To those who have socialized health care

What is your opinion on it? I have been on many threads where those who live in countries with socialized health care have voiced their opinions, and I wanted to create a thread that would be a comprehensive reference guide for the opinions of those people.

I, personally, am for socializing health care in the U.S. Here's a great reference guide for myths about how great our health care system is currently:

The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

# Why doesn’t the United States have universal health care as a right of citizenship? The United States is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

One of the biggest reasons the U.S. isn't a leader in any field anymore: there is too much of a "conservative" movement who is afraid of progress.

This is not new in America.

1.


2. Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

* Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

* Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

* Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

* Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

* Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

* Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation

Nothing new here. Of course, these statistics are dragged down by the majority of poor people in this country. Pfft, redistribution of wealth.

News flash, the wealth was already "redistributed", and it was all into a small pool at the top.

3. Myth Two: Universal Health Care Would Be Too Expensive

* Fact One: The United States spends at least 40% more per capita on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health care

* Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

* Fact Three: State studies by Massachusetts and Connecticut have shown that single payer universal health care would save 1 to 2 Billion dollars per year from the total medical expenses in those states despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits

* Fact Four: The costs of health care in Canada as a % of GNP, which were identical to the United States when Canada changed to a single payer, universal health care system in 1971, have increased at a rate much lower than the United States, despite the US economy being much stronger than Canada’s.

* Conclusion: Single payer universal health care costs would be lower than the current US system due to lower administrative costs. The United States spends 50 to 100% more on administration than single payer systems. By lowering these administrative costs the United States would have the ability to provide universal health care, without managed care, increase benefits and still save money

No one will believe this in America until they see it. Progress always gets held back by the same types of people who forced Galileo to repent.

The list goes on, but I don't want to preach the choir. Those who don't believe socialized health care would be beneficial would skip over it all anyway.

So, all of you who currently live in one of those countries who aren't afraid of progress:

Do you currently enjoy your universal health care, or are you jealous of ours and would like to switch back to privatized?

Here in Britain we have 'National Insurance'.

Social security, if you prefer.

Whereby anybody earning over a certain amount of money has a small amount taken seperate to their tax (it has a lower threshold than tax) to be contributed.
This pays for free healthcare for everyone (except certain Dental treatments and optical treatments), as well as being the pot for unemployment benefits, state pensions for anyone who needs it, and sickness benefits so that those unable to work through illness and injury can still have a half decent quality of life.

Its great

reply to post by selfisolated


So you don't feel that you have sub-par health care or extraordinary long lines? Do you feel that you pay an unreasonable amount of taxes to sustain all of this?

Thanks for responding to all this.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

National Insurance contributions aren't really that big a dent in wages, as far as I've experienced.
The queues are sometimes long, and the doctors can be annoying, but from what I've heard private healthcare is only better in that the waiting lists are shorter and you can see the doctor for more time.

But its that expensive it seems far better to mere mortals who live week by week to stick with the NHS.
They've sorted me out every time theres been something wrong with me.

My only complaint about it is the amount of focus they now put on 'targets' and 'management'.. Doctors should answer to their patients, not some guy upstairs who knows whatever money his department has left at the end of the year can be quietly slipped into his wallet.

Bit of a con, NI is used for everything now, but was the bedrock of the NHS. I think you Americans have to understand that instead of demanding our treatment at the exact moment we want, we British invented the queue, and are happy to queue fairly in them. Hence our NHS is not appalling, just appallingly slow, but you've got to wait your turn.

Smiley faces at the US.......

Originally posted by Irish M1ck

So you don't feel that you have sub-par health care or extraordinary long lines? Do you feel that you pay an unreasonable amount of taxes to sustain all of this?

Thanks for responding to all this.

Im not 100% sure exactly how it works in the UK but in Ireland, if you are below a certain earning threshold (approx $500 per week), you will get free healthcare which is funded through the social taxes that you pay if you are earning above the same amount.

There are different cutoff levels for services you can receive depending on your income but most that are in the higher earning brackets have some sort of health insurance.

TBH, those with health insurance are given a sort of 'unspoken' priority over those without. Also, those with health insurance can use private clinics that get quicker results.

The system works because it is both fair and unfair to those who are receiving the free care AND for those who are paying for it.

TBH, those with health insurance are given a sort of 'unspoken' priority over those without.

That is less so in the UK, but.......

Also, those with health insurance can use private clinics that get quicker results.

Of course, these people pay private on top of their taxes? The Tories in 2001 in UK wanted to rebate private insurance, which would have been a breaking a social contract. You get your basic, if you go elsewhere, that is more in the pot for the rest of us...........

This is for people unfamiliar with Universal Healthcare systems, not an EU infight. I hope.

I live in Canada more specifically in Ontario, where we have OHIP(Ontario Health Insurance Plan).

It is very socialistic in that everyone is treated exactly the same. However provincially the budget is tanking, many hospitals have shut down entire wings because the province cannot afford to pay/hire enough health care workers. Which then leads to extreme wait times, in the ER and also neccessary surgery scheduling.

Many Canadians(those who can afford it) have headed south for various treatments because they cannot wait the alloted time given for their required procedures.

There is much discussion here lately of bringing in a new tiered system. This would allow people with the cash to jump ahead in the line. Some would say our health care system is tanking fast.

So despite what some people may think, Canada is not all roses. But it is certainly not third world.

I'm from the UK and think the NHS is great. Ive been in hospital 4 times with broken bones i was seen straight away, x -rayed and plastered within an hour

sure for other operations people need to wait and if you want to see a GP for a sore throat its likely you will wait a week or more to get an appointment. Some doctors surgeries do "emrgency" sessions where you can walk in at 8am and get seen to.

If you work you will pay for any prescriptions ususally about $20 but they are free if your unemployed/student/low income.

As for taxes as another poster said the "national insurance" that comes off your wage is very small but things like cigarettes & fuel are heavily taxed to raise funds. But i would never think of abolishing the NHS if you ever need medical care everyone can get access to a decent level there.





[edit on 18-11-2008 by yeti101]

Fact Two: Federal studies by the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting office show that single payer universal health care would save 100 to 200 Billion dollars per year despite covering all the uninsured and increasing health care benefits.

You should take fact two off the list. These two offices are a joke. Just look at the great estimates they give to our government.

Actually i personally use the benefits of this system extremely rare, but i will never agree to give it up. Even though i pay for it using it or not. Cost is reasonable and it gives you great deal of security for old age/ accidents. It has its minuses too, but pluses out-weight it. I think that you guys should press the government to apply it. Costs are high, yes. Air carriers also are expensive though. Quality is variable - but finding a good doctor is not a problem. Lines are long - to sit for half an hour twice in a decade is ok with me. Bureaucratic paper runs are of course problem, still not deadly. If there is a will, there is a way.

reply to post by PowerSlave


PowerSlave, remember that each province maintains it's own HealthCare system, what happens in Ontario doesn't reflect all of Canada, I would agree that it is not perfect but it has never let me or my family down.

Thanks for all of you who are contributing. Many in America are scared to death of socialized health care - for whatever reasons. If you turn on your local talk radio, they will say that our economy will be ruined, health care will be terrible, and the lines will be so long that you'll die of the disease before you get treatment.

Not long ago, a thread was posted about our state of Hawaii failing at implementing a form of socialized health care. It was thrown around as proof that the system is impossible to sustain.

To me, it is hard to understand why so many in our country fail to examine other economic systems. We seem to be hell bent on staying 100% true to our capitalistic founding that we are falling behind the curve.


A taste of our life
Knowing your situation, I am curious as to how you feel about many in our situation. I'll give you a big "for instance":

I, for instance, am a student. I make decent money, but I cannot afford health insurance. It's funny because I could be contributing money towards health insurance, but the cost is so high I cannot afford it at all, so I pay nothing towards the system.

However, if I get hurt and my life is at risk, hospitals are forced to work on me until I am stabilized. At this point, I am released with hefty bills and possibly in debt for years to come (which could obviously affect my ability to finish school and/or get a job).

This seems to be a common situation for those who are in their late teens to early twenties. Anyone in the upper-lower class or lower-middle class. All others either have insurance, or use government subsidized programs (driving the price up so that the middle can't afford it).

So, that's a day in the life of a struggling American. Keep the information flow up! It's greatly appreciated!

reply to post by Irish M1ck


well i think its a real shame for a country that produces so much wealth theres no free health care for its people. Im from the UK but i am entitled to free health care anywhere in the EU! and i actually used it in holland when i was in amsterdam ( long story it was a Sunday and no chemists open ended up at a hospital). Amazing! in a foreign country and getting free health care like that.

I think socially america is falling behind the curve. Maternity programs, college fees, affordable health care accepted indicators of how socially advanced a nation is. All worse in the states than they are in europe.

Theres many great things about america but at the same time i think its capitalism gone mad.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by yeti101]

given the choice between socialised and non i'll go for socialised every time. private companies always opperate to make a profit, how they make it is a side issue. i would not be particularly excited about going into any healthcare system where my care was a secondary concern.