'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim

Has Bill O'Reilly weighed in on this yet? Does this change the idea the Christmas is only a Christian holiday? Or does the U.S. federal law trump the bible? How does this all fit in with the folks that hijacked this holiday and now insist that everyone in the United States celebrate it openly, whether they want to or not.

Originally posted by toasted
Grandma,

You are absolutely right. Our Lords birthday was never a scriptural holiday.

Which begs the question of why we have so many holidays that fake their legitimacy.

I suspect it'll continue to be overlooked as well.

There were festivals in the Bible celebrated by many including Jesus himself. He didn't remove himself from that culture, but rather pointed to the One who was truly a reason to celebrate during them.

Originally posted by AshleyD
There are so many times when Jesus is suspected to have actually been born that I really doubt a single month or season hasn't been speculated about.

Just on a side note, it would be thrilling to find out for absolute certain when Jesus was really born. That way Christians could get Christmas back, the world and us would still have the secular holiday of December 25th, the 'Christian Christmas tradition was stolen from paganism' argument would go away, and we could get back to the celebration of Christ's birth and not commercialism or secular imaginary symbols.

Yeah, I'm game for that. I'd rather have Christmas as a beach party anyway

reply to post by saint4God


Those festivals were called God's Holy Days and they are the only commanded days to celebrate in the bible. Even the apostles after the death of Christ celebrated the Holy Days. Christians celebrate them in a different manner than the Jews because Jesus fulfilled many of the symbolic things associated with these Holy Days, like the passover lamb being slaughtered and blood poured out on the altar. Christ was cricified on the passover and His blood spilled on the hill of Calvary... He was our passover lamb and christians should celebrate this Holy Day with the sharing of unleavened bread and red wine to signify the Last Supper and the flesh/blood of Christ. This along with the washing of each other's feet. After this Holy day are 7 days of unleavened bread signifying the removal of Sin from one's life. I'll get into this all more later but those are the first two Holy Day feasts that are found in Leviticus 23.

Originally posted by Locoman8
Those festivals were called God's Holy Days and they are the only commanded days to celebrate in the bible.

Only commanded in the New Testament perhaps. Thanksgiving looks like it is here:

"Celebrate the Feast of Harvest with the firstfruits of the crops you sow in your field. "Celebrate the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in your crops from the field." - Exodus 23:16

Christ celebrated a wedding feast that I don't see mentioned in the Old Testament.

"They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us."

All who were sitting in the Sanhedrin looked intently at Stephen, and they saw that his face was like the face of an angel." - Acts 6:13-15

"The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." - Galatians 2:13-16

I'm always comforted that modern 'problems' were solved two thousand years ago.

Here's some commanded rejoicing/celebrating without a date:

"Rejoice in the LORD and be glad, you righteous; sing, all you who are upright in heart!" - Psalm 32:11

"Let the righteous rejoice in the LORD and take refuge in him; let all the upright in heart praise him!" - Psalm 64:10

"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." - 1 Corinthians 10:31

"But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord." - Luke 1:13-15

After reading the whole Bible, I don't see any 'celebrating in the endzone' penalties, but many many messages about being thankful/grateful/glad in the gifts God has given to us. There is no gift greater than Christ for us, the gift of eternal life through him is worthy of celebratioin.

Merry Christ-mas

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by Article11


" Look it up. Council of Nicaea. "

Again, SO WHAT?!?!?!

You're confusing the supposed reason surrounding the celebrating with the actual date!

I don't give a rats patoot about the council of nicea with regards to the correct birth-date, it is totally irrelevant!

reply to post by toasted


LOL It's not just that- he is wrong with what he claims about the Nicaean Council. It had nothing to do with the canonization process. Its main mission was to solidify doctrine to protect against splits. They pretty much solidified nothing that wasn't already documented by the ante-Nicene church fathers centuries in advance.

He's wrong his claim that no historian recorded Jesus' execution as well. There are historical records documenting it. I had a long reply to him typed out earlier but just closed it down. Sometimes those circular debates just aren't worth it. lol

[edit on 12/17/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by saint4God


" There were festivals in the Bible celebrated by many including Jesus himself. He didn't remove himself from that culture, but rather pointed to the One who was truly a reason to celebrate during them. "

I know that, the "jews" are the only group who are celebrating the correct days. [ perhaps the 7th day adventists too ]

My point was that our Lords birthday was never a scriptual holiday! And that's been a theme throughout the Bible, that israel was constantly distracted by baal worship, and only stayed on the straight and narrow when they actually had a strong true leader, like Deborah. And once that good leader passed on another good for nothing would distract them yet again.

Fast forward 2,000 years and we're doing the same stupid things. We have our own idol worship, hollywood, rockstars, models etc, it is all idol worship.

We're still distracted by B.S. and we can't even stand up and demand from our so-called leaders that the correct days be celebrated, because we [ israel ] don't even know who we are any longer [ as was written ]. But the day is fast approaching when the false one will com in His name and fool the deceived.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by toasted]

reply to post by AshleyD



You're right, it is easy to get caught up and argue to infinity.

Anyways, FWIW; [ a list of the correct feasts [ holidays ] to be celebrated only good thru 2009 ]

threshingfloor.onevoicemm.net...

When I again revisit the scriptural evidence for Our Lords birthday, I'll post it here or u2u.

Originally posted by AshleyD
I had a long reply to him typed out earlier but just closed it down. Sometimes those circular debates just aren't worth it. lol

Or God himself must be your respected foe if He just erased your entire argument like that.

I prophesied in my head that you were full of it and an all-powerful God agreed and sent you incontrovertible proof you were wrong. Why do you not believe seeing God's will like that?

Matthew 13:13
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

The nativity stories are bunk and contradict even themselves. Which was it? Did Mary and Joseph go to Bethlehem for a Roman census or were they already residents of Bethlehem making the rest of the Gospels that refer to Jesus of Nazarene wrong? Only one version can be right? Matthew or Luke. One is a creative revisionist, or more likely both.

If Mary and Joseph really went for the Roman census then Herod had already been dead for decades since Rome didn't even occupy Judea prior, meaning Matthew completely made up the Massacre of the Innocents, which you also won't find in any actual historical accounts. That was Moses, not Jesus.

The fact is, the only canonized accounts of the nativity, not only contradict each other, but actual history, and were written IN RESPONSE to Emperor Augustus declaring HIMSELF the son of god as a result of seeing a comet in the night sky. The creators of the nativity stories also chose Bethlehem for their own night sky portend of Jesus' birth (which contradicts all historical accounts of the man from Nazarene ) in order to contrive it fit ancient Jewish prophecy.

Too bad it wasn't true, and Mathew and Luke didn't compare "divinely inspired" notes.

See how easy it is to post a long accurate argument when God is on your side? Wasn't difficult at all for me.

Have a nice day.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Article11]

Toasted, the answer you seek in your rat's patoot is that the question of the "correct birth date" is moot in and of itself.

As I just replied to AshleyD, the question is based an account that contradicts itself.

"Astronomers have calculated that Christmas should be in June, by charting the appearance of the 'Christmas star' which the Bible says led the three Wise Men to Jesus."

Right.

If you go so far as to accept Matthew's account of a Star in the East over Bethlehem, then you must accept that Luke is wrong as are all accounts of the Man from Nazareth.

The conundrum for you is thus: to prove a "correct" birth date for Jesus based on any PART of the Bible you therefore PROVE the rest of the Bible wrong by default.

Have fun with that. I am.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Article11]

Merry Christmas y'all, for those who are wondering why we celebrate Christ's birthday when we do, a bit of helpful history:

The real Saint Nicholas reflects back to Christ

If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ June 11th, amen. If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ every day, God bless you!

reply to post by saint4God


" If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ June 11th, amen. If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ every day, God bless you! "

What was that He said about man celebrating mans laws and not Gods laws?

He may be pleased we are thinking of Him , but I have doubts about His being pleased that we are celebrating days that were not part of Gods Law.

Isn't that like Him asking for apples, and us giving oranges instead?

[edit on 19-12-2008 by toasted]

Originally posted by saint4God
Merry Christmas y'all....

Do you ever engage in the actual discussion taking place or just punctuate legitimate debates with your vacuous nonsense?

Originally posted by Article11

Originally posted by saint4God
Merry Christmas y'all....

Do you ever engage in the actual discussion taking place or just punctuate legitimate debates with your vacuous nonsense?

There you go again!

There is a point to the post you have 'conveniently' cut out of your quote.

Can you tell us what it is?

C'mon don't be shy...

Originally posted by Jinni
There you go again!

There is a point to the post you have 'conveniently' cut out of your quote.

Can you tell us what it is?

C'mon don't be shy...

Long quotes are a violation of TaC. Had the self proclaimed Saint rendered a bit of fodder worth quoting, I would have.

Thanks for playing. What's your stand on "astronomers find new date for fake thing?"

Originally posted by Article11

Originally posted by Jinni
There you go again!

There is a point to the post you have 'conveniently' cut out of your quote.

Can you tell us what it is?

C'mon don't be shy...

Long quotes are a violation of TaC. Had the self proclaimed Saint rendered a bit of fodder worth quoting, I would have.

Thanks for playing. What's your stand on "astronomers find new date for fake thing?"

You didn't answer my question. Read my post three times.

Furthermore, why does he have 31170 points and you only 95. You seem to be very aware of T&Cs!!

Originally posted by Jinni

C'mon don't be shy...

Wait, was YOUR contribution to this tread on the birthday of Jesus that he was really some guy the Catholics worshipped that died December 6, AD 343.

Bravo.

Kudos.

Thanks for coming back.

Call me boy and send me some more sweets. That went over well last time.

Originally posted by Jinni

You didn't answer my question. Read my post three times.

Done. And though blinded by your on-topic brilliance, I feel I've met the challenge.

Furthermore, why does he have 31170 points and you only 95. You seem to be very aware of T&Cs!!

Spewing # is free. How many points must you have now? Huh?

Originally posted by Article11

Originally posted by saint4God
Merry Christmas y'all....

Do you ever engage in the actual discussion taking place or just punctuate legitimate debates with your vacuous nonsense?

Reading past the third word, you would've discovered the remainder of the post:

Originally posted by saint4God
for those who are wondering why we celebrate Christ's birthday when we do, a bit of helpful history:

The real Saint Nicholas reflects back to Christ

If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ June 11th, amen. If you want to celebrate the birth of Christ every day, God bless you!

Ah, my link doesn't copy/paste. Oh well, it's up there if anyone is interested.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by saint4God]