Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

So are you saying we should still go around and kill every boy and girl that's having intercourse?

I never said that there are contradictions in the bible, I'm just saying that the old testament really is a history book which explains just about everything you wrote in the first part. Who, what, why and how.

I think about it like this, if all you had was what you knew in your head and you had to tell someone who's never heard about God, about God, what would you tell that person? The message of the gospel and revelations, (being saved and expecting his return) or the old testament laws and ordinances. Time is precious. Not everyone in the world has books and bibles or internets or has ever heard of evangelical preachers. God has that in mind.

reply to post by The Stand

That isnt God speaking, it is Pharoah, he is ordering a decree to kill all the baby boys which God helped to save Moses who at that time was to be killed, Moses grew up to be a great prophet. God does not tell people what to do he loves each and every one of us Muslims, Buddists, ect. He tells us things we need to try and do so we can be more like him and to be saved by Jesus' blood and come to heaven. God is trying to save us all from a firey hell in which we all are condemned to unless we repent.

Originally posted by The Stand
After reading the bible and some other very interesting books, I have been contemplating that the bible may have been a plan to take over the world physically, mentally and spiritually. A lot of verses seem to imply harm to anybody who does not think like this god wants. Other verses I do not even want to think about because they make me sick as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

Hmmm! This one is good. Well not GOOD, but anyway.
What actually took place in a lot of what we read in the Bible (and keep in mind, I am only human, although I do personally know some quite divine people, so I am only giving my very well educated opinion on the matter) where there is this being that claims it is God in scripture, is actually not God at all, but I think they were either the Fallen Ones or negative beings of some kind, maybe even ETs who knows... but they came here on a power trip and wanted to control humans. It makes a lot of sense that they would have been the Fallen Ones, especially with that Bible verse, because the Fallen Ones apparently had/have quite a high sex drive. And let's face it: it's many a man's dream to pop a young virgin. Sadistic? Yes. But it's all part of the whole, all a part of the eternal duality. But God would NEVER condone such a thing, EVER. God is a very merciful and loving being, a very powerful being, and a very HONEST being. Oh, and by the way: God doesn't have anything against gay people either.

Without looking it up since it is Numbers I would assume it is in relation to Joshua's conquest of Palestine and saying in essence kill all the men and boys and make the women and girls slaves... A common practice in those times... The opening books of the Iliad involve similar events.

reply to post by ofhumandescent
I believe this vers says exactly what it says. There are a lot of weird things in the bible and who ever wants to take this book as "Gods Word" has to do his own mental gymnastics to twist and bend what is in this book to fit his own God. The Bible is more a history book from a certain region, concerning certain tribes of that region. The New Testament has nothing to do with the Old Testament. Those two books where glued together by some freaks back in history who wanted to give the whole thing their own preferred direction.

Originally posted by The Stand
After reading the bible and some other very interesting books, I have been contemplating that the bible may have been a plan to take over the world physically, mentally and spiritually. A lot of verses seem to imply harm to anybody who does not think like this god wants. Other verses I do not even want to think about because they make me sick as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

reply to post by iamnot
I will give my opinion on what I think happened, I read a little before and after this passage, and it seems to be referring to a trespass against GOD which resulted in a plague, and leads me to believe it was an STD of some sort, since the Woman who hadn't been with a man could kept alive, and then they had to clean and "purify" themselves as well as their belongings, also when I read the bible I try to keep in mind the time period in which these writers try and describe whats going on around them and what they see. And I have to say I can see the logic here, because if we today didn't posses the medicines to cure many things, There is no doubt in my mind that the government wouldn't step in to "purify" things.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
sadly people always belive somone aslong as their popular and they say god told them. Just like today Mormons, Christians, and Muslims all have their present day revelators who if they desired could convice millions of lost people to kill for them. It doesnt matter if it makes sense only "if it came from god". The only words important in the bible are the words of Jesus. All of old testament is retarded by now.

If you feel that the only important words are the words of Jesus... what if you begin considering that the words of Jesus point towards monotheism, as opposed to concepts of basic christian doctrines such as trinity, Jesus' divinity, salvation through belief/acceptance in christs sacrifice.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

From what I read it is discussing the capture of the Midianites. And as mentioned in those times these were common practices.
This is Moses (ENLIL) god Abraham influence///// Egyptians(ENKI) god influence

The Old Testament was religious dogma and civil law for one tribe of Man. If that tribe wants to believe that and be held to that standard, let them.

Christ taught a different doctrine than the old testament. I will summarise it for you.

God is within everyone. What you do to someone else, you do to God.
God is this entire existence (Which is why he is in everyone), so love this beautiful existence!

Love God and your neighbor as yourself.

The truth really is that simple.

No where did Christ say to judge anyone.
No where did Christ say to harm anyone.
No where did Christ say to condemn anyone.
No where did Christ say to do anything to anyone that you would not want done to yourself.

Love one another.

The Kingdom of Heaven is within you. Heaven is the world we live in IF everyone did what Christ commanded.

That is the truth and that is the simplicity of the truth. All else is lies spewed from the mouth of blasphemers.

With Love,

Your Brother

Ok, this is a perfect example of cherry picking verses with no context to slander someone. The issue is that most people are Biblically illiterate and have no idea who the Midianites were, however to someone who knows the context you've basically given a quote along the lines of: "At Bastogne, the Americans killed 100,000 Germans". Context can totally change the meaning of a passage. I know it's alot of reading, but I'm going to ask everyone to go back to chapter 22 of numbers and read from there.

It begins with the king of Moab observing the Israelites advancing from Egypt and they are stronger than his people so he wants to find a way to destroy them. So he gathers up the priests of Moab and Balaam, a prophet of the Midianites, to curse the Israelites so that they could be destroyed. YHWH speaks to Balaam in a dream and tells him not to accept the bribe and not to curse Israel. Balaam doesn't listen and gets on his donkey so that he can go to the Israelites and curse them. YHWH puts an angel in his path that at the time could only be seen by the donkey. The donkey stops moving and Balaam hits it three times, after which YHWH gives the donkey the power of speech and it says, "stop hitting me, I was trying to save your life" (paraphrase, obviously) at which time Balaam sees the Angel who is holding a sword and repents of his actions. Balak, king of the Midianites, goes to Balaam and presses the issue and orders Balaam to curse the Israelites. They go to three seperate locations and offer seven sacrifices after which Balaam is incapable of doing anything other than bless the Israelites, because YHWH was with them. After they realize this, they come to the conclusion that the only way to destroy the Israelites is to seperate them from YHWH. To do this they sent some Midianite women infected with plague to have sex with the Israelites and get them to sacrifice to idols. This plague killed tens of thousands of people. So, not only did they do what can only be compared to forcing AIDS victims to have sex with people you don't like, they separated them from YHWH so they died in very grievous sins. All of this was done so that the Israelites could be utterly destroyed.

Now concerning the ethics of the battle, the reason the women weren't spared is because they started the whole ordeal and likely had the plague, and the virgins were not given away for wives because they were most likely prepubescent. Also, the Israelites did not destroy all of the Medianites, based on the number of casualties and people involved. They only destroyed the sect of the Midianites directly involved along with Balaam.

If you actually read Numbers, you would have noticed the horrendous atrocity committed against the Israelites and how many times Balaam had the chance to repent and turn back. Heck, YHWH talked to him, sent an angel, and even made his donkey say "don't do it, Balaam!". That's pretty damn generous and he tried to destroy the Israelites anyway!

For more info on this refer to your Bible and an intelligent apologist: christianthinktank.com...

reply to post by CarlitosAmsel


We have a friend that is a world renowned archaeologist / ex priest.

The Bible has many books left out of it. The King James version was rewritten by a sadistic homosexual (research King James) and the much of the "Bible" has been so twisted and so misintepreted it's not even the same animal.

However, In my humble opinion, ALL religions were invented to control and manipulate humanity. To keep the hairless thinking apes in line.

The question you should be asking is by whom?

Most people that discuss stuff on most boards are not well read (by that I mean 1-3 books per week, every single week for at least 30 years.

Watch TV, play with their xboxes, ipods and cell phones, read the newspapers and watch 2 hours of news that are nothing but mouth pieces for corporate media.

God - all of us are like drops of water and "God" is the ocean.

We live in a matrix of sorts and the majority of humanity is slumbering away.

Reason, I very seldom ever post on ATS anymore, there are way too many disinformation agents placed on this board to discredit and debunk what is really happening to our planet.

Peace.

Originally posted by The Stand
Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

Actually, you misquote the Bible. Not sure what version you are reading, but it’s wrong.

The King James version says:

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

And the context... Well the Devil's in the context. If you have read the Bible as you state then you will know the context.

It's all Old Testament though and largely irrelevant to modern Christianity which is based on the New Testament. It is more a historical narrative brought together from numerous sources, based on event which occurred over two and a half millennium ago when the world was different and warfare was rather more bloody.

Association with NWO (and all that) is just mischief, convenience and someone having a laugh. Why not use Genghis Khan as his time is better documented and surely he did try to create a NWO.

Regards

If people stop being frozen in Chapter Time and move on then they will reach the 10 Comandments, what ever happened in Numbers was something allocated to early man. Some older books were based on practices and certain positions like priests who had their own laws as would anyone in a certain postision today, a soldier can kill today but does not mean normal people can for example. But secondly the other most important thing is that I doubt these things really went that far amoungst them selves.

If people carry on with the Bible story new rules apply and here are some of them.

12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not kill/murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Which is very different to what Numbers says, the Bible is a progression and the later covenants follow Jesus means the gentiles are saved by faith and not by Law but it does not mean they too can do what they want because they are free to do so.

I haven't read through all the comments I don't have time so here goes my response. In order to understand why so much killing took place you need to learn about how the fallen angels had sex with women. Their motives were to contaminate the genetic pool to the point that Jesus could not be born. The offspring of the fallen angels are not allowed to enter into heaven or hell. They are the disembodied spirits that roam the earth and sometimes possess people. I did not believe this when I first heard it. I read the book of Enoch to get the back story on the fallen angels and learned more about genetics. The Merovingian bloodline is believed to be offspring of the fallen angels.

If you are seriously looking for answers you can u2u me and I will give you resources.

If you wrote this post just to take a swipe at christians, I don't have time for you.

By the way, most christians don't want to hear what I have to say either. It really takes them out of their comfort zone. I believe the mainstream church is deliberately keeping the truth away from the dumb sheep who don't think for themselves.

Have you ever noticed all the talk lately about dna and what they can do to enhance it? Curious about it?

Originally posted by The Stand
After reading the bible and some other very interesting books, I have been contemplating that the bible may have been a plan to take over the world physically, mentally and spiritually. A lot of verses seem to imply harm to anybody who does not think like this god wants. Other verses I do not even want to think about because they make me sick as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

The meaning seems plain enough. As God explained more than once, all the people then living in the land were so corrupted, that they had to go. To keep them from corrupting the people of His choice, His bride Israel, He commanded that some people, and in some cases their animals as well, be killed. Killing the men and the non-virgin females kept the bloodlines pure, if the virgins were taken as wives - the kids would still be Israelites. If God was/is sovereign, then He can do what He pleases with any of us. The wonder is that any are allowed to live, and I thank God for it.

I agree the context is crucial to the story. I would like to add something that I don't hear a lot discussed by Christians as to the character of God in the OT as opposed to the NT...it was understood by the early Christians like Paul and Peter that prior to the coming of Christ, commandments were given through the mediation of angels. an example of this is in the Book of Acts when Stephen is addressing the Jewish high priests:
“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.” (7:53)

Also it's clear that not all angels were good, even up to the time of Job (chapter one) where Satan is a member of God's council.

So when Jesus says in the NT 'I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.' (Luke 10:18) I think it would be safe to say that a change definitely did take place, not in God, but in our understanding of him. Paul wrote concerning the intermediary powers:
'See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. (Colossians 2:8-15)

Its widely overlooked but extremely important doctrine. Hope this helps
don't H8, peace

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by The Stand

 

The worlds religions were created and formed to control and manipulate mankind.

Read The Gods of Eden by William Bramley.

I have, and I agree with you. Religion is a Control Factor, any way you may look at it. It is also a cult, if you don't believe this, let's look at some definitions of the word, shall we?
Cult: noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.

Does this sound like YOUR (metaphoric analogy) religion, friend? Religion has caused more human, and animal deaths than anything else I can think of. All wars that America has been involved in, save for the War of Northern Aggression, was in fact a religious war. GWB even called the Iraq war a Crusade. My theory here is that the Annunaki Gods were the ones who created us, and religions, to make certain we did not overpopulate the Earth in short time. And in at least one way, they were right.

Originally posted by The Stand
“now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

that's the kind of leader they make tomahawks for. is there a guided missile destroyer off the shore's of heaven?