Self sufficient on Sugar and Salt- how to?

Hello fellow survivalists!

This is a tricky one that you might help me out with:

In my plans for the "final escape", I have been looking on locations in western Sweden, close to the norwegian border.
Final location is yet not disclosed, but somewhere around here, so before answering my question I would like you to study the climate and ecosystem of the area.

I have been going through all my plans, but still two things conserning food is a big to me.

First one is sugar.
I guess I could grow Sugar Beets there, but how do I make regular sugar out of the beets without having to constuct some sort of industrial complex?
I mean, people have been doing that since the 1700's so it should be fairly simple.

Second one is much harder; salt.
I don't even know where to begin handling that project.
Any ideas?

Don't give me the regular "bulk up on..." becuase this is supposed to be a self-sufficient solution that would work for as long as possible, hopefully the rest of my earthly existance.

Thankful for sereious responses.

reply to post by Raud


You could always milk me I eat too much sugar and salt. And now for a serious reply, we have survived thousands of years without suger or salt. Aslong as you eat plenty of fruit you get your glucose. We need Na en Cl, so find other food sources that contain these elements. If you need to preserve food, then smoke it or put it underneath a layer of fet and store it in a cool place.

Just check out how your Scandinavian ancestors used to live.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by QueenofWeird]

how is that escaping if you're telling the world where it is you're going.

and why the hell do you want to stock up on sugar???

salt.. i understand.

sugar??


do you mean as a basic sustenance.. like if you're completely out of everything.. sugar for basic carbs?

or do you just like sugar alot.

it's really bad for you, you know... leeches minerals from your system.. calcium especially.
why not create underground greenhouses and just grow tons of spinach broccoli and other vegetables high in vitamins and minerals and screw the sugar hording.

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Reply to QueenofWeird

Yes, preservation thorugh smoking is good. That is already part of my plan.

Sugar I want because I want! Besides, if it is possible to grow sugar beets and extraxt sugar so that I can make booze and stuff, why the hell not? Beinga survivalist is all about how to mimic ordinary life without the need of the outside world. Just having some sugar will very much improve the living standard.

What kind of food sources would contain Cl then?
I heard some pretty gruesome stories from the war in the Balkans what happens if you don't get salt. So I think I would like to have that.

Originally posted by QueenofWeird
Just check out how your Scandinavian ancestors used to live.

They were miserable.

Originally posted by prevenge
how is that escaping if you're telling the world where it is you're going.

If you read the post carefully, you will see that I say somewhere in that area. Besides, as you can see I there is a small town there so I will not be living in that exact location. What I mean is that the living conditions will be similar to the ones in that area. Get it?

and why the hell do you want to stock up on sugar???

salt.. i understand.

sugar??

I don't want to stock up on it, I want to be able to extract it from natures own reserve.

do you mean as a basic sustenance.. like if you're completely out of everything.. sugar for basic carbs?

or do you just like sugar alot.

it's really bad for you, you know... leeches minerals from your system.. calcium especially.
why not create underground greenhouses and just grow tons of spinach broccoli and other vegetables high in vitamins and minerals and screw the sugar hording.

The greenhouse will most probably not be underground. But there will be lots of broccoli and cabbage of different sorts. And mango! And avocado! Hehehe, it will rule...
But sugar is nice quick energy and gives a great variety to your diet serving as a spice. And you can easily make some booze from it.

but make one underground with hydroponics so you can grow in the winter too.


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Reply to Prevenge

I see where your coming from but I still would think that would be unneccessary. Green cabbage is harvested during winter. Most types of cabbage can easily be stored all winter. Besides, I will depend on fishing as main source of food during that grim period. Nuts and different types of roots will also provide me with food.

But if I can fully live out my dream, a solar powered home will improve the standards of living drastically.

a trick for salt, Lick a few rocks...

Many rock formations contain salt and other minerals we require to
survive.

So when making soups or stew's, or cooking veggies, throw some rocks in (after testing with no side effects) should boil out some salt and other minerals in the cooking process.

Do a search of the area as to what rocks are there, then look them up online
and see what properties they have.

Many animals get by by licking rocks in the winter.

Reply to severdsoul

Licking rocks you say...
Doesn't sound very nice, but I guess as a final resort...
But I would like to be able to refine and have a bag of it. If I was living close to salty waters there would be less of a problem, but in this case, sweet water is much more preferable. Besides the salt issue that is.

Originally posted by Raud
how do I make regular sugar out of the beets without having to constuct some sort of industrial complex?

This wiki page describes the industrial process of creating sugar in crystalline form, but also mentions an easier and simpler process that gives a raw sucrose syrup that would probably be better for you than refined white sugar crystals

Sugar beet syrup

An unrefined sugary syrup can be produced directly from sugar beet. This thick, dark syrup is produced by cooking shredded sugar beet for several hours, then pressing the resulting sugar beet mash and concentrating the juice produced until it has the consistency similar to that of honey. No other ingredients are used. In Germany, particularly the Rhineland area, this sugar beet syrup (called Zuckerrüben-Sirup in German) is used as a spread for sandwiches, as well as for sweetening sauces, cakes and desserts.

Sugar should be fairly easy... sugar beats like you said, maple syrup... there are lots of sweet alternatives.

Salt though I don't know if there are many simple solutions. I wouldn't recommend boiling rocks as they might explode I think... at least if you put wet beach rocks by a fire they will explode.

reply to post by Raud


Dont go for sugar beets, go for sugar cane in a greenhouse, salt you can evapourate from sea water.

A guy on another forum is from Sundesvall and he condense sea water for salt to make salt licks for his few cattle and reindeer.

Reply to citizen smith

That's the stuff!
I kiss you Mr. Smith!

Ok, so problem one solved!

Reply to Northern Raider

I was thinking about the sugar cane, but it is far more easy for me to lay my hands on some beets. Besides, I need all the space in my greenhouse for other stuff like mango...and avocado!

A guy having reindeers in Sundsvall, haha, priceless...
Wouldn't mind having some reindeers around though. They eat a very nutritious kind of lichen that humans can't digest. So when you slaughter one of those you get both lots of great meat and the stomach contents are already digested and a great source of vitamine C during wintertime.

But vapourising water to make salt is only possible if you have salt water at hand. If you look at the location I've chosen you will see that there is only sweet water there!

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Raud]

There was a series of books called "Firefox" that can tell you how to do almost anything our backwoods ancestors did, like making moonshine and such. If one was so inclined to learn, that is where I would start.

en.wikipedia.org...

sorry but how much salt do you plan on using a week ,month ,year,is it really high where you are. you can stock its does have a long shelve life.and you can trade booze for it .we get granulated 50 pounds at a time for less then 10 dollors.

Reply to Tinman67

Thanks for the tip! I will look into it.
My mother also has a book on how to create an entire farm from scatch and with that I mean how to make your own bricks to build with.
But it does not mention salt production.

Reply to solomamkkane

Initially I will start with a nice big bag of it, but I must know how to renew my stocks. When I mean "self sufficient" I mean exactly that. I am prepared to live alone for the rest of my life. It is not what I want to do, but I must accept the possibility of total isolation- forever.

How much salt I will consume? To be perfectly honest, I don't know. But as long as I know how to get some more, I won't worry about it.

Originally posted by Northern Raider
Dont go for sugar beets, go for sugar cane in a greenhouse, salt you can evapourate from sea water.

A few thoughts:

The beet plant would be better suited to harsh northern Norwegian climates and could be grown outside under frames (looking at the map link, the location posted in the OP seems to be far further north than aberdeen) so would require less care and attention than greenhouse grown cane which may need additional climatic controls and heating, making the crop more labour and energy intensive.

Salt could be gotten from collected and dried edible seaweeds such as Kelp, whether extracted by boiling and crystallising out from the water, or by direct addition to soups and stews and would add the contained sea-salt (and extra minerals and vitamins) to the dish.

Extra benefits are that seaweed is a free and abundant resource and overlooked by most people as a foodstuff, and could be dried for longterm storage...not forgetting that it would make an excellent fertiliser for crops too


[edit on 16-11-2008 by citizen smith]

reply to post by Tinman67

The title of the books are Foxfire, I have the first 5 volumes.

These are a great resource.

reply to post by waterdoctor


The Foxfire books are here... along with many other useful books
www.librum.us...

I have 2 PDFs of the first two Foxfires before they went to the weird new format. That site used to have a lot more good books that seem to be missing now... oh well.

The only thing is Foxfire can fall short in some places, a lot of stuff is like farmer's almanac.. a lot of old wives tales, bad medicine, bad science...

[edit on 11/16/2008 by Yarcofin]

Do Sugar Maple trees grow in your chosen area ?
If so, "tap" a few and learn how to make the syrup.