Is Judeo-Christian/Muslim Mythology the root of societal ills?

Well, if your point is that human beings take a philosophy and then skew it in their own minds using a selfish form of "reason" (justification) then I would say yes.

If your point is that this selfish "justification" of a philosophy has some short term and longer terms negative effects upon the planet and upon humanity, then I would say, "Yes it does."

However if your point is that there is something unique to the core message of the Abrahamic religions that make them more dangerous than any other than I would have to say "no, there isnt."

What makes those "core philosophies" so readily used for justification is the fact that they were written down and perpetuated by groups of people more interested in the "justification" than the core philosophy itself, and that this has been the case nearly since the beginning of the written tradition for this.

In your example, for instance, in the Ten Commandments, God says not to worhip idols before "him." And in fact, the written texts themselves are worshiped as idols. They (dead nonliving things) have been substituted for the living "God." This is not a flaw with the commandments themselves, but with the people who read them.

This mistaking the writings about ones God, or Messiah, or Deity, for the direction of the God et al, in real time, is not limited to the Abrahamic traditions, but can be found in all of them. Jesus went to great lengths to warn about blindly following tradition and the pharisees, but still, after his death, he himself was turned into an idol to be believed in rather than a style of living in which to engage in.

As I said in earlier posts, this is reflective of the collective ability to understand these philosophies in a real way, rather than being reflective of the core philosophies themselves. Do human beings regularly take spiritual philosophies and misunderstand them? Yes. Are the Abrahamic religions currently the most widely spread misunderstood spiritual philosophies? Yes. Were there elements in the way they were written down and disseminated that predisposed these religions to becoming dominant? Yes.

Is this necessarily a bad thing in the long view? I say no. I say that there are elements of the core philosophy itself that have survived the corrupting influence of the men who have written and disseminated these philosophies. And that, despite the fact that the greater portion of the collective understanding is still transfixed with the material world, and thus "idolizes" the spiritual, there are pockets of understanding always in the collective consciousness that are aware of the transcendent nature of this spiritual understanding. And I argue that these pockets have become rather widely spread throughout the world in part due to the self interested corrupters of this philosophy, and it is having its positive impact regardless of their intentions, on the collective understanding.

Again, I say you have to look past your own self imposed time frame to see that while this seems negative in spots (segments of time) that there is an underlying movement of consciousness that is positively impacted not by the intentions of those who seek to use spiritual philosophy for their own gain, but despite them. These selfish and corrupt individuals have to keep large swaths of the core philosophy in place or it loses its appeal to the collective mind. They lace it with self interest, but the core philosophy is intact, and slowly, it is seeping into the collective consciousness.

You have to be willing to take the time to sift what is the core philosophy from what men have added for selfish reasons. Once you get to the core message, you find that the Abrahamic traditions are not so different from the Eastern ones, especially the teachings of Jesus.

Think about how we do gene therapy. We insert DNA into a "host" a virus or something of that sort, that can easily "infect" the body. The virus is not the point. The DNA is. The virus is the mechanism by which infection is assured.

Buddhism was the same spiritual DNA as the message of Jesus. It had a piss poor infectious agent. It did not manage to infect the body of humanity in a way sufficient to change the collective understanding. The Abrahamic traditions, on the other hand, had a sufficiently ruthless means of spreading the infection throughout humanity, and the spiritual DNA is widely spread throughout the "body." All that remains is for the DNA to become "activated" and the message to become widely understood, and the viral "host" to become irrelevant.

I would argue that it is at that point, when the viral host is discarded, that one can make a reasonable judgment whether or not the choice of the "host" was a poor one or not. It seems to me the "Divine" for lack of a better term sent down the same core philosophy into many "hosts" nearly at the same time. (historically speaking, within several hundred years) and that one emerged as being more infectious than the others. Clearly, this more virulent host has caused a fever, and some other side effects, but if the DNA activates and cures the underlying condition at some point, (Maya, original sin, choose your term for the ailment) the side effects will be worth the price.

well gosh ,I agree with the infection analogy especially concerning Judaism?Islam /Christianity,I could maybe throw in Fascism,and Communism

Trouble with that is it don't think that the message is much worth transmitting ,these systems all have the us against everyone else ,characteristic that continues to keep the world in an endless cycle of culling the "other"

Strange infection that kills not the host but the uninfected

I can't think of a religion that doesn't excluded all who are uninitiated,and condemn them to temporal and eternal deaths.

So while it may not technically be a flaw ,I'm going to say it prevents movement to another way if all nonmembers are killed and persecuted for their otherness.

Sorry illusionsaregrander ,but I think the ONE will be able to implement 'THE CHANGE' that's why Jesus failed ,he got killed before he could make the change universal to the 'spiritual genome'

If you buy that Jesus ever existed but anyway that's my analogy

I am not going get into the deductive reasoning behind how one looks at the judeo-christian/Muslim beliefs because the argument would go in circles. What I will say is that all "belief systems" cannot be generalized to define them. one's subjective understanding of their Belief book, fable, myth what every you want to call it, pertains only to the person interpreting it. Now, no one go off by stating what a specific book is supposed to mean this or by using a general population to define it for you. After reading the OP, I don't know how you are drawing these conclusions

- you see, the ills that exist in the bible you read aren't being interpreted that way in most modern churches why?
do you think that ... its because its not true? obviously not, because through your deductive reasoning, the bible reveals many social ills, - so you begin connect the dots, - western society is dominated by this dogma, yet what they are reading is completely contradicting and immoral - thus western cultures immoral and contradicting acts most likely came from this book that is acting as a moral compass. - do you see whats wrong here..its interpretation, anyone can disprove what you are saying with interpretation, because the Bible is personal to all who read it for themselves, and not everyone else. do you think that pastors in sermons don't get in arguments over what passage means what in churches?
To stay on topic - I'll give you an example of the reason I must disagree with your notion of these beliefs being the root of social ills (in the west)

If I am in the woods and I have a map of the area with no directional legend,(magnetic north) and I get lost, is it the maps fault i'm lost? I can choose another map, or no map at all and find myself in the same situation - lost. Just because the majority of people in the west used a map doesn't mean it was the reason why they were lost.

(If you are wondering why the map had no directional legend, it was to represent interpretation.)

with all due respect - I understood your real position of this thread. your qoute - "mythology instills a value system that is immoral".

Either we are the ruler's of our morality or ancient texts of our interpretation of what Gods said it is. I'm afraid there are only 2 options.

There are people of any belief-system or non-belief-system who are friendly and honest vs. those who are hate-and-fear filled. We filter information according to our general inner emotions and can make something good/bad out of anything (imo).

reply to post by solomons path


Kaneh Bosm - The Hidden Story of Cannabis in the Old Testament:

www.cannabisculture.com...

THEN GOD SAID, I GIVE YOU EVERY SEED-BEARING
PLANT ON THE FACE OF THE WHOLE
EARTH, AND EVERY TREE THAT
HAS FRUIT IN IT."
GENESIS 1:29-30

I feel this is one of the reasons we are "still" being subjected to the "idiocy" of memes and and other destructive habits.

The "higher-ups" have access to these "mind altering" drugs which we have been "prohibited" from using. By using them, they are following the "vision" they are given.

Why the hell else do they want to keep the sh!t (coc aine) being produced in Afghanistan??

Listen to George Green, He talks about the habits of the "elite":

video.google.com...

Start Listening to around the 6:45 or 7:00 Mark.

Would be interested to hear your feedback on this.


~TwistedPair~

Interesting..

As someone who believes in Jesus and what he TRULY taught, I have to say that I somewhat agree. I have been a critic of the Abrahamic religions for quite some time.

Christianity, in particular, has been manipulated in such a way that its true value and meaning has been lost. With that being said, I will address the topic at hand.

Now, before I delve into the values of the Abrahmic religions, I think it pertinent for me to take some time to mention what I think is the real cause of societal ills. After all, I would have to be intellectually dishonest not to do so.

When I look at the world today, I find gross materialism,namely Cartesian philosophy, as the root cause of societal ills. We have moved from spirituality to being frivolous. We put more worth upon material gain than human life.

Rene Decartes, the man of western thought, has single handedly caused more problems than what is generally accepted. While Descartes did not deny the existence of God, or the spiritual for that matter, he basically asserted that it wasn't important.

Anytime you have a society based on greed, lust and avarice, you're going to have problems. It is really that simple. There is no need to belabor the point. It is obvious.

Now, with that being said, let me address your thesis.

If one looks at the history of the Abrahamic religions, it is obvious that it is littered with war, violence and vengence. Which is interesting given the fact, particularly in regards to Christianity, that their God declares that vengence is his.

The values of today are a mix of gross materialism and Abrahamic philosophy. When you mix two ideologies which are diametrically opposed, you develop a confused society. (A new Babylon?)

In all reality, today's ills cannot be placed solely on one thing. While Christianity and Islam are certainly major factors, we are so spiritually devoid, I'm not sure as to how much it really influences anything. Materialism seems to be a much larger culprit than any particular religion.

Everyone is trying to own the prettiest car, biggest house, best job, nicest clothes, et cetera. How is that the fault of any religion or spirituality? I mean, hell, we have a generation of kids parctically rearing itself because mom and dad are trying to own the 500,000 dollar home and Escalade. It's sad, really.








[edit on 20-11-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


well Hey There Speakerof Truth ,you speak the truth


I would add, not because your post needs it , but because I' want to participate

that the 'Religion is greed, materialism ,and callous disregard for others, in this religion the cardinal sin is need ,if you are not able to pay your bills ,oh well you lose,if you get and get fired ,oh well you lose, car accident permanently disabled ? God doesn't care about you,the obvious mark of Cain is any circumstance that separates you from the river of Divine over consumption

I say this because right now on the interwbz there is a lot of talk about socialism and Ayn Rand, all of it never bringing up the elephant in the room that is there is always money for everything ,that involves senseless expenditures of lives and resources but any thought that some one should be aided in their time of need will be met the such a a level of disgust that it could only be equaled by a cry of HERESY!

My view on this is that religion is not the real problem here. Its the administrators of these religions that mostly are.
I was put into catholic school and taught to read and then was explained what their version was of what that said, even though i could read it myself and deduce what it was. Religious teachers today teach in a way that is not open to interpretation, its interpreted already and your spoon-fed the "truth" as it were.

These dogmatic views cannot be questioned, or you are shunned. Ive seen some people destroyed by religious zealots who claim to be good people, but when they think your evil in any way they will go out of their way to destroy your life with blind faith and zealousness.

The way religion is preached is all about a higher power, not a higher conciousness. We are taught we are imperfect and filled with sin and must bow down blindly to a higher power to seek forgiveness from our sins. Its not necessarily taught philosophically.

Its never really instilled in people, people just fear it for no reason other then what a man told us to be true.

Since we are fed half truths or not given the whole story, one must seek the truth on their own or just believe whats already there. There is no way to really "study" the bible with others and make a difference with a finding, its already well established "truths" your fighting, and the battle seems not worth fighting.

The problem is how religion has been served to everyone. The problem is the divisive nature of these religious leaders that stop us from finding the real truth. The vatican holds secrets, the jews hold secrets, the muslims hold secrets, its all well known or at least if not at all factual is assumed by many.

Until the religious leaders get over themselves, get over their ideals and seek truth for what it really is, not what we interpret it as, we will be in constant turmoil.

The psychology of one man is no different, unresolved issues cause turmoil in any man, woman or child. It causes you to do destructive things. Mans collective concious is just reacting to the damage all our leaders have so far caused it. In order to heal, we must break the habits of the past, break the circle of errors, and move forward to enlightenment.

reply to post by solomons path


No, it's literalism and plain ol' passion. These afflict all religions. There is always an esoteric/exoteric divide in religions. Campbell said it was basically a literary problem. Misreading of the myth. But they do that all over the place.

Christianity is a result of the same laws that govern the evolution of all religions. No use blaming the religion. Better to try to understand the laws.

"For, just as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods, there has been a history, an evolution, governed by laws. To show forth such laws is the proper aim of science. Moreover, just as our science of biology came to maturity only when it dared to reckon man among the beasts, so will that of mythology only when God is reckoned among the gods." -Joseph Campbell

Christianity can be salvaged, but only through integrating comparative mythology, comparative religion, and comparative mysticism. Campbell is a good start but not enough.

"The Christian of the future will be a mystic or he will not exist." -Karl Rahner

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Student X]