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Two degree rise could spark Greenland ice sheet meltdown: WWF

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posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
The ocean surface is roughly 2/3 of that, or 130,000,000 square miles, leaving 66,000,000 square miles of land. In order for the ocean levels to rise by 4.5 feet worldwide, an amount of ice equal to the water in 110,800 cubic miles would have to melt....

...There's not that much land-based ice in Antarctica!
Post located at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, someone is saying that Greenland (smaller than Antarctica) is going to melt and raise sea levels by 7m instead of 1.5m. It's not physically possible!


GIGO.

The grounded antarctic ice is estimated at

25.71*10^6 Km^3

or in words, almost 26 million cubic kilometers of ice.

For greenland, almost 3 million cubic kilometers of ice is on the surface.


Originally posted by TheRedneck
This is why I state that Global Warming is bull. There is no science involved in such ludicrous claims, and I can disprove them with hard math in a few moments without the aid of multi-million dollar governmental grants and fancy computer models. All I need is a calculator (or a pen and paper, really), and a moment to think. And I'm a redneck!


lol

Draw Calculator....recalculate!

1km^3 = 0.2399 miles^3

[edit on 2-12-2008 by melatonin]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
OK, mel, you got me. There is that much land-based ice in Antarctica... possibly anyway.

However, you yourself forget a few factors.
  • That estimation is only an estimation of total ice, based on a total coverage of 14,000,000 km² and an average thickness of 1.6 km. We have no real way to calculate the amount of actual ice.

  • The amount of ice that is land-based is not 14,000,000 km². That is the total amount of ice.

  • The mass of the ice on the continent has been estimated to have dropped the land by as much as 2.5 km below sea level (meaning we are no talking about land-based ice):

    Averaging at least 1.6 km thick, the ice is so massive that it has depressed the continental bedrock in some areas more than 2.5 km below sea level; subglacial lakes of liquid water also occur (e.g., Lake Vostok). Ice shelves and rises populate the ice sheet on the periphery.
    Source: en.wikipedia.org...

  • The surface of Antarctica is far from smooth, instead containing large mountain ranges that cannot be accurately mapped by traditional means due to the ice coverage. That gives a degree of uncertainty to the estimates given, since the volume of the mountain ranges would subtract an unclear amount from the total volume of ice.

  • All of the ice in Antarctica is not melting. Only two areas at the edge. The rest is actually increasing.

  • Greenland still cannot raise the sea levels by 23 feet.


BSIBSO

TheRedneck


[edit on 2-12-2008 by TheRedneck]



posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
  • Greenland still cannot raise the sea levels by 23 feet.

    BSIBSO

    TheRedneck


  • and now, I shall use your own redneck maths to show this is incorrect...


    The ocean surface is roughly 2/3 of that, or 130,000,000 square miles, leaving 66,000,000 square miles of land. In order for the ocean levels to rise by 4.5 feet worldwide, an amount of ice equal to the water in 110,800 cubic miles would have to melt....


    Greenland is estimated at 2.85*10^6 km^2

    (2.85*10^6)*.2399 = 683715 miles^3

    According to your own calculation, 110,800 would result in 4.5ft of sea level rise. Therefore:

    683715/110800 = 6.78

    6.78*4.5 = 30.52ft

    Therefore, from this rough calculation, greenland melt would result in around 30ft of sea level rise (ca. 9m). However, it's all a bit more complicated due to various factors (e.g., seawater vs. grounded ice) and so the true scientific estimate is 7.2m, or 23.6ft. Which was the original claim.

    Thus, using redneck maths we actually get a higher sea level rise.

    ALARMIST!




    [edit on 2-12-2008 by melatonin]



    posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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    reply to post by hinky
     



    posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:16 PM
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    reply to post by melatonin

    You know something mel? This is getting tiresome. OK, you win.

    Greenland is solid ice, and all the land underneath it is at sea level.

    We are all going to freeze to death tomorrow in a fiery flood.

    Volume and Area are the same thing.

    The ocean will rise 50 feet by Saturday 11:46 AM GMT

    Sorry, but I've got too much work to do to right now to teach you something you will not hear. You know, using all those 'maths' to actually build something.


    (For everyone else, I will be a little scarce for a while. I did just pick up a major order for a design project.)

    TheRedneck



    posted on Dec, 2 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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    I apologize, but I completely disagree that a global rise of two degrees will melt the Greenland cap or anything else, unless one completely takes precipitation out of the equation.

    It takes HEAT to build the ice cap. Near the equatorial regions, water vapor rises, and is eventually carried toward the poles, where it snows.

    The higher the temperature, the more water is evaporated, causing more precipitation everywhere, which always has a cooling effect.

    I simply don't agree with the model that SOME scientists have proposed.

    We just may be in the early stages of global cooling. Not warming.



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 12:25 AM
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    oh its getting colder i hear you say .. so thats why i was walking around in shorts and a singlet in what was supposed to be the middle of winter .. actually what winter the temp barley droped below 35/c

    colder ... heh its the biggest joke ive heard in a long time



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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    reply to post by Demandred
     

    You speak of one area. It's a big world. Who knows? It may be raining where you are, but believe it or not, on the other side of the world, the sun may be shining.

    This is not exactly a new idea, and I didn't just pull it out of my butt.

    Many climatologists disagree with the global warming concept. Right this moment I'm in Florida in the southeast US, and we're freezing our asses off.

    Do some reading.



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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    reply to post by melatonin
     


    Mel - did i read recently where a submerged mountain range was found under what was thought to be floating ice? I think there is a expedition on a field discovery trip to check it out. This ice may be land based. I’ve no idea where I read this perhaps someone else knows



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 05:27 AM
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    Originally posted by Demandred
    oh its getting colder i hear you say .. so thats why i was walking around in shorts and a singlet in what was supposed to be the middle of winter .. actually what winter the temp barley droped below 35/c

    colder ... heh its the biggest joke ive heard in a long time


    What part of Australia are you in? Winter here this year was bloody freezing in Sydney, and Perth (other side of the country) had one of the coldest winters also.

    Last summer was a joke too, did nothing but rain!

    Mikey



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:05 AM
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    Originally posted by majestictwo
    reply to post by melatonin
     


    Mel - did i read recently where a submerged mountain range was found under what was thought to be floating ice? I think there is a expedition on a field discovery trip to check it out. This ice may be land based. I’ve no idea where I read this perhaps someone else knows


    I've not come across that issue, so can't shed any light on it.

    But there's certainly enough land-based ice to put where I live under water. Not that I think it would happen in my lifetime.



    posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:46 AM
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    reply to post by melatonin
     


    These were not he ones I originally read but they will do – the one I read speculated that ice could be sitting on the range. Anyhow take a look don’t tell anyone they will say its Atlantis

    Link 1

    Link 2



    posted on Dec, 6 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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    I would be thankful for just a little water rising. A couple of cities lost no big deal. But if it warms much past that untold amounts of frozen methane on the ocean bottoms will melt and rise releasing it into the air. If this happens it will bad news for everyone for a long time to come.

    We have to find a way to get it off the ocean floor and stop it from destroying the planet.



    posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:33 PM
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    Is that true? I hadn't thought about that. This is not sarcasm I really had not considered it.



    posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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    Usual Global Warming Alarmist BS. Glaciers are growing all over the world.

    www.iceagenow.com...

    * NORWAY
    Ålfotbreen Glacier
    Briksdalsbreen Glacier
    Nigardsbreen Glacier
    Hardangerjøkulen Glacier
    Hansebreen Glacier
    Jostefonn Glacier
    Engabreen glacier (The Engabreen glacier
    is the second largest glacier in Norway. It is a
    part (a glacial tongue) of the Svartisen glacier,
    which has steadily increased in mass since the
    1960s when heavier winter precipitation set in.)

    * Norway's glaciers growing at record pace. The face of the Briksdal glacier, an off-shoot of the largest glacier in Norway and mainland Europe, is growing by an average 7.2 inches (18 centimeters) per day. (From the Norwegian daily Bergens Tidende.) See www.sepp.org...


    Click here to see mass balance of Norwegian glaciers:
    www.nve.no...

    Choose "English" (at top of the page), choose "Water,"
    then "Hydrology," then "Glaciers and Snow" from the menu.
    You'll see a list of all significant glaciers in Norway.
    (Thanks to Leif-K. Hansen for this info.)
    * CANADA
    Helm Glacier
    Place Glacier
    Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain
    17 Nov 08 – The ice-covered peak of Yukon's soaring Mount Logan
    may be due for an official re-measurement after readings that suggest
    this country's superlative summit has experienced a growth spurt.
    See Glaciers growing on Canada’s tallest mountain

    * France
    Mt. Blanc
    * ECUADOR
    Antizana 15 Alpha Glacier

    * SWITZERLAND
    Silvretta Glacier

    * KIRGHIZTAN
    Abramov

    * RUSSIA
    Maali Glacier (This glacier is surging. See below)

    * GREENLAND See Greenland Icecap Growing Thicker
    Greenland glacier advancing 7.2 miles per year! The BBC recently ran
    a documentary, The Big Chill, saying that we could be on the verge of an ice
    age. Britain could be heading towards an Alaskan-type climate within a decade,
    say scientists, because the Gulf Stream is being gradually cut off. The Gulf
    Stream keeps temperatures unusually high for such a northerly latitude.

    One of Greenland’s largest glaciers has already doubled its rate of advance,
    moving forward at the rate of 12 kilometers (7.2 miles) per year. To see a
    transcript of the documentary,
    go to www.bbc.co.uk...

    * NEW ZEALAND
    All 48 glaciers in the Southern Alps have grown during the past year.
    The growth is at the head of the glaciers, high in the mountains, where they
    gained more ice than they lost. Noticeable growth should be seen at the
    foot of the Fox and Franz Josef glaciers within two to three years.(27 May 2003)
    Fox, Franz Josef glaciers defy trend - New Zealand's two best-known
    glaciers are still on the march - 31 Jan 07 - See Franz Josef Glacier

    * SOUTH AMERICA
    - Argentina's Perito Moreno Glacier (the largest glacier in Patagonia)
    is advancing at the rate of 7 feet per day. The 250 km² ice formation,
    30 km long, is one of 48 glaciers fed by the Southern Patagonian Ice
    Field. This ice field, located in the Andes system shared with Chile,
    is the world's third largest reserve of fresh water.
    en.wikipedia.org...

    - Chile's Pio XI Glacier (the largest glacier in the southern hemisphere)
    is also growing.

    * UNITED STATES
    - Colorado (scroll down to see AP article)
    - Washington (Mount St. Helens, Mt. Rainier* and Mt. Shuksan)
    (scroll down to see photo of Mt. Baker)
    - California (Mount Shasta - scroll down for info)
    - Montana (scroll down for info)
    - Glacier Peak, WA (scroll down for info
    - Alaska (Mt. McKinley and Hubbard).
    (scroll down to see article on Hubbard Glacier)

    *

    Antarctic ice grows to record levels
    13 Sep 07 - While the Antarctic Peninsula area has warmed
    in recent years and ice near it diminished during the Southern
    Hemisphere summer, the interior of Antarctica has been colder
    and ice elsewhere has been more extensive and longer lasting,
    See Antarctic ice grows to record levels
    .
    .
    *

    Global Warming? New Data Shows Ice Is Back
    19 Feb 08 - A Feb. 18 report in the London Daily Express showed that there is nearly
    a third more ice in Antarctica than usual, challenging the global warming crusaders and
    buttressing arguments of skeptics who deny that the world is undergoing global warming.
    See Most snow cover since 1966
    .



    posted on Dec, 21 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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    An update on this post by NASA




    More than 2 trillion tons of land ice in Greenland, Antarctica and Alaska have melted since 2003, according to new NASA satellite data that show the latest signs of what scientists say is global warming.


    Link




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