College May Become Unaffordable for Most in U.S.

it already is
(the COLLEGE EDUCATION SCAM)
or it is a scam or both
AND YOU PAY THROUGH the NOSE
then find out there is no jobs
or if it is a good paying job for which why you went to college
then the corp doesnt wanna pay so they OUTSOURCE
defeats the whole purpose for going to school
to get a higher wage which "they" wont pay anyway
the only ones making money is the COLLEGES
heres what you do
GO TO COLLEGE and then LEAVE the USA
the USA is a STONE AGE NATION

Originally posted by GRANDWORLDDRAMA
AND YOU PAY THROUGH the NOSE
then find out there is no jobs

Partly that would depend on what subject area you graduate in, but there are plenty of jobs available, you just have to think outside of the mainstream graduate-herd mentality and look elsewhere other than the mainstream employment sources.

reply to post by Finn1916


Finn,
I do understand that many athletic programs bilk money from their unis but that does not seem to be the case everywhere. I also don't see that athletics is the main cause for skyrocketing higher education costs; which seems to be the reason athletics were brought up in the first place. Athletic funding might contribute to the problem but it is certainly not the main issue.

Obs out

reply to post by VelmaLu



As someone who has both taken distance ed courses and been involved in teaching distance ed courses I would argue that would be a tremendously bad way to educate undergrads. The experience is simply not the same. Students typically do not learn as much, as deeply, or as well, when taking online courses.
It might save money, but at what cost?

[edit on 5-12-2008 by observer]

Personally, I don't see what is so great about college in the US anyway.
most corporations these days recruit these kids straight out of school because they have a diploma and they're totally worthless.

They possess no people skills, no survival skills, street smarts etc.
These are things that are of the utmost importance in today's business world and none of them have it, so it's not a shocker that a lot of the companies we see today aside from the economy are in such trouble.
Most of it is outright inefficiency, poor communications skills and a general Emo air about everything.

So good, if people won't be able to afford it, and it gives you absolutely nothing perhaps that will eliminate a huge swarm of debt in the form of student loans in the near future, making SOME people productive at an earlier age.

And another thing. College might teach you things that you might use. I have not really used much of what i was taught. But one thing college doesn't do is make you smart. You are either born smart, or you're not.

And if you're not born smart, obviously college isn't going to do a damned thing, but give you a piece of paper that companies seem to think qualifies people to do a job....which they end up finding out too late was not the case at all.

Lastly, to spend the coin on tuition at one of the "better" universities in this country, means that half the crap you're taught is based not on truth, but rather more relevant to political agenda,

We can do without another generation of the human equivalent of veal as far as I'm concerned, and replace that with people who possess a true and useful skill.

reply to post by TheWayISeeIt

My daughter and her husband will graduate from college next Spring with over $100,000 in education loans and only B.S. Degrees. They have to get good paying jobs, just to get by.

I'd like to try to address some of the concerns that have been expressed on this thread. I retired last year, after teaching at a four year college for about a decade. Prior to that, I ran a business, and prior to that, I worked for a large corporation.
One of the things that I quickly realized, after about 6 months as a professor, was that if colleges had to run their institution like a business, they would be out of business. I was a professional hire, having spent the large majority of my life in the field of business, and as CEO of my corporation, I was quite familiar with the economics of running an organization.
What I am about to say is purely my opinion, as a private individual now, with no ties to the school that I taught at anymore. The day I retired all my benefits ceased, so I am beholden to them in no way.
One of the main problems with post secondary education is the illusion that they are above running their institution as a business. This, however, is far from the truth. Every stop is pulled out to entice students to attend. However, they realize that in most cases(not all, I realize), the "sell" needs to be made to the parents, not the prospective student. Now, how do they think they can best accomplish that. Well, you might say, better technical facilities, top educational offerings, etc. You'd be wrong. The thing that "sells" a college to the parents, in most cases, are the physical facilities- pretty buildings, huge libraries, nicely landscaped campuses, and of course, fantastic sports facilities. Those are all quite expensive items on a balance sheet. No problem, all they have to do is raise tuition. That is the first problem.
Now, let's go to the second major problem. Let me call it "truth in advertising". Schools love to publish "graduation placement rates", such as 95% of our business students were placed within 6 months of graduation in their field of study. However, let me let you in on another dirty little secret. If Mary and John both graduate with a B.A. degree, and Mary ends up selling computers at Staples, and John ends up selling hamburgers at McDonalds, both are considered to be successfully placed in their field of study. Nice, huh?
Onto the third problem- professors that are about 1 week ahead of the students in the course they are teaching. It is not at all uncommon for a professor to teach a course that they have no/very little knowledge or experience with. How do they do it? Well, they call up their friendly textbook rep, who recommends a text, along with "Instructor material", which usually includes complete PowerPoint slides, a full narrative for the slides, exercises with the answers, and electronically delivered tests, of course, all with answers. If a student asks the prof a question in class, they may get the old "read the book" answer from the prof. Now, not all profs are like that;however, there are many that are. In many cases, the students could learn just as much by reading the text on their own. Of course, then they wouldn't get credit for the course, and we all know how important those credits are!
Now, why is that? Well, schools look for "accreditation" from accreditation organizations. These bean counters go to schools, examine curricula, looking for templates that match what they consider "good curricula". It is planned mediocrity. There is no room for straying from the criteria for accreditation. It would take too long to explain the entire process, but believe me, it is a sham.
Hundreds of pages of documentation are produced by the school, in order to get the blessings of the accreditation organization. In most cases, it is pure BS, and I don't mean Bachelor of Science!
Now, what you parents or students do?
Given the present situation, which is not ideal, to say the least, here is the best way to at least have a shot at an education that will result in a decent job:

1.) Start off at a local community college, if possible. Determine what you might like to major in, and take a few basic courses. Most students change majors several times, and those intro courses, at a community college are a much more reasonable way, financially, to find out if you will like the field, or not. Don't be afraid to change your mind, after taking courses. Better to do that early, rather than 3 years into your studies. Once you think you have settled on a major, then start thinking about where you want to finish your studies. State institutions are your best bet, financially.

2.) Make sure that courses that you take at the community college will transfer to where you want to go. You can find that out, by contacting the registrar's office at your "target" school.

3.)Get your associate degree at the community college, then apply for transfer to your 4-year school. In addition to saving you tuition, it is usually easier to get into a 4-year school, after two successful years, with decent grades at the two year school, so take your 2-year courses seriously.

4.) Once at your 4-year school, find out if any college-core courses can be taken over the summer locally, if you are going away to the 4-year school. Courses like electives usually have transferable credit courses at local schools, but again, check in advance with the registrar at your 4-year school.

5.) Buying textbooks from the bookstore at the college can be quite expensive. Instead, try to find out in advance what texts will be used when you register for your next semester courses. Then go to websites like addall.com, which will search dozens of sources for your text (get the ISBN number from the prof, if possible), and list all available texts, lowest to highest price. They will bundle your texts, and ship them together. There is nothing wrong with buying used texts. Another dirty little secret is that textbook publishers will make extremely minor changes to a text, then come out with a "new edition". In most cases, the previous edition is fine. Ask your prof. Decent profs will tell you whether you can get away with a previous edition of a text. I always made sure that I stipulated in my course syllabus the text, ISBN, and all of the editions that were acceptable. In addition, in many cases, there is not much difference between material of different texts for basic courses. I always selected texts with price in mind, since when I went to school, I had to work my way through school, and pay my own way.

6.) I strongly recommend that students get a job to pay for part of their tuition and textbooks. Not only is it an economic necessity for many, but I found that in most cases, students that had jobs performed quite well, in many cases, better than those who had their parents paying for them. There is something about paying your own tuition that "encourages" better effort, in addition to adding to self-worth.

There are many more things that can be done, but with effort, you can get a good affordable education.

Whatever students do, they should take their education seriously. Save the parties until after you graduate, and have a job. I know that will fall on deaf ears, but believe me, you have your entire life ahead of you.

As someone once said, if you thing education is expensive, try ignorance.



[edit on 5-12-2008 by ProfEmeritus]

reply to post by observer


Yeah, people who paid to go to college will always say that online courses will never be as good as attending college, but the smartest people I know are self educated, so that blows this theory out of the water.

Most teachers don't offer a lot, many absolutely nothing to the material, and can be more of a hinderance to learning. Have you ever taken a course for a credit in a subject where you were knowledgable, as in considerable work experience? YOu will find it amazing how little some teachers know about the subject they are teaching.

Good teachers are great, but they are few and far inbetween. What college needs to provide are the essentials, that enable students to learn the job once they get one.

Few jobs reuire the intensive book learning the colleges emphasize. Rarely do you need to do complicated math, never trig., except in a few fileds. Statistics sometimes, but it is amazing how many engineers can't even get through the basic statistics calculation of standard deviation. You do these things rarely, so the key is being able to open the book and figure it out when needed. People who had to study a great deal to learn this stuff don't relearn it very quickly. This is why the whole degree angle is garbage. Yeah, sure the students were able to learn the subject enough to pass the test, but they never really understood it, so they never master the skills.

People who can learn this stuff on their own are also the people who can apply it in real life. Most of these types of people are bored out of their skulls in school, being forced to learn at a rate that is far below their capability. This is the real crux of the problem.

I live in New Zealand , and have never understood how in america parents are allmost expected to save for kids college . Here in New Zealand unless you are well off most parents worry more about paying the bills , I want to go for my Diploma in Information and Communications technology next year which is just a fancy name for prgramming and software development so that I can get into robotics and artificial inteligance . I don't even know if I can afford it because even though I live at home I have to pay board and pay for things I need like clothes and stuff . I have an interest in Hotrods and drag racing so at least I have that to fall back on .

But I find it very interesting how much college costs are put on parents in america. I can't even borrow money off of my parents let alone ask them to pay for my post high school education .

my college tuition for this coming winter sem went up 20%.
Same with the books and software.

I currently have 2 jobs but one is a contract php programmer job. Which is a on and off thing. So far I worked for about 3 weeks and then now off until January. I know they are having money troubles.

My college are also lazy. My federal income tax class.. . the professor didn't teach he gave us the hw due dates and exam dates for the whole semester and if you ask a question he would reply go look at pages 123 to page 126. You would look in those pages and after an hour or so you will figure out he it nothing to do with the problem your having.

the guy made us for the final exam use tax act 2007 demo version. I downloaded and used it however when I was saving it I get a windows poped up saying to buy the full version. It was like 30 bucks a copy.

I couldn't submit it so I got a 0 on the exam even though I done it I e-mailed my professor right when I notice the problem. He told me I must downloaded turbo tax and I go no I downloaded tax act 2007.

well since I had a C in the class and that exam was worth alot I ended up failing the class.

I reported him to the dean and the dean done nothing. I have to retake the class but that same teacher is the only one that teaches federal tax.

I already can see it being expensive for most Americans to go to college. I also do get upset knowing that I have to take classes that has nothing to do with my major and feel like it's a waste of time and money. I have talked to the owner of some colleges since my teacher in highschool knew one guy and asked him to come in at the end of our 12th grade year.

He told us every college knows who you are and where you live and alot of information they buy from the black market. He told us that also colleges make alot of money off students that are forced to take classes that are not involved into their major because it's more money/funds for the college.


Today I can see there are not much jobs. Even if you just graduate from college you won't find any job or have about 1 or 2 years to find one. I am talking in the sence of my experience in Michigan.

Finally I have seen a thread that really applies to me. I have been on these boards for a few years now lurking and seeing what this country has really become. I am now a junior in college with 30k in debt with a 3.5 gpa and aspiring to become an aerospace engineer. My parents are considered to be rich since they make 90k a year, this coming from mainly hard work and from my dad spending 20 years in the Army.
However with today's standards of living and higher institutions of learning I have to expect my parents to pay thousands of dollars for my education(which my parents cannot spend). This requires me to take out 20,000 dollar loans for each year to attend the U of Minnesota. As the state of the economy is in I cannot find a job or any other way to pay for my expenses. This leaves me in a continuous debt that will eventually leave me 80k in debt by the time I get a B.A. in Aerospace Eng. I have been attending public universities for three years now and have basically nothing to show for it, mainly due to the two years of useless classes I have had to take. How am I to pay for this amount of debt? By the time I achieve my B.A. I will be receiving a max of 60k from my job a year to pay for the debt.
As I see it from high school it would have been better for me to get a job and work up from there. As I see it the current system is extremely unreliable. Giving thousands upon thousands of dollars to people that do not deserve it is an abomination that the nation has to pay for. Right now I will be lucky if I can have my parents cosign my loan for next fall. This has left me in an extremely pissed off state that such an important profession in our recent history has been reduced to a useless degree compared to the amount of work I put into it.
And as for the people that are complaining about the students that have the luxurious cars, and such, you are completely in the wrong. I know very few people with nice cars in my area. As far as I am concerned many of the youth's priorities are in disarray. When you first start out in college many students spend many years partying. I have had my fun in college but the fact is that college is not as hard as it should be. Many years are wasted due to excess classes that are supposed to broaden your learning. As far as I am concerned college is a very flawed system that needs to be fixed very soon. Otherwise we will see a drop in the amount of necessary workers that we need.

A college education in the US is easily within reach financially for anyone that is serious about it. I live in California, and total annual cost at any CSU campus is less than $13,000. That amount of money can be easily obtained through student loans and/or a part time job.

www.calstate.edu...

Besides, of what benefit to the U.S. taxpayers is your college degree in advanced women's studies?

I am hoping that the changes in the economy will make us re-examine everything we do and strive to obtain. Maybe it will be end of an era of material shallowness.

If you think about it, college is pushed upon youth as a way to get a good job (used to be to get a husband for women) so they can afford a big house, two nice cars and a couple of kids. . . along with tons of stress.

Rarely do you hear that education should be a means towards developing skills that will result in a fulfilling and rewarding life. Ask most people what they would be doing if time and money were no object, and very few will say it is what they are doing daily. I dare say that 90% of the people in the world view a job as only a means towards having a life, and one they don't really want anyway.

There's this underlying notion in America that if you are doing exactly what you want and you are happy and loving life, but not somewhat wealthy, that you are unsuccessful. We equate success purely with monetary gain and career advancement. If you die at age 50 from a heart attack, but with a two homes, a fat retirement, trophy wife and all the trappings, you would be considered a success.

But really, isn't the guy who loves nature and is a farmer more successful?

So we foist this lie upon youth, tell them they will be happy if they have XYZ career, and then we push them into going to a four-year college to get little or no real training so they can come out with $50,000 in loan debt and a piece of paper entitling them to compete for a job they will likely hate.

How many people do you know who are doing a job closely related to their degree? I can think of only one.

And then there are the people who are naturally inclined toward learning who will find college stifling that drive, the classes boring and the professors slow.

It's like this concept of corporatism has taken over everything, including education.

the biggest cost of instituntionalized education is and has never been financial.

the price we pay, is with our freedom of thought...

"Hey teachers, leave us kids alone, all and all, your just a-nother brick in the wall"

I was accepted to college and cannot pay. I have a 4.299 GPA, was awarded no merit scholarships. I was awarded no financial aid because my parents made a lot in 2008 but my father was unemployed for 8 years before that and we are still paying that off.

Why bother. Now I need to scrounge up.. oh.. 41 thousand #ing dollars.
What would you do?

In the USA, college isn't for everyone...it shouldn't be either! Years back, there was technical training in highschool which allowed an individual to take those skills and apprentice further following graduation. Yes, these are mainly blue-collar hands-on jobs, but they're just as needed as white-collar paper pushing. The problem, as I see it with the "entitlement" to college, is that the standards of education in k-12 have severely declined over the years. So now, a high school diploma no longer holds the same weight it once did. Individuals need to attend further education just to come up to par where they should be. Community college fills this role nicely and the costs should not be putting anyone into 10-15 years of debt. In reality, the knowledge learned here should have been taught earlier on, but, that's another discussion.

Now, a comment on distance vs residential models...

I've taken classes in multiple formats over the years, from traditional residential courses, to fully online, to low-residential (1-2 weeks on campus, remainder distance). Each has it's benefits and each has it's flaws. I've known plenty of individuals who drank their way through undergrad and have nothing to show for it. I know individuals who excelled in residence. I know a handful who couldn't stick to a schedule & fell behind with their online course work...and others who held down full time jobs & wrote some great papers. I've personally had professors who could care less about the class in both formats. A well designed course taught by a competent professor in either distance or residential will have greater student success rates then either format with a poor course design.