Why I believe the Mumbai attacks were definately a False Flag Op.

Interesting points Icecoldpro there is a lot of raw data coming from India and other sources,whoever planned this comes from the highest levels of the Indian government to be able to counter all of the anti-terror measures in Mumbai does show a lot of previous planning on their part.

[edit on 033131p://2426 by mike dangerously]

The whole thing about assassins being doped up comes from the idea that they were exposed to opiates during induction, not before a mission. In fact, there are multiple interpretations to origin the name 'assassin'.
However, the idea of ignoring Islamic law (These men going to bars; 911 highjackers in clubs) is related. Those in the Assassin cult were taught that they trancended the law of Islam and that the Holy Quran was not meant to be taken literally. The assassins were a very dangerous society and their techniques and customs are alive today in the form of modern terrorism. They use tried and true tactics that may seem unorthodox but are very effective. So yes, they may seem coordinated and this is for a reason: they are highly trained and motivated pawns of the higher ups in the modern terrorist movement (a reincarnation of the Assassin cult of the Crusades). No conspiracy on our part, something more deadly on theirs. They do not have to be wearing balaclavas or checkered head scarves and sport AK47s. That is like saying that ninjas all wear loose fitting black suits. Not the case at all, there is no uniform for the terrorist.

As for a 60 hour siege, I am not surprised. Terrorist situations are very tense and those outside are not sure of what is going on inside. They were "holed-up" in a civilian location with many civilians. The terrorists were probably not working alone. I believe they had funding and training from a larger group. I would not be surprised if they were terrorist spec ops. (Yes such a thing exists; it was certain Islamic groups during the Crusades that pioneered the special forces era). If I was a terrorist leader, I'd realize a small group of highly trained elite assassins could wreak more havoc than a large group of terrorist grunts. Through the disorganized nature of terrorism, they effectively perpetuate confusion until it permeates the culture of an entire country. Terrorists are great at knowing how to confuse and divide. They know that the government will expand its power as the result of an attack to ensure greater security. They know that the people will resent this and resent their government and suspect their government. They knew that causing 911 would cause greater problems in the US even after the rubble was cleaned up and we thought we were safe again. They brought in a new state of fear. They know how many people work mentally and how to influence the feelings of a culture. Do I think they were the ones that pulled this India thing off? Definitely. Just gives me another reason to dislike them more.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by newagent89]

FOR the OP...why in the world would a 'false flag' Operation be mounted in India??? AND then 'tied' to covert OPS from Pakistan?????

EVERY example, on the ATS website, of alleged 'false flag' Ops tend to opine that any alleged 'false flag' Op would be mounted to enrage the US and inflame THAT response....not some horrible, misguided terrorist attack in India!!!

AND, why do you, OP, believe it is a 'False Flag Op'??? You are no doubt aware that one of the perps has been captured, alive? And he is talking...

THIS incident is serving to de-stablize two nations, each of which happen to have nuclear weapons. AND, they are NO THREAT to the 'homeland' of the USA...unless you can't get ahold of your computer tech support (GRIN).

OK, granted....our current troops are in harm's way, should Nuclear fall-out occur. BUT, if it kills al-Quaida, or the Taliban, then what's the harm in that??

Comments.....?

i shouldnt even have to say this here but we all know that there are NO conspiracies whatsoever and the CIA never trained Al Queda right?

no sure thing not possible the terrorists were never trained or supported by any groups outside of themselves right?

theres no way these guys could have got weapons, communications devices, or intel from anyone other then their fanatical terrorist friends right?

/end sarcasm

ok i'm not saying this is a conspiracy for sure but the point of this thread is not to debunk that possibility; it is in fact the opposite. try to add something to the thread please people.

on that note, in my opinion this add to the constant terrorism that has been going on for years now off and on, yet it has its own distinct signature that says to me: A) these guys did in fact plan on escaping with their lives and gaining something from it; be it money, notoriety, or whatever one can think of B) it was, as pointed out by the OP, conducted in a somewhat professional manner compared to most terrorist attacks recently, as well as with much animosity. C) can you say MERCENARIES?

Perhaps the term "false flag" can have a more liberal definition. If it's something that's to intentionally stir up trouble to a specific end, and not any such vague claim as a holy (religious) mission, it's outside the official lamestream definition of fanatical terrorism and therefore a false enough front for the real powermongers.

Anyone noticed how Mumbai has to be the most unarmed per capita city in the world? The solution to the problem, by the too-commonly American view, isn't to arm the population, but, particularly in America, to be honest enough about the root causes of the pathological need that good (enough) people feel to have a gun for protection... It's a long story, but it involves forsaking the general culture of official (and some other) secrecy as the main task, as I see it.

Serioiusly, what is the motivation for the U.S. to start a war with Pakistan? I see no advantage. The Pakistan government is doing what it can to cooperate with the U.S. without angering its constituents any more than necessary. Does anyone believe that we want the Taliban that much to start a war with Pakistan? Pakistan offers nothing to the U.S. in the way of resources or strategic territory. War with Pakistan would only be an un-necesary waste of military resources. There is no legitimate motivation.

Then look at the other side, the motivation of Muslims to constantly attack India. The history of Muslim aggression in India is well documented. Then there is the additional motivation, in that the Middle East is trying to develop as a world banking center, and that India's growth is a very real threat to Middle Eastern development as a world banking center. The future of banking resides in technological proficiency in software, as protection of a banks assetts is the ability to write encryption software. In this area India has tremendouse advantages over the Middle East. In addition, Israel is also very proficient at writing software, so destruction of any kind of Israeli alliance with India would also serve Middle Eastern interests. It is easy to see the reasons for a Muslim assault on India's banking center when looking at these realities.

Motivation is the key.

reply to post by IceColdPro


so just because thay held of the cops & military for so long it points to other things...

no... it points to the fact that the police and military are that bad in india! should of sent in the SAS for 5minites

I haven't really researched this top as much as some of you, but one thing seemed really odd to me. I was watching the news and they said India had found a hijacked boat with a cell phone that make a call to the president of Pakistan not long before the attacks as well as gps devices. Then they went on and on about how well these attacks were carried out...I also read an article with a report from a business traveler that often stays at this hotel. He said that the hotel always has such tight security and for some reason on this last visit all security was taken away.

Well first off if these were professionals they surely would not carelessly leave a cell phone and equipment behind to be found. I mean apparently they carried out these attacks so well, but had to hijack a boat and then left equipment in it...? As far as the British men found I read that they had their ID's on them...I doubt any organization pulling off attacks as risky as this would keep ID's on them unless these people were carrying fake IDs to set up someone else.

I don't know...it really could be anyones guess just my two cents.

Interesting about the US civil liberties being gobbled up over Thanksgiving weekend and not covered in the news (or thrown out with the garbage while it was 24 hour Mumbai.) I too would love any links you can provide on that - I hadn't heard it before.

And how many times did we hear that Mumbai is "India's Financial Center." The sound bite was clearly "struck the financial center of India" and it was dutifully repeated ad nauseum by Fox and CNN.

Why India? Was it just her turn to get "hit"? I think the whole story is horrible. I feel so sorry for the families and the kids in India that had to watch this live or sit with their families like we did glued to TVs in shock.

I also think that the numbers - less than 180 killed with multiple explosion sites on crowded streets - this to me is evidence enough that it was strategically handled and calculated theater for the press. In Mumbai where 4,000 people a year die just from the over crowding on commuter trains.

I also don't think it was a coincidence that it was prolonged for US attention acutely on our biggest TV day - even though it started 24 hours earlier - when our stock markets were closed and the rest of the world was open.

I also wonder if there isn't infighting amongst the powers that be behind these things. I wonder if there wasn't talk of more attacks around the world that day? It's odd about the French plane going down 12 hours after the Mumbai attacks started. France is another country that hasn't had its turn at being "hit" yet. I almost wonder if that was supposed to be another attack and Sarkozy didn't want to play - so just shot it down over the ocean?

I've been trying to find out what was cancelled because of this. For instance was there talk of OPEC and India discussing something and this was a warning? Was there talk of their no longer using the USD? It wouldn't surprise me if this was a warning shot across the bow to India, China and Brazil from US backed private military groups - a little "remember who's boss." But who knows.




[edit on 12/4/2008 by trusername]

[edit on 12/4/2008 by trusername]

Well hullo - isn't this deja vu

Seems there's a little pipeline called IPI (Iran, Pakistan, India) that was about to be signed on to - probably to be discussed at this OPEC meeting we've heard about so much this week. Of course, US didn't want India to sign on - but talks were going well - it was even called the Peace Pipeline!

machete.gummyprint.com...

the money trail - much as you want it to - it never fails ya ... and all those oily foot prints are so easy to follow...

Lucy... I'mza smellin' somethin...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
FOR the OP...why in the world would a 'false flag' Operation be mounted in India??? AND then 'tied' to covert OPS from Pakistan?????

The world extends beyond the borders of the US my friend, you appear to be ignorant of this fact.

The aim would be to destabilize the entire region! Not all false flag ops are carried out in the US and you can find MOST examples occurring outside of America and Europe. Unfortunately the United States isn't the centre of the universe and there is territorial benefit to be gained overseas.

EVERY example, on the ATS website, of alleged 'false flag' Ops tend to opine that any alleged 'false flag' Op would be mounted to enrage the US and inflame THAT response....not some horrible, misguided terrorist attack in India!!!

This is simply untrue and for you to claim this shows that you know NOTHING about politics beyond your borders or have even bothered reading about theories that relate to events that took place outside the US. Unfortunately 9/11 isn't the only conspiracy my friend.

The war on vietnam started because of a false flag operation!

The second world war kicked off because of a KNOWN false flag operation that was carried out by the Nazi's to frame Poland. Another example from this period was when Hitler's henchmen burned the Reichstag, and blamed it on the Communists and Jews.

You can find more examples here: rationalwiki.com...

AND, why do you, OP, believe it is a 'False Flag Op'??? You are no doubt aware that one of the perps has been captured, alive? And he is talking...

You're right, one of the perps was captured alive, conveniently the only one we have clear pictures of from the event. What we know about him is that when he was taken to hospital, he spoke FLUENT english to the doctors/nurses and pleaded/begged for them to treat him and save his life (he only had a bullet wound to the hand). If it were one of the terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan then I have no doubt that they wouldn't act in this way as it would be disgraceful for them and a sign of weakness. (according to accounts I have read). The terrorists in Iraq would kill you if you were an Iraqi that was known to be seeking direct help from the military like special treatment, etc.

THIS incident is serving to de-stablize two nations, each of which happen to have nuclear weapons. AND, they are NO THREAT to the 'homeland' of the USA...unless you can't get ahold of your computer tech support (GRIN).

You're right my friend! This incident will add further instability to the geopolitical climate in that region and especially between Pakistan and India, however, just because they are no threat to the USA, doesn't mean that the fall of Pakistan wouldn't benefit the NWO. You have to look at the bigger picture my friend, the government isn't out to get YOU (directly) but wants to bring in a New WORLD order and that extends beyond the borders of the US and Europe, the aim is to create a world order in the most literal of senses and that can't happen unless the powers at be defeat Islam (This is a core objective)

Thanks for your comments.

reply to post by IceColdPro


The information flooding in might be incorrect. It would be absolute, pure folly to place any weight on it until it has been corroborated. And the corroboration would come from official channels, which you will instantly discount as possibly being disinformation.

You are basically espousing a position that will never know the truth. You won't listen to official reports, and only to unsubstantiated eye-witness accounts from people who are obviously traumatised during the events they are recalling.

I'm not being sarcastic when I say this, but good luck!

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

The information flooding in might be incorrect. It would be absolute, pure folly to place any weight on it until it has been corroborated. And the corroboration would come from official channels, which you will instantly discount as possibly being disinformation.

You are basically espousing a position that will never know the truth. You won't listen to official reports, and only to unsubstantiated eye-witness accounts from people who are obviously traumatised during the events they are recalling.

I'm not being sarcastic when I say this, but good luck!

Let's be honest, eye-witness accounts aren't that unreliable and I would say a good portion of the threads on this website are based on eye-witness accounts. This is the most unbiased information we can obtain! I mean let's look at the whole Dan Tanna incident when he said he had a fist fight with an alien and gave him the "good news" lol, this was a ridiculous eye witness account but yet so much credibility was given to him... I mean, I would be more traumatised if I saw an alien than a gunman on a motorbike.

I am doing my duty as a seeker of the truth and questioning things, I am not saying that this is black or this is white, I am saying that these are the points that are unclear and that need thorough investigation.

There are inconsistencies and suspicious occurances that happened during the 60 hour siege and I want to investigate these points of interest.

I think it is a double standard for members to give so much weight to UFO accounts and turn around and say that we cannot take eye-witness accounts from a verifiable source seriously.

These accounts are detailed and though the mindset of the person may have been that of shock and trauma, they are highly credible.

reply to post by crmanager


i totally agree with u, the Pakistani started terrorist act against India to capture Kashmir but they dint succeed , now they r using some bad tricks ,its really gona heart them very badly ,i think Pakistan should stop doing such things and stop thinking that the people of India heat them ,but actually people of in hates wat ISI is doing in India not the PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN OR THE ISLAM WHICH IS ONE THE GREAT RELIGION IN THE WORLD , in India " special a common HINDU never like to fight with any ONE BELONGING to any cast or religion but some " powers " within the Pakistan don't like this start findings and riots between Hindu`s and Muslims of India . But know people of India understood the mastermind of ISI we will not break up our unity .
bharth matha ki jai ( om shanthi , "sarve janaha sukhino bhavanthu " )
u r friend for ever Mr. m79.
thank you.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by IceColdPro

 

I think it would be prudent to wait for an official investigation, as a lot of what's coming out from Mumbai at the moment is far from accurate.

No-one, except those who perpetrated it, know if it was a false-flag op for certain. Including you. It would be highly irrational to say it definitely is anything, as quite simply unless you were one of the gunmen, you don't know. Period.

That's based on the assumption that an OFFICIAL investigation is worthy or any merit.

ATS Officer Hermant Karkare (killed in the attack) emphasised in previous attacks for the Indian police NOT to MAKE UP fake evidence to implicate people. That is fact.

Source:timesofindia.indiatimes.com...

So I think we perhaps have a better chance of working things out than your beloved official investigation.

9/11 ?

reply to post by trusername


that to me sounds like the most plausible explanation yet. Star for you my friend

whats odd to me is that why didnt the media talk about the saffron band that one of the terrorist "Azam Amir Kasav" was seen in the picture wearing which i know hindus wear and why isnt there any interviews from hostages that servived who were with the terrorist and not the ones who shut thems selfs in there rooms, i mean they must have heard them say Allah Akbar or something right but none have mentioned this conterary a british indian serviver who escapede them said they were indian,

reply to post by IceColdPro


Thanks for your response, ICP...(and by the way, I am indeed honored to be ranked as a 'respected foe'...)

I must say, though, as you 'picked apart' my post by selectively quoting and responding you managed to simultaneously alter my intent, whilst promoting YOUR premise, and also impugn my intelligence as well...by assuming that just BECAUSE I'm an American I don't have a well-thought-out understanding of Global Politics.

Kudos!!!

Just for clarification --- my opinion is not swayed; the horrible events in Mumbai were carried out by Islamic extremists. The fact that someone may have a different opinion should be considered, but until supported by facts is simply....an opinion. (as is mine...)

reply to post by IceColdPro


Eye-witness accounts are terribly unreliable, especially when the person giving the account was under duress during the time of the incident being recalled. It might be unbiased, but it's intrinsically inaccurate.

Detail does not imply accuracy. People get confused, especially when maniacs are running around firing AK-47s at people.