Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

reply to post by tgambill


Hey man you are the one making the claims without evidence here. You should learn to mind your hypocrisy.

Like I said earlier:

Well then it's not so simple. You are clinging on to a concept that you are convinced is true, that the bible is correct through and through, is perfect, inerrant and is the word of God.

The problem is that the scholarly consensus is that the bible is not those things, as I have demonstrated in regard to the authorship of the gospels.

The problem is the fact that you assert that the consensus is wrong and that you are right means that you are biased- even if the scholars behind the consensus are bias as well. There is no getting around the fact that you are biased, but what's more, you haven't provided any evidence that your biased opinion is right.

So until you can look at all the facts, weigh the evidence and draw unbiased conclusions, then you cannot know the truth.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by tgambill

so if i can point out in the bible jesus saying we should obey the old laws too this would mean that we should still stone kids and oxen?

or will you go swimming in denial again with the big crocodiles of idiocy and absurdity?

reply to post by noobfun


Yo.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by noobfun
reply to post by tgambill

 

so if i can point out in the bible jesus saying we should obey the old laws too this would mean that we should still stone kids and oxen?

Hi,

If you don't mind, I'd like to have you point it out. There's only two verses that I can think of that might apply.

Thanks

reply to post by badmedia


Thanx for this response, very thought provoking indeed the video is also great.

So as I type these words am I to consider the possibilty that there is only one of us in the room and I'm talking to myself?

Originally posted by The Stand
...as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

God did not say the above quote, so this whole point is moot. If you choose to not believe then do not, but do not stand in the way of those who choose to. I don't see why people cannot handle this. Now, i understand that some religious people come to find you, as in Jehovah's Witness, Mormons ect, but those are religions of man, not of the WORD, believe in the word not the man. Man is flesh GOD is Spirit there is a huge difference there. I believe that we all the right to believe or not believe as we see fit, i don't believe we have the right to force others into our viewpoints since truly not one soul that has ever lived and passed can attest what is and is not real. I do however appreciate everyone's opinion here. Thank you

Maybe I am not as educated as some of you but is there such a thing as a truly unbiased opinion? are not all opinions biased to those who harbor the opinion. I don't know of any such "neutrality". Even being "unbiased" would be a bias. Maybe someone can teach me as I am humble and always looking for clarifications of things. Thanks again everyone.

reply to post by Fletcher33


You are humble? Well your first post wasn't humble, making as much assumptions as you do.

Opinions are something everyone has. A claim is something different, and if that opinion is backed up by evidence and the facts then bias plays little part, unless you are spinning half truths.

As to the OP, he was asking how it could possibly be justified. There are many places where similar things are seen. But there are other times when God does the dirty, himself, like when killed all the eldest sons in egypt. That's just as bad.

But you make a good point. Don't trust man, trust God. Hate to break this to you but the bible is of man, it was written by man, which is why it has so many flaws. The only thing that can truly be of God on the hunt for unbiased truth is science.

[edit on 11/13/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 11/13/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by L.I.B.

ill give you a hint it involves hand washing ^_^

this and others i reserve the right to not pull out till he returns with his crocodile pals

Originally posted by L.I.B.

Originally posted by noobfun
reply to post by tgambill

 

so if i can point out in the bible jesus saying we should obey the old laws too this would mean that we should still stone kids and oxen?

Hi,

If you don't mind, I'd like to have you point it out. There's only two verses that I can think of that might apply.

Thanks

Are these the ones you were thinking of ?
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets." Jesus, Matthew 5:17

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17


I think these scriptures ar as plain as day and mean exactly what they say.

However if Jesus was god then he was perfectly entitled to change the laws, as he would have made them in the first place.

It is of great significance that jesus says "-------the law of the prophets "
and not "that I gave the prophets". Again it is as plain as the nose on your face, that what is said is what is meant.

Jesus did not have the authority to change the laws as they were not his, he is telling you right there in those words. To say this is misconstrude or out of context etc etc, is probably the height of stupidity.

This is a very intersting law ---
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood

It seems that yahwe is quite eternally emphatic about consuming blood, eternally so. The penalty for breaking this law is to be cut off from god no exceptions.
This law runs through the bible consistantly, (I've counted up to 50 times so far !) yahweh is quite clear about this law and it applies to ALL generations.

It is inconceivable that yahwe would (after he turned himself into Jesus) revoke or in anyway excuse the breach of this law.

It is obviously equally inconceivable that Jesus/Yahwe would instruct that his people should suddenly incorporate the pagan practice of seremonially eating human flesh and drinking blood.

This would all intents and purposes be like god instructing his creation to "pretend" to worship other gods on the sabbath, in order to remeber how great god is.


IMO if there is any one law that would never be revoked it is this, no christian practice could possibly more offencive to Yahwe than the Sacriment.

This religious practice of eating human flesh and drinking blood (if only pretend) has got to be the most anti semetic acts of all time.

I don't know where you got your spins but you really might want to research further.

He plainly says......

'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "And a second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." ( Matthew 22:37-40)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." ( John 13:34-35)

"Whatever you want others to do for you, do so for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." ( Matthew 7:12)

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men." ( Luke 6:35)

"Whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life a ransom for many." ( Mark 10:43-45)

"If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you." ( John 13:14-15)

The law, the commandments still stand and then because the scene changed by his birth, death and resurrection you have the new commandment.

The rest you wrote are spins and misinterpretations. They really are.
The Strong Delusion is coming; the strong delusion will be sent by God, and the strong delusion will be directed not only at those of the world that are lost in their sins, but specifically at all lukewarm, undecided, and corrupt Christians…

2Thesalonians 2:11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

2Thesalonians 2:12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Webster’s definition of “unrighteous”:
evil, guilty, immoral, unholy, unjust, sinful, unworthy, wicked

falsemessiahs.com...






reply to post by moocowman

Originally posted by Fletcher33
Maybe I am not as educated as some of you

Oi humble dude, don't feel all left out, I'm not educated either welcome to remedial class.

You don't have to have a huge swede to find contradiction and errors in the bible dude. It's very easy actually. You just have to start reading it not giving a crap whether it'll keep you (or your children to the 7th? generation) from being tortured for eternity.

Actually I would advise you read it as a fictional book untill you get saved or something, because it's quite repugnant and graphic all the way through.

Also if you're the type who wouldn't give Halo or Grand Theft Auto to your kids, then you certainly wouldn't want this laying around for them to become all traumatised and develope ADHD or something.

reply to post by noobfun


I am curious as to why you make it your goal to bash those who believe in GOD, why do you care if GOD and GODS followers choose to believe. If it is as stupid, and idiotic as you say it is then why be concerned of those who choose to believe. It seems to me that they are better things to fight over in this world, especially if you believe in no GOD or Creator of any type. I'm just curious??? And I would ask the same thing of those who believe and try to force others into believing. One thing that is certain is that no one, not one person living or dead can prove any of this. God is not proven, Evolution is not proven, science is often thought to be true or factual then later shown to be wrong (earth is flat, heliocentrism there is no absolute proof to any theory of how we all came to be here. If there is is an absolute answer I am not aware of it and would love to have one if there is. Respectfully.....

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Fletcher33]

reply to post by Jomina


I don't see how you guys can miss it...
God is and was and will be completely justified in these slayings.
They are of an infected blood line. They contained Fallen Angle blood, Annunaki blood, Fallen Seraphim blood. And before the flood these same hybrids nearly took over the world and were eating all the humans for food because of there sin against the land to the point where there apparently wasn't proper food supply anymore.. that or they Hybrids were eating humans for the heck of it.

This thread is a perfect example of how misguided and ignorant some of you are .. no offense.

If Moses and company had not obeyed God then Jesus would have never came and more than likely none of us at least this manifestation of our being would not have existed at all.

Please you guys stop acting like you met God and you're not able to pass judgment on ancient writings that are beyond your level of comprehension.

If you humble yourself and see that this whole website actually confirms the faith. This site hi-lites the Good vs. Evil all the time.

It all boils down to that.

You people actually believe that we just popped into existence?
Our creator is the Jehovah of the Holy Bible he as inserted proof in that very text that you all overlook because you won't commit to study without bias. He placed prophecy in there to prove it's been written outside of time. Many many things to much to list now.

It baffles me how some of you think your deep. ROFL
The bible is deep. How our creator loved us so much that he manifested in a human form so that we might be entangled with him so our bodies will not be guilty of anything that causes entropy anymore. It makes so much sense with and without science.

Look harder you guys. It's not on the surface it's much, much deeper than any of you think.

I suggest you look at the Bible again and anytime God commands to slay a bunch of folks check into it You will find that each and every time it was to stamp out this same blood line. Heck the ENTIRE bible is about this DNA WAR between God and the Fallen Angels..

All you conspiracy people are you really looking into the bible or could it be that your little fallen angel buddy that is controlling your life without your knowledge is putting thoughts in your head to hide you from the truth. That's the last thing they want you know.. They are soo pissed that humans get to have eternal life and fully creative at the same time. They are super pissed so they said .. lets become fully man and fully angel and then God will have to accept us.. bla bla bla.. get it yet?

I'm just so done trying to show you guys this for a minute.
SIGH

Is Free Will free?

Free will to me would be to choose without any ramification or negative result. If I could say choose to skip this world and go straight to Heaven or whatever eternal happy place we go and the have the free "will" to do this then I might have an easier time swallowing this idea. Free will as a biblical term is in no way free as you are told unequivocally that if you choose to not know GOD you burn eternally in hell, if you choose GOD you live life eternally, how is this a free choice? If I don't believe in GOD can I go to a hell GOD has created? Or is hell everyplace where GOD is not? Free will cannot be free when your choice is deemed right or wrong in the present. Any bodies thoughts on this will be appreciated as I have no set idea of this concept. Thanks all!!

[edit on 13-11-2008 by Fletcher33]

reply to post by Good Wolf


I can only speak to that which i have personally encountered or have experience with so if i come off assumptive that is me saying what it is I am aware of to date.

Would the hunt for truth by way of science be against GOD as it seeks things tangible rather than non tangible like spirit and faith? Just because I'm human and have made assumptions does not make me less than humble, I don't know these things therefore I ask. My question was whither an "opinion" can be unbiased, not a fact or something that has already been proven. If I were not a humble person looking for your and others viewpoints I would not ask. But I do appreciate your knowledge and sharing.

Originally posted by tgambill
I don't know where you got your spins but you really might want to research further.

He plainly says......

'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "And a second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." ( Matthew 22:37-40)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." ( John 13:34-35)

"Whatever you want others to do for you, do so for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." ( Matthew 7:12)

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men." ( Luke 6:35)

"Whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give His life a ransom for many." ( Mark 10:43-45)

"If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you." ( John 13:14-15)

The law, the commandments still stand and then because the scene changed by his birth, death and resurrection you have the new commandment.

The rest you wrote are spins and misinterpretations. They really are.
The Strong Delusion is coming; the strong delusion will be sent by God, and the strong delusion will be directed not only at those of the world that are lost in their sins, but specifically at all lukewarm, undecided, and corrupt Christians…

2Thesalonians 2:11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

2Thesalonians 2:12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Webster’s definition of “unrighteous”:
evil, guilty, immoral, unholy, unjust, sinful, unworthy, wicked

falsemessiahs.com...






reply to post by moocowman

 

Spins I got from the bible dude perhaps you've missed what I quoted, or perhaps you didn't see what I quoted as you don't seem to have addresed my comments/points.


Yes you have quoted some scripture I notice, however they don't seem to be responding to my post.

You have quoted 9 scriptures but not one of them deal with the problem that I presented to you. You have not dealt with the problem at all to be honest.

For some reason you quote a dictionary presenting the definition of righteous, which is clearly not addressing my post is it.

Perhaps I should have presented my points one at a time, being a self confessed uneducated one on this board, I really didn't think my post was too much for you to consider at one time.

I'll start again a little more slowly and try to keep it like bullet points.

1 You claim Jesus changed things for christians ie the laws he himself GOD created and gave to moses and the prophets.

This contradicts his OWN assertion ---

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17

can you explain in your opinion this clear contradiction in what you believe and what Jesus said ?

there you go that was easy wasn't it ?

reply to post by moocowman


Is what your saying here to mean that Jesus did not change any laws and that it would be easier to wipe out Heaven and Earth than to change the laws that were previously "on the books" like the laws of the OT that we would perform today?? Very interesting indeed.

reply to post by moocowman

Are these the ones you were thinking of ?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets." Jesus, Matthew 5:17

It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17 I think these scriptures ar as plain as day and mean exactly what they say.

One of them were. The one that was only partially quoted, i.e. Matthew 5:17, which in my reference reads: Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

He as a Jew would be required to fulfill them. Gentiles never were and still aren't required to fulfill the 613 Mosaic Laws despite what people say about Jesus changing the Law's requirements. Gentiles were and still are under the Noahide Covenant, with it's 7 laws.

If you are unfamiliar with this Noahide covenant, here's a fairly good read on it: jdstone.org...

However if Jesus was god then he was perfectly entitled to change the laws, as he would have made them in the first place.

It is of great significance that jesus says "-------the law of the prophets " and not "that I gave the prophets".

Again it is as plain as the nose on your face, that what is said is what is meant.

Jesus did not have the authority to change the laws as they were not his, he is telling you right there in those words.

To say this is misconstrude or out of context etc etc, is probably the height of stupidity.

If you are trying to convince me that Jesus is not God, don't worry about it. I could probably give you lots of other verses as well as several two plus twos that don't add up to make him God.

This is a very intersting law ---
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood

This law runs through the bible consistantly, (I've counted up to 50 times so far !) yahweh is quite clear about this law and it applies to ALL generations.

It is inconceivable that yahwe would (after he turned himself into Jesus) revoke or in anyway excuse the breach of this law.

It is obviously equally inconceivable that Jesus/Yahwe would instruct that his people should suddenly incorporate the pagan practice of seremonially eating human flesh and drinking blood.

This would all intents and purposes be like god instructing his creation to "pretend" to worship other gods on the sabbath, in order to remeber how great god is.

IMO if there is any one law that would never be revoked it is this, no christian practice could possibly more offencive to Yahwe than the Sacriment.

This religious practice of eating human flesh and drinking blood (if only pretend) has got to be the most anti semetic acts of all time.

Yes, that is quite an interesting law, with it's repercussions and associations with pagan practices. Thank you for speaking about it.

No wonder then that many turned away from Jesus during his ministry with this preaching. There is, however, the symbolic meaning of this "barbaric" inducing vision, which those whom stayed as Jesus' disciple understood.

Originally posted by Fletcher33
I am curious as to why you make it your goal to bash those who believe in GOD, why do you care if GOD and GODS followers choose to believe. If it is as stupid, and idiotic as you say it is then why be concerned of those who choose to believe. It seems to me that they are better things to fight over in this world, especially if you believe in no GOD or Creator of any type. I'm just curious???

its fun and i enjoy the company around here

what can i say i laugh at the afflicted im an evil person and as a god fearing atheist i should know better

Fletcher if you had read my earlier reply to spikey you would know why

One thing that is certain is that no one, not one person living or dead can prove any of this. God is not proven,

then why beleive in god and not fairies or santa or pixies or the ever famous and popular flying spahegetti monster and teapot

Evolution is not proven,

yes it is

science is often thought to be true or factual then later shown to be wrong

it admits and corrects its failings its due process only bieng mostly right is better then 2000 years of wrong

(earth is flat

no it isnt sceince and math proved its round long before jesus started running around

heliocentrism

science proved this wrong too and people got persecuted for it

there is no absolute proof to any theory

for it to be a theory its already proven

of how we all came to be here.

so why believe the magicalas a valid explanation?

If there is is an absolute answer I am not aware

you dont know isnt a defence science is working on it and re-evaluating old evidence shows we may be very close

of it and would love to have one if there is.

stick around science is good at solving stuff its the only thing it does



[edit on 13-11-2008 by Fletcher33]