Why Does The Government Have Any Say In These Four Things?

Why does the government have any say in these four instances?

Prostitution
Drug Usage
Polygamy
Adult Pornography

I will now give positive reasons for why these should not be illegal.

Prostitution

I have never used a prostitute and in all truth i don't see the attraction. However it is clear they serve a need in society. Studies have shown that men especially who are unable to find a willing partner become violent. Not all men of course but some. Prostitution fixes this issue.

Legal prostitution could be regulated, reducing chances of STI's, increasing tax revenue and most importantly making sure the girls and guys used were of legal age and not being forced into it. Furthermore it would massively reduce the police resources used and free up prison spaces.

Any prostitute not working in a brothel or form their own home could immediately be picked up and prosecuted. Any unregistered brothel could be prosecuted and any unlicensed prostitute could be instantly prosecuted.

Drug Usage

Personally i have never used drugs (other than alcohol and caffeine). However i fail to see how the government has any right to tell me what i can put into my body. Legalizing drugs would again mean you could tax it as corporations would be able to produce drugs in larger quantities at cheaper prices. The drugs would be standardized meaning less overdoses and safer usage. They wouldn't be cut with rat poison, micro glass beads or any other chemical.

This would again free up spaces in prison and increase government revenue.

Polygamy

In an age where you can marry men and women freely i fail to see why we don't allow polygamy. I would never do this myself as one women is enough trouble . Still why is it illegal? The only reason i can think of is that certain religions say it is wrong. However Britain is a very secular society and our laws should not be dictated by religion.

If a man or woman can afford to look after and be happy with 3, 4 or 5 wives/husbands then i don't see why it should be illegal. Someone please give me a logical reason against this one. Love takes many forms.

Adult Pornography

Recently labour has decided that bondage and violent pornography should be illegal. I fail to see why though. They say that violent porn leads to violent crimes, but this doesn't seem to fit up with reality. Violent criminals watch this stuff because they are already thinking these thoughts. Some use it to further their fantasies but in the end they are the type of people who will always end up harming someone.

Obviously certain forms of pornography should be illegal and that's why i labeled this as adult pornography. Child porn is illegal because it causes harm, as does beastiality. However any pornography that has participants above the age of 18, committing consensual acts should not be illegal.


So please someone explain why the government should have any say in these things?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Well, that's simple enough to answer. Because no one challenges them on it. And honestly, even if you did, there are too many sheep out there whose only social awareness is spoonfed by the evening news or the tabloids.

There's only one way out of our current predicament and that is out-and-out revolution. We have no choice anymore.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


This doesn't answer the question posed at all, it's simply rhetoric, easily spouted without any thought. You are talking just like the sheep you so vehemently preach against only with a different argument.

Sorry to be so abrupt but i'm interested in how these laws havn't been thrown out long ago. Is it simply because people don't care about these things? Is it because they haven't looked at the issues? Is it because they are unable to see the positive side of legalization?

Or is it simply because people see these things as against their morals without having actually taken a close look at it?

1) Prostitution is often called a victim-less crime. The problem is that many prostitutes are forced into this form of service work due to economic or drug related reasons. This makes them a victim in the eyes of society and therefore, we need laws to stop this practice. There is also the disease transmittal aspect to consider.

Nevada has prostitution laws that allow prostitutes to openly work within a controlled area know as a brothel. Under these circumstances, the environment of the service can be utilized in a safe environment. The girls also are required to have month health checks for various conditions normal to these types of activities.

To just legalize prostitution with no bounds would cause several diseases to spread more easily within certain segments of society and violence against prostitutes would also rise due to unregulated environments for the service.

2) Drug usage is a great idea for someone very rich with money to waste. However, the normal person on drugs needs to support his/her habit with crime. Regardless of what a person thinks, being a drug addict tells on your body and you have mood swings or your physical performance becomes unstable. This usually manifests itself in a work environment with downward tendencies for job performance. The usual outcome is unemployment but still the need for drugs. Drugs are also somewhat easy to make or grow so the government can not control or regulate this industry with taxes. The government gives nothing away for free, so this is why it is considered illegal for drug usage. This is about money.

3) Polygamy is a crime based on many 1800's laws of the USA. These were based on the notion of the US being a divine country with our government leaders performing the work of God. Far left liberals have attacked this notion with vigorous lawsuits and our God inspired laws have been overturned by narrower minded justices. There may be a time that even this type of law will be consider unconstitutional within the USA as our society is broken down into a more depraved society. Hopefully, there is a God, a vengeful God, who will smite all these left wing people and justices!

4) Adult pornography is just fine within the USA. Now define pornography and then you start having problems. But then, so do judges and lawmakers. Sex with a child is obviously illegal. The reason for this is the child does not have the capacity to make this type of decision for themself in a manner that can determine if the child will become injured both physically or psychologically. Sex with animals or other perversions are considered an action deemed by society to be a deviant behavior. This is where the problem lies with this issue. Every person, every religion has it own believes and all these should be considered within the framework of the laws that govern our people. The internet has made many of these forbidden acts to become prevalent or pervasive within society now. This makes it much harder to control or to protect the children from exposure to illicit acts. Censorship is one answer, but it is an extreme measure that would be considered illegal under current laws and interpretation of our Bill of Rights.

Hope this helps you understand a little bit.

Originally posted by hinky
1) Prostitution is often called a victim-less crime. The problem is that many prostitutes are forced into this form of service work due to economic or drug related reasons. This makes them a victim in the eyes of society and therefore, we need laws to stop this practice. There is also the disease transmittal aspect to consider.

I stated the laws i would like to see regarding prostitution in my original post. Proper legalization would result in elimination of all of the negative aspects of prostitution. It would allow far easier prosecution of anyone breaking these laws.

Originally posted by hinky
Nevada has prostitution laws that allow prostitutes to openly work within a controlled area know as a brothel. Under these circumstances, the environment of the service can be utilized in a safe environment. The girls also are required to have month health checks for various conditions normal to these types of activities.

To just legalize prostitution with no bounds would cause several diseases to spread more easily within certain segments of society and violence against prostitutes would also rise due to unregulated environments for the service.

Agreed and that's why i stated the brothel as a good example of a taxable business with safety for men or women working inside of it. Therefore the government has absolutely no reason for making prostitution illegal.

Originally posted by hinky
2) Drug usage is a great idea for someone very rich with money to waste. However, the normal person on drugs needs to support his/her habit with crime. Regardless of what a person thinks, being a drug addict tells on your body and you have mood swings or your physical performance becomes unstable. This usually manifests itself in a work environment with downward tendencies for job performance. The usual outcome is unemployment but still the need for drugs. Drugs are also somewhat easy to make or grow so the government can not control or regulate this industry with taxes. The government gives nothing away for free, so this is why it is considered illegal for drug usage. This is about money.

If it is about money then corporations would be all over it in a second. Corporations could manufacture drugs far more cheaply than a drug dealer. Corporations have vast droves of slaves at their disposal in foreign countries. Alcohol and tobacco do far more harm each year than illegal drugs, so it's hard to understand why the government stop the illegal ones.

Originally posted by hinky
3) Polygamy is a crime based on many 1800's laws of the USA. These were based on the notion of the US being a divine country with our government leaders performing the work of God. Far left liberals have attacked this notion with vigorous lawsuits and our God inspired laws have been overturned by narrower minded justices. There may be a time that even this type of law will be consider unconstitutional within the USA as our society is broken down into a more depraved society. Hopefully, there is a God, a vengeful God, who will smite all these left wing people and justices!

I can only speak for the UK as i'm not from the USA. There is no god (i'm an atheist) so i don't see why it's illegal for people to be polygamous. I should also point out that the USA is supposed to be based on the notion that god and state are different. Read your constitution and you will see that clearly. Your religious beliefs have no basis in this thread. If you honestly believe that the USA is a nation of god you don't belong in that country as the constitution says otherwise.

Originally posted by hinky
4) Adult pornography is just fine within the USA. Now define pornography and then you start having problems. But then, so do judges and lawmakers. Sex with a child is obviously illegal. The reason for this is the child does not have the capacity to make this type of decision for themself in a manner that can determine if the child will become injured both physically or psychologically. Sex with animals or other perversions are considered an action deemed by society to be a deviant behavior. This is where the problem lies with this issue. Every person, every religion has it own believes and all these should be considered within the framework of the laws that govern our people. The internet has made many of these forbidden acts to become prevalent or pervasive within society now. This makes it much harder to control or to protect the children from exposure to illicit acts. Censorship is one answer, but it is an extreme measure that would be considered illegal under current laws and interpretation of our Bill of Rights.

Hope this helps you understand a little bit.

Actually it doesn't help me understand at all. I stated quite clearly the limiations on pornography and prostitution that would be sensible by law. I stated above that sex with animals or children is harmful to the parties involved and so is banned for a very good reason. I said that sex between consenting 18 year old parties should not be censored, maybe i should have added the word 'human' into that sentence.

So lets be clear. Pornography between consenting 18 year old human beings should not be illegal no matter what acts are involved. The only exceptions being murder of course as snuff films are, and always will be illegal and for very good reason.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


If prostitution is legalized, then you have the government involved more, as they need to regulate the business, taxes, healthcare, etc.

I personally think it should be legalized. Someone is going to a prostitute no matter the legal status. I would rather the workers be kept safe. I think the those who press moral values on others and the insecure keep it illegal.
People use prostitutes for many reasons. The super shy, those who can't get partners. I had a friend who in his mid 60s had a drive like you wouldn't believe, and had to see a prostitute several times a week to relieve it. His wife could not keep up with that drive in her 60s.

Drugs, well that effects the government too. Treatment, rescue work in case of OD. Though I don't think things like MJ should be illegal. But the heavier stuff, certainly. There is the payout s of unemployment, medicaid, bankruptcy, etc. People aren't capable of just doing it recreationally. Someone with a drug habit ruins families and tears them apart. The heartbreak is unreal.

I think the Polygamy is illegal for the legal ramifications. If a spouse dies, who gets what? If there are 5 wives and 25 children, no one benefits.
In the case of polygamy, where it is a man with many wives. Wives are never happy. If you read the stories of polygamists, it takes a lot of manipulation, mind control, and threats, abuse, and a hierarchy to keep the wives quiet. I can't imagine what it would be like if it were Polyandry.
Situations where one has so much control over others is never healthy. And those spouses who have senority over others tends to use the power abusively.


Though I don't think that monogamy is natural either. What I believe is that the cavement practised a more group setting. Where you had a few sets of breeding couples that would swap among themselves. Therefore there was variety, yet it was intimate enough that everyone could care for each other and the children.

Now, there are some small socities where there are group marriages. I watched one on National Geographic basically where your brothers wives were your wives and your sisters husbands were your husbands, etc.They seem to work, because one does not have power over another.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Why does the government have any say in these four instances?

Prostitution
Drug Usage
Polygamy
Adult Pornography



I beleive the word government is your trick answer - appointees to govern your mental through these ill goodies they've created - may I ad fraud, gambling, stealing, and killing of innocents...all of it is wrong and perverted. It is a setup, and it is through one's fear and guilt that the individual who may get stuck in one of these governmentaly tolerated and proffitable pass-times becomes dangerous and sick through natural need of escallation. Think, if humans evolved out of these vices, the government is no longer needed. So they make you beleive they are not part of the problem by administating penalties and taxes. I call them the Pervertment

[edit on 6-12-2008 by HulaAnglers]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984


I can only speak for the UK as i'm not from the USA. There is no god (i'm an atheist) so i don't see why it's illegal for people to be polygamous. I should also point out that the USA is supposed to be based on the notion that god and state are different. Read your constitution and you will see that clearly. Your religious beliefs have no basis in this thread. If you honestly believe that the USA is a nation of god you don't belong in that country as the constitution says otherwise.

As an English person, I thought you'd enjoy some dry wit.

Our founding fathers had very strong religious convictions and this is shown in our constitution. The separation of State and church has only been re-interpreted in the last 50 years that removed religious prayer and items from public school (Murray v. Curlett lawsuit). People have many different beliefs over this issue and it has been turned into something our founding fathers would have never allowed. When one reads the papers of our founders before the establishment of the Constitution, there was a very active debate on this very issue. The argument was basically not allowing the government to sponsor a religion, such as Protestant, while acknowledging the existence of God and his relationship with the people. They were all deeply religious men, but didn't want the State to only support one religion or sect of religion.

As for pornography, I had some thoughts about this and maybe we don't see the same term used for the same action. I consider pornography to be a media of sexual actions. This could be in written form, or photographs, or movie type media.

The actions between two people or a person and anything else, of any sex, would just be considered the sex act. I do not consider this pornography. If you have 2 people over the legal age for the state, there should be no limits on the sex performed. This clearly falls under the freedom of speech or expression, and would also fall under under right to privacy within our 4th amendment.

I have to leave now as there is no save draft feature anymore. We'll examine some more issues a little later.

Well as far as drug usage goes, I can see no reason why marijuana should be illegal in this or any other country. I can however give you many reasons why it should be legalized.

It might come as a surprise to some, but the foremost reason marijuana is illegal today is because of the racial bigotry prevalent when it was first made illegal. It was seen as a black and Mexican drug, and as such considered very undesirable. It was then but a simple thing to demonize the drug with fictional pseudo-science, religious dogma, dishonest politics, and outright lies. If you watch a film like Reefer Madness today it seems comical... ridiculous... laughable. Unfortunately, people of the day believed such nonsense, and to some extent some of those perceptions continue even now. And hence its illegality.

The best reason I can give you for the legalization of marijuana is money. By the U.S. government's own conservative statistics, marijuana has been the leading cash crop in this country since since 2000 - 2001. All untaxed. With the economy in the shape it's in now, how can you ignore such a potential source of revenue? Not to mention, the money that would not have to be spent in the law enforcement sector, trying to fight a futile "war" on marijuana. Or the money not spent in the prison systems on marijuana offenders. There are billions to be made on taxation, and billions to be saved through legalization. It boggles my mind that we, as a country, continue to ignore this, and continue to throw good money after bad.

Unlike other drugs, marijuana isn't physically addictive. The same cannot be said of alcohol, or nicotine in cigarettes, which are both legal. In fact, while cigarettes and alcohol remain legal in this country, there is no sensible argument you can make for the continued criminalization of marijuana. But there are numerous logical arguments that can be made for it's legalization.
Until then, this country's drug policy is nothing but hypocrisy incarnate.

Interesting topic. I'll just tackle one of your four here.

Polygyny is one man married to several women.
Polyandry is one woman married to several men.
Polygamy refers to either arrangement.

Technically- isn't western society made up of mostly serial polygamy -- more than one wife/husband -- just not at the same time?

Polygyny is a way to quickly increase the population, but we don't need more population. On the other hand, societies in which the infant mortality rate is high and the birthrate is low can benefit from polygamous relationships. It maximizes the number of children that one man can produce, allowing the society to sustain its population.

Polyandry makes more sense as it would reduce population. Once the woman is pregnant with Whomever's child, at least she won't have another pregnancy for nine months, while the polygamist's family still actively works on repopulating the county in which they reside. And in polyandry, if one man wanted to leave, he might only be compelled to support the child or children whose DNA matches his own.

In certain rural areas of India, Nepal, and Tibet, fraternal polyandry is culturally accepted. This is the practice of one woman marrying all of the brothers within a family, and the reasoning behind it involves land distribution. The land is passed down within the family to the men, but rather than dividing it among each child, they all continue to live and work upon the same plot of land. With one woman bearing the children, it creates a form of population control allowing the family to sustainably continue this practice, and in a region where arable land is scarce and the poverty level is high, fraternal polyandry makes sense.

One problem with it is a supply and demand thing. The supply of women stays consistent, but the demand goes up. Men must offer more and more to entice a woman into marriage. The very wealthy end up with many wives, but the poor man can't afford even one.

Consider the surreptitious-family-on-the-side scenario. If one family were under the impression that they are the sole beneficiaries, but the head of the household is maintaining another family on the side and syphoning off one family's funds to give to the other without knowledge of that party, it would be a significant betrayal of trust and hardship for those deceived. You can say, "make a law that all parties must be informed" but the fact is we don't have the personnel to enforce the "no polygamy" law we have in America today. We certainly can't enforce that.

As a society we have a big problem now with fathers not paying child support. As more demands are made on a man's means, fewer will pay child support. This would put more children on welfare. This is not good for society.

In a polygynist society, when a boy reaches sexual maturity, you immediately have a problem. It becomes a young bull/old bull sexual rivalry. So in most practicing polygynist societies, boys are tossed out of the home at a very tender age.

Where we do see polygamy (polygyny really) in America today, we see a lot of reports of women being virtually held as prisoners, and of underaged girls being forced into marriage. We see a degradation of women, as they're considered to be breeding stock. In general, an elder, ruling male with a harem achieves this status by dominance in terms of resources, power and often violence.

Inheritance disputes can make an already-overburdened legal system even more unmanageable.

A sole provider dying or being disabled can suddenly leave many dependent on the state.

What happens if there is a man with 5 wives. But each of those wives have a husband or two and those husbands have a few wives and....see where this is going? If polygamy were legalized in America, we would have to completely overhaul the laws regarding marriage, because they don't work effectively when you start adding more than two people to the mix.

cubster1 - a star for your research and makeup. Polyandry, all the brothers in the familly('')('')(''('')('')('')('')('')jav('')('')imagine that

[edit on 4-1-2009 by HulaAnglers]

ImaginaryReality, the way you wrote your post actually explains why. Let me explain...

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Why does the government have any say in these four instances?

Prostitution
Drug Usage
Polygamy
Adult Pornography

I will now give positive reasons for why these should not be illegal.

Prostitution

I have never used a prostitute and in all truth i don't see the attraction.

Drug Usage

Personally i have never used drugs (other than alcohol and caffeine).

Polygamy

I would never do this myself as one women is enough trouble

.

Although it added nothing to your argument, you found it necessary to explain that you did not subscribe to these activities. For Prostitution, Drug Usage, and Polygamy (with the possible exception of drug usage), no politician wants to admit to or even appear to admitting to doing these because they know it will be the end of their career. It's a cultural thing where even debating the legality of it is seen as approving of it.

Adult Pornography

Recently labour has decided that bondage and violent pornography should be illegal. I fail to see why though. They say that violent porn leads to violent crimes, but this doesn't seem to fit up with reality. Violent criminals watch this stuff because they are already thinking these thoughts. Some use it to further their fantasies but in the end they are the type of people who will always end up harming someone.

Obviously certain forms of pornography should be illegal and that's why i labeled this as adult pornography. Child porn is illegal because it causes harm, as does beastiality. However any pornography that has participants above the age of 18, committing consensual acts should not be illegal.

It's interesting that you did not find it necessary to deny pornography. (Not saying anything about you... ) Adult pornography is more widely accepted and therefore, more public debate on the issue. Out of the four, I submit that adult pornography has the best chance for this reason (and, thus the reason why, at least at the moment, it is legal).