Anti-War=Pro-UBL

The Island was nowhere near defeated, the Emporer was going to have every one of the citizens, man woman and child, fight with whatever they had. The devastation to the Japanese population as well as the U.S. forces was going to be unimaginable. The bombs saved countless more lives than it took. Surely, a 41 year swabbie from Clinton Kountry is smart enough to figure that.
Guess not.
Sniffing to much fuel fumes and bending over for too many bars of soap, I'd guess.
Anyway, go give your hero a big ol' kiss, and hang out with him. When the USMC finally catches up with him, make sure to tell the Gunny that you're with Osama.

Riding around in a tub doesn't make you any smarter than the Zoomie or this dogface. As a matter of fact, the numerous soap incidence seem to have caused you to take glee in the killing of innocent Americans.

Originally posted by MT69
So...you're a disgruntled person for being made to mop the head for so many years. Otherwise why else would a so-called Navy person become a traitor???

My specialty was ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare) I have never mopped the head. I have chipped a lot of paint though. I once witnessed the shredding of a Jordan fishing vessel by 30 mm cannon fire. All aboard were killed. Seems that they did not understand English. How dare they! The incident was not reported by the international press.

So a foreign ship didn't stop getting too close to a Navy ship??? They didn't pay attention to the WARNINGS to stay away.

Hmmmm, have you ever heard of the USS Cole??? That is an example of the Navy trusting foreign ships. Oh, did you cheer for UBL's thugs in that attack???

Originally posted by MT69
So a foreign ship didn't stop getting too close to a Navy ship??? They didn't pay attention to the WARNINGS to stay away.

Hmmmm, have you ever heard of the USS Cole??? That is an example of the Navy trusting foreign ships. Oh, did you cheer for UBL's thugs in that attack???

WE were the foreign ship in their waters. THAT is of course the entire point. In any event, the hour is late and I tire of this banter. I enjoyed it. It seems that you cannot allow yourselves to respect my opinion. That is OK with me. I will try to respect yours anyway. Good night to you all and GOD BLESS AMERICA.

You will never get respect when you side with UBL.

I dare you to drag your butt to NYC and walk around with a sign stating "UBL is right and we're wrong."

To me you're just some screwed up person disgruntled at your less than stellar military career, but you like to use your time in the brig as some badge to talk about anything regarding the military. I'm sure your COs would disclaim you with ease.

MT69, I bet that you will be banned if you don't change.

It's not because someone has a different POV of your that he's pro-OBL.

[Edited on 22-1-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

Funny that a moderator TC is pretty much saying the same thing as me, but you say I'll get banned.

Oh, if you READ what Particle said...he supports UBL. Kinda strange for a so-called American to support UBL's attacks on Americans around the world.

I bet Particle doesn't talk about his BS for UBL around the city he hides in here in the USA...

Originally posted by MT69
Oh, if you READ what Particle said...he supports UBL. Kinda strange for a so-called American to support UBL's attacks on Americans around the world.

I would suggest that only blind, rabid ditto-heads may read Praticle's statement and deduce that he supports Osama Bin Laden.

Those of us striving for a more tempered lucidity understand the intent was to show a degree of understanding, placing perspective on Osama as compared to the concept of "patriot." It is indeed possible for some people (even this writer who experienced the WTC attack first-hand) to detach from the fervor of events and contemplate alternate scenarios. I'm certain General Washington was viewed with extreme disdain by British aristocracy that approaches our hatred of Osama (before the fever-pitch flames begin, in no way am I supporting, or implying compassion for Osama and his cause, merely pointing out the academic perspectives of history).

The resulting reactions were, sadly, very predictable.

I wonder when we grunting fools will advance beyond pathetic knee-jerk reactions to that which we disagree?

It figures you're about at the same thinking level as Particle. He says something stupid and you're right there to defend it.

He said we deserved 9/11 for sticking our nose in their business. You mean sticking our nose in Afghanistan helping muslims help kick the Soviets out of their country or when we kept sending food/aid to them after the war to feed the refugees???

What about when muslims in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait called on us to protect them from Saddam???

What about the muslims we helped from genocide in the former Yugoslavia???

Yes, you are right that helping muslims gave UBL and his scum carte blanche to attack the "EVIL" empire.

I propose that we pull back our military around the world once Iraq, terrorism and North Korea are under control.....then see what the rest of the world does to themselves without our help. Oh yeah, the last time we did that...WWII broke out.

Ah, yes. Your reaction was indeed as I expected. You and your offspring are not likely to progress beyond pathetic knee-jerk reactiveness.

Please explain how I defended what he said. I merely stated that I understood. Because I have not spewed visceral hate in Particle's direction is suddenly am in favor of helping Osama? (Hmm... are you dyslexic?)

Ah Kuwait. Are you aware that there is little if any mention of the US involvement in a Gulf War museum in Kuwait? The children we helped liberate will not know by whom or why.

Indeed it can be tough sitting here on the fence, being a centrist. The pointy pickets can hurt. But at least it's a higher vantage from which to fend off the rude ravings of the extremists on either side.

Yep, you ducked my questions about us helping muslims. Typical of wannabe elites....

Anti-War--Pro-UBL

Gentlemen, gentlemen, Lets agree to disagree without castigating each other for their various viewpoints, surely we are more adult then that. And in my reading of the posts contained herein I felt that both sides have some merit. And I am not ashamed to state that my position is to contain and change the current government of Iraq. But I also say that my ideas as to HOW to accomplish that task appear to be at odds as to what is currently being planned. Finally, I am proud to have served my country with 6 years + of military service. And I found no discrepancy in the explanation
regarding "security clearances" as was posted here. And in closing, please note my age of 60+ years. Lets keep our manners and common courtesy in the forefront.

USAFSS-SP

Originally posted by Winston Smith

Originally posted by MT69
Oh, if you READ what Particle said...he supports UBL. Kinda strange for a so-called American to support UBL's attacks on Americans around the world.

I would suggest that only blind, rabid ditto-heads may read Praticle's statement and deduce that he supports Osama Bin Laden.

Those of us striving for a more tempered lucidity understand the intent was to show a degree of understanding, placing perspective on Osama as compared to the concept of "patriot." It is indeed possible for some people (even this writer who experienced the WTC attack first-hand) to detach from the fervor of events and contemplate alternate scenarios. I'm certain General Washington was viewed with extreme disdain by British aristocracy that approaches our hatred of Osama (before the fever-pitch flames begin, in no way am I supporting, or implying compassion for Osama and his cause, merely pointing out the academic perspectives of history).

The resulting reactions were, sadly, very predictable.

I wonder when we grunting fools will advance beyond pathetic knee-jerk reactions to that which we disagree?

Winston - thank you for putting my sentiments in print before I got to do it.
I think that the subject is one that leap frogs the build up stages in going from brush burn to full blown inferno.
Though I do marvel at the fervor that others apply and the checking of reason at the door, yet NY'er me can still reason.
To be a warrior or to bring war, is to understand why your opponent fights, not to condone it, not to sympathize, just understand.....how else can you defeat them? Particle simply put it out to air. There is an African proverb that says "Until the lions have their scribe, the tale of the hunt will always be told by the hunter". It applies well to how some trivialize the choice to die by our opposition.
Also, how anyone holding of all the required chromosomes can honestly spout the falsehood that the US government has 'helped' Muslim state for purely altruistic reasons is beyond me. US charities? Absolutely. The government? Not unless we had something coming on the backend.

Originally posted by MT69
Yep, you ducked my questions about us helping muslims. Typical of wannabe elites....

If you require absolute satisfaction to the answering of each of your questions, then I would suggest that an online discussion forum is not for you.

I believe I responded to the nature of your post and made my position clear... without the tedium of responding to every point presented by a simpleton.

Gentlemen:

Please allow me to clarify. I do not condone the actions of OBL. I simply understand him. I could never approve of the killing of innocence. I am capable however, of standing in his sandals. I have been to many countries and talked with the people of those cultures. The fact is that America is dispised throughout the world.

Many consider us to be greedy arrogant pigs who will stop at nothing to get what we want. In many eyes, there are no "innocent" Americans. American policies are responsible for the deaths of millions of human beings every year. Most of us are kept in the dark and fed lies and half truths in order to bolster our false sense of self-righteousness.

To the rest of the world, American citizens are directly responsible for the sins of our government because we elect our representatives. We allow a war-monger to remain in power therefore we are all war-mongers.

I am proud to be an American of the old code. I am saddened and sickened by the current state of affairs in my country. I didn't vote for it. I damn sure don't approve of it. There is nothing I would love more than to see it fall. I am absolutely sure the current police state we live in was never envisioned by our founding fathers.

The soviet union collapsed because their government lost the ability to support its citizens. If America continues along its current path, we will soon fall from power as well. Perhaps it will be for the best. ---Peace---

[Edited on 1-23-03 by Particle]

Sorry I do not support the US on this war.
But also I am not on Bin Laden's side. I dislike the guy for his views.

Saddam Hussein is not an angel and condemn what he has done in the past.

Consider though that America has help these guys in the past with weapons.

It is funny, when America starts a war or kills someone, they call it self defence, doing the country proud, but if others kill americans they get labelled as terrorists.

You know, the truth is not weapons of mass destruction, it is just a decoy for something deeper and obscure. If there is someone with biggest arsenal of weapons, it is the US. Why don't we have inspectors there?

You do not start a war on your own considering you are a full participating member of a world org. War is always a bad choice, because people get killed.

You are generalising on people. Just because I do not agree with you I am labelled a terrorist, a friend of Bin LAden. That's a f..n joke.

Get real

I'm not so old but I do remember somethings about the first Gulfwar and as I recall right the purpose of the war was to get Iraq out of Kuwait and to get Saddam out of Iraq...

But what I still don't know is WHY THE HELL DIDN'T DADDY BUSH FINISH WHAT HE STARTED???

Or did he wanna leave a "playground" open to test new military devices?

Originally posted by MT69
Funny that a moderator TC is pretty much saying the same thing as me, but you say I'll get banned.

My meaning was : be a little bit less agressive. Ok ?

Particle - Nice try to cover your dirty tracks here, but I'm not buying it.

Funny that you come back with this plea to ignore your previous posts AFTER you were exposed as a traitor cheering for terrorists who killed Americans on 9/11, the USS Cole, etc...

Oh yeah....UCMJ...think about it.

Originally posted by MT69
The Iraqis can't leave their country as easily as Saudis because Saddam has the place locked down.

We had an open door policy for Saudis, thus helping them carry out their plans. I doubt a group of Iraqis could've gained access to the US like the Saudis who are our "so-called" friends.

Also, Saddam has maintained a tight ship regarding radical muslims in his country, thus less Iraqis running off with OBL.

The Iraqi Govt has ties to terrorists, the world will learn more about Iraqi intelligence helping the 9/11 terrorists once Saddam is gone.

"Fail"...I never get to use that expression.

This thread was an interesting walk down memory lane. I actually remember people making these arguments...if you're not with us, your against us...we have to do it for you to see how right we are...etc.

I'm not bumping this to be a nuisance or just for nostalgia's sake. I'm doing it because ...broken record... Here we are once again, contemplating more war(s) ten years on... Will there be an anti-war movement like in 2003? Will people be labeled communists (whew, get that epitaph off the shelf and dust it off...) for being against the war?

Edit: more importantly, have we learned anything since Iraq began?