Holy Scripture-Perpetuating Ignorance.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Stormdancer
has
made
my
point

reply to post by jakyll

I'm talking about people who teach others of the truth yet don't even know it themselves.

Yes I learned that a long time ago when I was going to conduct my first Bible study,

This is the problem, Jesus never told us to shove it down anyone's throat, quite the opposite.



[edit on 033030p://bSaturday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
Who among you can read the Bible without being told by someone how to interpret what you are reading?

Me.

I can also struggle through the Latin Vulgate enough to check the English. I've read it (cover to cover) about 5 times and have several translations of it (including KJV) around the house.

And I don't read a single verse or a single chapter at a time, as most folks do.

You need to be told what it means and that is where sooooooo many people get hosed, because those that are telling you are often not equiped to understand themselves.

This may be true, but a person can educate themselves by reading up on the history of the timeframe, reading the Bible, and reading (from a reliable source) things about the people mentioned in the verse. A basic grounding in ancient Jewish traditions and ancient Roman traditions is also useful for the New Testament.

And reading the older Jewish Midrashes also helps frame understanding.

Likewise, reading the writings of some of the old Church Fathers (although I did like St. Frances, who is not exactly an OCF.) Augustine is entertaining, particularly when recounting his sinful side.

Yes, it can be done, but it's a lot of reading. Most don't want to do that sort of thing in a single year. My reading has been picked up over a lifetime, and there are still Biblical topics I read about today.

...and yes, I'm still a devoted Pagan.

Originally posted by nj2day
the people don't bother looking at anything themselves, and the preacher becomes a demigod.

And a demigod who fears for his position.

I think this is why so many very religious people take a hard stance against science and change of any sort. This very attitude is why Turkey (a civil Muslim nation) is a lot more advanced than Iran (a religious Muslim nation.)

Originally posted by jakyll

Is it,or is it not,an essential part of faith to read and know all of the Holy Scriptures??

Take the Bible,for example.There are many teachings within it they tell the followers that knowledge is powerful,that it is something to be desired and obtained.And that lack of knowledge can be disastrous.

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:because thou hast rejected knowledge,I will also reject thee,that thou shalt be no priest to me:seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God,I will also forget thy children.

I believe that the followers of a religion should know their scriptures,because not knowing is an insult to the Divine Being(s) they claim to worship.

It makes a mockery of the truth they believe in.

And their ignorance breeds more ignorance in a world thats already full to the brim with blind faith.

It is essential to read scriptures if a person is ever to move passed faith, to knowing. I used to be your typical christian; get baptized, love the LORD, and yeehaw at some point were all gonna get raptured out of here.

Now I know better. Take this quote of Jesus: "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."

Your ordinary Christian will read that as Jesus being nailed to the Cross in order to fulfill scripture, when in all actuality this is the real mystery of attaining what Jesus refers to as "eternal life." How does a person begin to argue a mystery when most people haven't had the experience? You can't. So you sit back and watch them all argue and make asses out of themselves. That may seem a little cold hearted but it's the truth.

It is through the Christ presence that God himself teaches his true followers. It's what makes me say to the follower of Islam - you are wrong - back up and read the scripture without changing it and you may have a chance, to those of Judaism - look what you are missing, and those who claim they are Christians but are utterly lacking - never give up.

It is essential to know and understand what one is reading to really know God.








[edit on 30-11-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by Byrd


ooh nice response... How can we expect objectivity from a religious leader who needs job security

we could even draw a similar conclusion as I do for the government:

When the government will do anything to retain it's status as a power, how can we expect it to serve the people...

Replace government with Church, and "people" with truth... (or keep it as people... works either way )




[edit on 30-11-2008 by nj2day]

Byrd.

And a demigod who fears for his position.

Very true indeed.
I wonder how many people ever see it that way.




Myrtales Instinct

It is essential to know and understand what one is reading to really know God.

Couldn't agree more.
Some people may never get through understanding the whole Bible,but the fact that they try is important.To not even bother is what i have a problem with.

Here the way I look at it. If you follow the commandments and have faith and works your saved. But I have told people this. You must have a personal relationship with God. To do that you must pray (talk to God). And God must talk to you (by reading his word the bible) And I think you must be some what well versed in the bible because you must preach the bible. How are you to preach the bible if you don't know whats in the bible????

God bless

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
You can use it to disprove it, or use it to prove it, you can take any scripture and form you own opinion, you can turn to any page and use it for Biblomancy,

i disagree. i think people try, but that doesnt mean they are successful.

one might form their own opinion about something and cherry pick a few scriptures, however does the theory fit the overall theme of the bible? are there scriptures that disprove the theory?

after debating on ATS for a short time, ive seen people put forth theories that they want to believe. but usually the scriptures just dont fit no matter how they apply them (even though they believe they do).

what it boils down to it whether you truly want to find out what the bible is saying or if your satisfied being spoon fed what you want to hear.

reply to post by jakyll


I hope this post is alright It's my first, I do agree with you , many quote scripture, but have no knowledge, let alone any understanding. I am not a fanatic, nor a peddler of Gods word, but will answer in defense of my faith.

Growing up requires our learning how to learn. This is particularly true with respect to spiritual growth. A wise person not only will hear, willingly listen, but will “take in more instruction,” and will not be one “always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” Learning is a cumulative process. Increase in learning brings us a desire to advance to a complete and accurate knowledge of truth, so as to please and have the approval of Jehovah.—Prov. 1:5; 2 Tim. 3:7; Col. 1:9, 10.

No cheap substitute for accurate knowledge will be tolerated by Jehovah; neither can genuine Christians accept such substitute. Christendom’s leaders produce many pew renters, ‘pillars of the church’; but how many do they produce that are equipped to teach others God’s Word? Concerning present-day lack of accurate knowledge Jehovah through his prophet declared: “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: . . . And it shall be, like people, like priest.” No one can come to an accurate knowledge of truth unless the teaching he receives leads to truth. Let each one of us ask himself: Does the teaching I have received square with the Bible? Has it qualified and inspired me to be an active servant of God, from day to day telling the good news of salvation by him?—Hos. 4:6, 9, AS; Ps. 96:2.

Thank you, seemorebetter

reply to post by jakyll


jakyll:

Thank you, very good post. For me, I read my Bible everyday. I pray before I open it and ask God to open it where he would have me seek my spiritual knowledge from today. I always try to search for what that scripture is telling me about my life. When I have my time to pray I always read both OT and NT books. I am a believer that once you have been studying for a while you begin to see how the OT and NT go hand in hand. Well, maybe not totally but enough that you can't dismiss what you read.

I also, believe that we will come upon a time in America that we will have a scripture famine and that will be so sad. Having the Lords Word on my heart daily gives me such peace.

I am sorry, I know that was a little more than you asked in your OP. I tend to get carried away sometimes.


Peace,
Grandma

I think in all things like Grandma said when reading God's word, we should always pray. But I also think we need that personal relationship with God. We also need followship.

But when it comes to followship what the bible says is more important than what your religion teaches. People go to church from the time they where born, and what they learn from the church is what they want you to believe. And sents you been in that church from the begining they believe in it full heartedly, but the question is it in the bible. The bible is the word of God. without it would we not have our beliefs.

Holy Scripture perpetuating Ignorance!!!! I think lack of knowledge is perpetuating Ingornace.