Why the venus project scares me (about the zeitgeist movement).

reply to post by difsjf


U dont need a government to fight opposing people, let the citizens fight who they wish, freedom and chaos are one and the same

Originally posted by italkyoulisten
reply to post by badmedia

 

see the question is, how credible is Zeitgeist to endorse such a movement? A call to revolt against the established centralized powers to.. establish a new one? I really enjoyed the first Zeitgeist movie, but the second is just.. I don't know how to describe it.

The question is more like this: "How can we protect our planet from greed so we can preserve resources for future generations?" The path humanity is currently on is not only counterproductive and unsustainable, it is leading to widespread devastation of the Planet like we cannot even imagine.

A key point about The Venus Project that I think you're missing is removing people from positions of power and instead making decisions based on the scientific method: For each question that arises, research the topic, form a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, and let the results make the decision.

Is the Venus Project a perfect solution? No, but it is exponentially better than our current social system.

There is no such thing as a "perfect solution", so we certainly shouldn't wait for one. The Venus Project is all about embracing change and constant learning. By the time it actually got implemented, we might come up with even newer, better ideas that we can't even imagine at this point. Those ideas would get integrated into The Venus Project for the betterment of everyone.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


Um, the reason why it's called the venus project is because the research facilities are in Venus, Florida LOL.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


Your claims really have no basis.
I suppose it is inevitable that people accuse the Venus Project and/or Zeitgeist movement of being the devil/anti-christ. Our ultimate goal is complete social redesign. People who have been conditioned to fear change in this society will obviously be resistant initially.

Your claims about the FreeMasons and Atlantis are quite simply conspiracy theories. The Free Masons do not control the world and there is certainly no evidence that they control the Venus Project.

As far as this Atlantis stuff goes, its ultimately irrelevant. Jacque's designs for cities in the sea are simply solutions. After a global survey of resource, we could find that we don't have enough land to provide for people comfortably. Building cities on and under the sea is a logical solution to this. Cities in the air are another solution at least theoretically. More importantly, in a resource based economy you will not be forced to live in a city on or under the sea. Ultimately, I think you will conclude that such a personal prohibition would inhibit personal growth in society. But it is of course your loss to assume.

There is a general sentiment among the comments on this page that the Venus Project is "unattainable."
First of all, this sentiment is unimportant. A critical point is the NECESSITY of the transition to an alternative system. 80% of the world's population lives on less than $10 per day. The global environment is deteriorating rapidly.
Second, I think anyone who has done sufficient reading about the resource based economy will find that our alternative models of society are so substantially preferable that they will want to work for the goal. I would guess that to a large extend this is the motivation of the millions of people that are now associated with the Zeitgeist Movement.
People really need to stop and ask themselves what it would take to create this. Its not as hard as it sounds. We have the internet, we have advanced technologies that are readily deployable once we convince people to mobilize the resources. We have supercomputer that years ago were able to beat the best human chess player in the world. We need a "Manhattan Project" of sorts where substantial intellectual and physical resources are moblilized to create the technologies such as cybernated decision-making computer networks and advanced robotic units to perform all of the labor in our economy.

Originally posted by badmedia
"The problem with the venus project is that it entails more centralization. Which is what creates the elite class and PTB in the first place. It is a system that removes authority from the people, and gives it to the elite."

This is a non sequitur. More centralization creates elitism in the monetary system because there are always incentives to obtain more resources and because people personally benefit from having control. This problem is resolved in the resource based economy through objective decision making based on the methods of science. In addition, I would just like to say that the extent to which people essentially ignore the absurd amount of elitism they tolerate daily.

"The only real system of change is one that decentralizes power to the individual. Which means power to the people, not to the elite."

There is no elite in a resource based economy. Everyone has access to everything equally.

"Social systems should never expand beyond that of the community level. They are great in a community, but bad bad bad when centralized under 1 larger power because then it's just being centralized more and more."

This simply demonstrates a lack of understanding about economics. I suggest you do a google search on "Economies of Scope" and "Economies of Scale." Quite simply, the population is too large at this point to move backward to sustaining our species through low-tech communities. We have to move forward and we have to apply technology to the greatest extent possible.

Which system is more likely to fail?

"A system with it's power source in 1 spot. Or a system with many sources spread out among individual spots?"

You are misidentifying the decision making capability in a society with power. They are not synonymous. People will have no incentive to take power over each other in the resource based economy. Power is essentially a monetary construction.

reply to post by italkyoulisten


the fact that the word venus means lucifer does not in any way mean the venus project is at all related to lucifer. in the movie its made quite clear that religion is WRONG. i dont mean to offend anyone but im intittled to my opinion just as much as any religious nut is when they tell me god is real. the point is the venus project may be the only thing that will save humanity from people like george bush

I believe the Venus Project should approach post-scarcity with a decentralized model. The key to efficiency is sutainability at the most local level possible. A colony on Mars would start with self-sufficient living units and grow out from there, not the other way around: big centers of production distributing goods and services.

The proposal given by Jacque Fresco is not only attainable but quite possible at this very moment in time. The problem is that it's an idea that people can't see happening or or even being possible because they have never tried or experienced it. A system without gov or money is a system of true freedom for everyone. There are two things that keep us from the goal as of right now tho.

1) fear.
2) the current system that (that will soon fall)