. Here is a little help. One of them was a young woman, who was shot into the head in her office at night. If you find her, you'll find the rest. Not so many military woman died in Iraq, so you can find her. Even her parents told this in a report, that their daughter might found something and that was the reason she needed to die, but they've been silenced in the media very quickly (It's been around one, max three years ago and not she was the only one. Maybe others are also remembering this case too.).

You may draw out these poor women. This is another cover up.
www.truthout.org...

Additional cover ups about appareant "suicides"
dearkitty.blogsome.com...

If you want to know what the truth is, you must search it. I gave you the hints and help to reduce the search parameters.

Because it's not in the mainstream media, it's not meaning these things are not existing.

PammyK. I'm a former fighter pilot and I'm not going to support the death of the U.S. or other int. troopers, because they're fighting for a lie. Sorry. If you're supporting them, you're supporting their death. I'm not willing to do that.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Sheridan]

Do your job for your fellow soldiers, even if you dont support the military's actions?? I would imagine that this is another example of how soldiers in the third reich might have thought as well. How can you support ANYONE when you believe they may be killing innocent people?? Honestly, if i walked in on my best friend or brother killing or raping an innocent person, i would most likely kill my friend or brother myself. To stand idly by as you are part of a group that is doing something so extremely against your morals IS a result of brainwashing, and shows the mindset of our political system. Leaving, sabotaging, and yes, even KILLING is an appropriate response or form of protest when other peoples innocent lives are on the line, just as i would kill a burglar that came into my house to harm my family.
In our country we are programmed to just stand by while our leaders do murder in the name of profit, or worse, to participate, in the name of nationalism or patriotism, and if we disagree we are told to think about it in jail. What kind of great american heroism is that? So sit in jail you puppets, or force that ideology on others of your ilk. I spent 12 years in the service, and finally resigned after watching one too many propaganda films put on by my unit that demonized the enemy and glorified in pictures of dead iraqi's strewn about a street, as others in my group laughed and joked about it, i saw them as they really are.......humans.....fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters and children, just like all those around me.

reply to post by jerico65


So you are a military type = someone who has made the conscious decision either through economic desperation, blood lust, or cultural brainwashing to murder strangers without question for money. You must be so proud.
I & WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS. FACT!

Originally posted by sadchild01
the onus of proving what you claim is on you ... go prove it to the UNHRC and the Hague international court . that the Iraq war is not a war crime of genocide and destruction against humanity

My, you are a sadchild, aren't you?

If the US was committing genocide in Iraq, why are we wasting time building schools and hospitals?

Originally posted by sensfan
You say a soldier deserting is brave? I call it cowardly. The brave soldiers are still the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan on the front lines doing their job because that's what they signed up to do. Joining the military is not something one can do and then say later when the going get's tough that they really didn't think it would be like this, and desert.

Generally speaking, you are absolutely correct, but in this war, it is not that simple, and you know it.

I commend that soldier for peacefully revolting against the fabrication machine.

[edit on 12/13/2008 by prototism]