'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim

reply to post by AshleyD


Matthew or Luke?

Is multiple choice too hard for you?

Post Count: 3,950

Goodness, it seems like you enjoy running your mouth on other topics?

Why not picking a nativity story you ACTUALLY believe in while enthusiastically engaging in a thread ON THE TOPIC?

You certainly seem to have no problem with espousing an opinion when not challenged with reality.

Matthew or Luke Princess. It aint rocket science.

Matthew or Luke?

You challenging me to a debate now is like a man on the floor under my sword asking for do-overs.

Matthew or Luke or shut the hell up.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Article11
Yes, there's a big chance I do not believe you are a Saint ordained by God.

Oh! So it's a rhetorical question then. Glad you already knew the answer and expected you'd not accept it.

But, I'd LOVE to hear your answer.

So you ARE a Saint ordained by God, right?

Awesome.

Benefits?

'Cause, you know, I'm looking at stuff, you know, just wondering. What's God's health plan and 401(k) match?

Any chance if I get ordained by God, he can spell out the whole "for" part when I go on message boards? It just bugs me. You know. Kids today.

Hate to text it in! After all, I'd be a SAINT!

reply to post by Article11


Oh my goodness. You're a feisty little one aren't you. You sure did return in a bad mood. Sorry to see you turn down the debate challenge.

Matthew or Luke?

Both.

The thing is, although you seem to think you're privy to some sort of skeptical revelation regarding Matthew and Luke, you're not bringing up anything new. Epic yawn factor to say the least.

Gospel Harmonization.
The Census.
Answering Skeptic's Arguments about the Nativity.

Truly, what you're saying has long since been known and refuted. Apologists even have a specified term for it. It is as I say above, 'Gospel Harmonization.'

Anyways, it's pretty obvious by seeing this and other encounters of yours on the board that you are some sort of troll so this should be the end of our discourse. Feel free to carry on the conversation with yourself. You're not bringing up an argument that hasn't been answered many times before. But I will take you up on a formal debate if you change your mind. It would at least force me to do more work instead of taking the easy route and submitting a list of links.

Originally posted by Article11
...or shut the hell up.

LOL. Says the man who keeps replying to the same people, saying the same thing in his posts multiple times before they even responded. Toodles.

[edit on 12/20/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD

Matthew or Luke?

Both.

I'm so pleased to see you link to the www.christian-thinktank.com for proof you don't have a conundrum before you, and equally pleased to see you can't possibly put your rebuttal into words other than linking to the www.christian-thinktank.com.

Kudos good debater! So sorry you grow weary of linking to the www.christian-thinktank.com in response to people that confound you.

Guess that's why you and the www.christian-thinktank.com are so popular!

Just kidding. You aren't.

Originally posted by Article11
Kudos good debater!

Hey, you turned down the offer. I only work under formal pressure.

Oh, and say it a few more times. You should be able to boost ATS on the Google search engines for the term...

www.christian-thinktank.com
www.christian-thinktank.com
www.christian-thinktank.com
www.christian-thinktank.com

But you neglected poor little tektonics. Here. I'll help you out.

www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org

And you didn't even provide backlinks, you Google search ranking Scrooge, you.

Well I guess I have to give up on the hope you'll actually discuss the topic.

See ya!

[edit on 12/20/2008 by AshleyD]

Still thinking "Christian Conservative" which by the way is the definition of "both" and whatever else you like.

I understand you being slow to draw.

Never met anyone that actually read the New Testament, eh?

You can point to all the "Christian-ThinkTanks.COM" you like, but you can't resolve inspired words contradicting themselves without ADMITTING you aren't a literalist"Christian Conservative," can you?

Know why? None of you are.

Read my signature and have a nice day Pharisee.

Both.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Here. I'll help you out.

Thanks for the help. For a minute there I thought that crack addict firing a flare across the street was proof I was the Son of God, but I happen to know my Dad and he aint.

Can Jesus say the same?

And can you put your Jesus Junction websites in YOUR OWN WORDS or not?

Guess not.



[edit on 20-12-2008 by Article11]

One in twelve chance there AshleyD.

Jesus born in June or not.

You came here.

You DO remember the topic don't you?

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Article11

 

Originally posted by Article11
...or shut the hell up.

LOL. Says the man who keeps replying to the same people, saying the same thing in his posts multiple times before they even responded. Toodles.

Ahahahahaha!
ROFL.

This MUST be the funniest the post -ever- on ATS.

Article11 is quoting himself and arguing with himself!!!!!!

Unbelievable.

Originally posted by Jinni
Ahahahahaha!
ROFL.

This MUST be the funniest the post -ever- on ATS.

Article11 is quoting himself and arguing with himself!!!!!!

Unbelievable.

I'm not AshelyD. Reading comprehension. Try it sometime. It's not nearly as fun as knee jerk Ha Ha's and LOL's and showing your IQ in emoticons, but really...

Try it. You'll find grown ups take you much more seriously Mr. Cartoon Cannibal. (Now THAT'S funny.)

reply to post by Article11


I'm not quite sure how someone could possibly think we're the same person either when our posts and opinions are polar opposite but I did just ask a staff member to check IP's if necessary and clear us. Not sure if that is what Jinni was implying but it should be obvious we are not remotely the same person.

As for June: If you read my first posts to this thread, it should become obvious I imply I don't support the date.

As for putting my arguments in my own words: It would help if you actually provided specific arguments to refute instead of simply asking 'Matthew or Luke.' You have to give me specifics if you want specifics in return.

Originally posted by AshleyD
As for putting my arguments in my own words: It would help if you actually provided specific arguments to refute instead of simply asking 'Matthew or Luke.' You have to give me specifics if you want specifics in return.

Will do. Sounds like a fun project to do instead of work tomorrow.

Have a nice Sunday.

Given the information on the thread, here's my agenda for the next few days:

December 22 - Celebrate Christ
December 23 - Celebbrate Christ
December 24 - Celebrate Christmas Eve
December 25 - Celebrate Christmas
December 26 - Celebrate Christ
etc.

Why? Well, it's in the Book:

"But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation always say, "The LORD be exalted!" - Psalm 40:16

"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!" - Philippians 4:4

Im cerebrating life, period, every day.

I think if Christ was standing here with us all....he would of celebrated the winter solstice, teaching others how to see the beauty in the order of all things and teaching others how to admire Gods workings.

I think its a bunch of bull when the Bible says...do not look for signs in the sky. Christ would of never been found without the following of the stars.

I dont feel Christ wanted worship or held reverence ever. He was humble and and said...my Father is greater then I.

So celebrate the 'life' that we have, celebrate the life that will burst forth after winter when spring comes are her path.

Just thoughts, each to their own,
LV

Originally posted by Locoman8

They put 2 and 2 together when Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus were all put together 2 years earlier than the star/comet of bethlehem. All of this occured in the constellation of Pisces which is the one that represents Israel.

On Saturday 20 Dec, on the cable TV 'History Channel'...

the researcher/astronomer retraced the position of the planets you mention together with the position of the Sun & moon...
and discovered that in 6BC , all of these heavenly bodies, with Jupiter in prominance were all within the visual field of the constellation "Aries"...

which he said was the ancient worlds astrological sign representing the
Hebrews/Judah national symbol.
i swear he said Aries, the Ram & not Pisces the fish.

it is a common understanding that the early Christians used the fish sign=pisces as a code between themselves...which coincided with the then new astrological Age of Pisces.


this researcher/astronomer calculated the sign-in-the-heaven reached its peal on 17 April 6 BC
* of course the 'Emmanuel' birth could come anytime afterward...
perhaps even 6 months later in October 6BC
* so the king-of-Israel sign in April could have coincided with the birth of Jesus' cousin John the Baptist...the 'forerunner' of the messiah,
* I find it very, very fortunate that when Herod's decree to kill all 2 year old Hebrews & Jews that John the Baptist family didn't need to flee to the boondocks/Egypt, just as the Mary-Joseph-Jesus family had to.

according to Stellarium

Originally posted by AshleyD

But you neglected poor little tektonics. Here. I'll help you out.

www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org
www.tektonics.org

Sorry I missed you yesterday. Had a hard time finding a parking place for the Goodyear Blimp.

Actually, your source here readily admits everything there is to know about the conflicting nativity stories.

A critical reading of the narratives tells us that the traditional Nativity is an anachronism.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And I doubt anyone would argue that either Matthew or Luke were eyewitnesses or reporting actual history. How could they be? They weren't even IN the stories, and both had such different accounts.

The "harmonization" efforts to correct discrepancies you linked borrows from this 'traditional' assumption...

Typically it is proposed that Luke had Mary as a main source, whereas Matthew had Joseph as a main source.

Which begs the question how could Mary and Joseph have had such divergent experiences and in such different times at the supposedly same birth?

No matter. I've seen a resurgence in more historical reporting of the "Christmas story" this season with reliably authoritative and devout modern theologians admitting it's manufactured pagan hybridization designed to 'answer the curiosity about the new religion of the times.'

Happy Birthday Mithra!

Case closed. Any discussion of the 'actual' birth of "Jesus" is conjuncture based on conjuncture. Or 'faith' based on fables if you prefer.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Article11]

reply to post by AshleyD




This is for those few that have a genuine interest,

this is for you, as promised;
p34 of
www.companion-bible.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.wordstudy.org...



[edit on 27-12-2008 by toasted]

[edit on 27-12-2008 by toasted]

reply to post by St Udio


The research I did was for 7bce, not 6bce. The ram may have represented the hebrews/judah, but Judah is simply 1 tribe of Israel. I said the fish of pisces represented ISRAEL, not Judah..... all 12 tribes. Either way, your argument with me still comes to the same conclusion.... Jesus born late summer/early fall. Good post though.

reply to post by saint4God


Earlier you mentioned the feast of ingathering and the feast of harvest as additional feasts outside of the 7 commanded feasts? Even thanksgiving? Well, here's a lesson in holy days for you:

Feast of Ingathering = 7 day feast of Tabernacles+the Last Great Day.

Feast of Harvest = Feast of Pentacost.

Thanksgiving was not commanded in the bible as a holy day feast but like chaunaka, is man-made to celebrate the glory of God, just in a different sense.

The 7 holy day feasts are as follows, and each represents a chapter in God's plan for mankind.... an important thing to have knowledge of.

Feast of Passover: For christians, represents the day Jesus was hung on the Cross and killed as our passover sacrifice for sin. We share in the last supper tradition of eating bread and drinking wine and washing of each other's feet.

Feast of Unleavened Bread: After accepting Christ as our passover Lamb, we must repent and keep sin from our lives. In this 7 day feast immediately after passover, we treat leaven/yeast as sin and remove any leaven or yeast product from the household and refrain from eating leavened bread. It is simply a metaphore for keeping sin out of our lives.

Feast of Pentacost: This day represents many things for christians. First it represents the day the New Testament Church started with the pouring of the Holy Spirit upon over 120 people as the opening chapters of Acts states. This also represents the spiritual firstfruits of God. Christ himself became the first of all humans to be resurrected to life. So you accept Christ as the passover lamb, repent and keep sin from your life, and seek the Holy Spirit to become a firstfruit of Christ. This is why Pentacost is known also by the feast of Harvest or feast of Firstfruits. It is celebrated 50 days after passover.

Feast of Trumpets: From this point on, the holy day feasts are symbolic for future events, to take place soon as the first 3 feasts represented what one must do before the return of Christ. Trumpets represent announcing imminent danger or arrival of Kings in Israel. Naturally this feast represents the Great Tribulation period when God actually gets involved in man's affairs on earth. This feast also represents the return of Christ with the blowing of the 7th trumpet.

Day of Atonement: The only feast day that you refrain from eating. In the new testament, this day is known as "the fast" which is properly used since you fast for 24 hours on this feast day. It represents the time when the cause of sin (satan) is bound up and absent from human affairs. Humans are able to gain a closeness to God and humble themselves in order to abolish their sinful nature. This is why the fasting is necessary... to realize how fragile our lives are and to give God the glory for giving life to such a fragile being.

Feast of Tabernacles: Represents the 1000 years of peace on earth following the return of Christ and the imprisonment of Satan. This period in the history of mankind shows us the reward for being faithful to God and following the ways of Christ. Those who endure to the end become kings and priests in the kingdom of God on earth. All who survive the tribulation that are still alive in the flesh will have the knowledge of God readily available to them. All will celebrate the feast of tabernacles to give glory to God and learn the true ways of God (zechariah 14:16). This feast lasts 7 days late summer/early fall..... many believe this is the time of the birth of Christ given that it's 6 months after passover, the supposed day John the baptist was born.

The Last Great Day: Immediately after the ingathering feast, is the Last Great Day, which represents the second resurrection, judgement, and the new heaven, new earth ordeal. It represents the time of paradise on earth when heaven literally falls on earth and God dwells in the holy city, New Jerusalem as it comes out of heaven. These final two feasts are celebrated by pilgrimaging to a paradise and giving praise to God. The members of the former Worldwide Church of God which are divided into the United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, etc. all pilgrimage to places like Jekyll Island, Georgia or the Texas Gulf Coast and spend 8 days in service, fellowship, and worship.

To summarize these feasts in a simple paragraph of God's ultimate plan for mankind:

Accept Christ as your passover lamb, repent and keep sin out of your life, seek the holy spirit in order to have part in the firstfruits of Christ or first resurrection. As the trumpets blast and tribulation begins, seek protection from God's wrath by accepting Christ if not already accepted. Christ returns and resurrects His saints. Satan is bound for 1000 years and those who survived tribulation will have oneness with God by humbly atoning themselves to Him. He is the provider of all life. The 1000 years come and those who become saints are given a kingship or priesthood over the inhabatants of the land for this peaceful time. Aftert the 1000 years and the final defeat of Satan, comes the 2nd resurrection and judgement... some to everlasting life, few to a 2nd death. Heaven and earth pass away and a new heaven and new earth are created. New Jerusalem falls from heaven to earth and God dwells forever with His people with Jesus at the throne. It is a paradise on earth.

The Holy Days mean so much more than celebrating the birth of an innocent baby. Also, Jews and early christians never even celebrated birthdays, including the birth of the messiah. It was a one time event that needed no further emphasis beyond the actual day of birth. We should now concentrate on the imminent return of Christ and His kingdom. That's what the Holy Days are all about. Those who want to know about the origins of these Holy Days, read Leviticus 23. God bless you all.