Congress Plans to Confiscate Savings

reply to post by TruthTellist


The pictures you posted are classic examples of right wing propaganda and to be honest we both know that they add nothing valuable to the discussion. Is it really so hard for you to state your opinion in CLEAR words?

Can anyone point me to a second article that can confirm the OP, Before i continue, I want to at least know that I'm debating something factual. The article was posted quite a few days ago and I can't find a second source to verify this.

Is this article even true?!

Originally posted by IceColdPro


Is this article even true?!

Exactly my point in my earlier post. I have an extremely difficult time believing this article, especially since I haven't seen or heard the story anywhere else. "Carolina Journal?" Never heard of them.

Sorry. I'm just not quite that gullible.

reply to post by Polarbear6

Finally, I read somewhere that wealthy people accumulate expensive things. Not just to enjoy them, but because it's a convenient way to store money for later.

That's something a lot of people don't understand. When you walk through someone's home and see tons of rugs, paintings, and furniture that seem absolutely silly to you because of their cost versus their practicality, you are looking at someone's savings account. All those things are not there just to be admired, they are there because they have stable value.

I like your ideas about using less extravagant means to do the same thing. Nut and fruit trees make a good once-a-year profit, and I would suggest herb gardens as well as vegetable gardens. Chickens, if you live in an area outside of town, are a great source of meat and eggs, and both can be traded as well as used. The same thing goes for a well-stocked fish pond.

Guns will go up in value if they are banned, but you also have to worry about getting caught with them. Gold (including coins minted after 1933) can already be confiscated under the Patriot Act by simple Executive Order. I just learned that about a week ago form one of the "Hey! Wanna buy some gold?" guys that call every so often (I wrote down the page number of the section of the Patriot Act that covers this, if anyone wants to look it up for themselves). I'd say something like gunpowder and bullet stocks along with a reloader would be a good way to keep/produce for sale ammo if a true depression hits.

A few good tools as well will yield a living should things collapse. A welder with plenty of wire will become a booming business when people can't replace broken parts and instead have to have them repaired. As are woodworking and metalworking tools. With the latter, you can even make guns from scratch, and they can't be confiscated until they are made.

The best investment (notwithstanding the housing bubble) is land... undeveloped, unimproved land. That way you can have room to do the things I mentioned. Just don't go into debt for it, or you could lose everything.

TheRedneck

reply to post by IceColdPro

According to the article, this is not yet being considered as a law in the public arena. In other words, it's not happening yet.

The danger that it could is real enough, and therefore we need to keep vigilent to assure it doesn't happen. Patience, young grasshopper...

TheRedneck

reply to post by SevenThunders


You must not have read the article.


1. Democrats had hearings to hear different proposals on how to deal with the shrinking 401(k) retirement funds.
2. One of the people brought in, an economist, said they should take the savings and convert it.
3. A democrat stated "We are looking at all options to protect the citizens retirement funds".


This makes the title a misrepresentation. Congress is *not* planning on confiscating savings. One of the many people that spoke at the hearing propsed this.

Wow... people get riled up alot over nonsense.

They're not even talking about taking away 401(k)'s the proposal was to end the tax breaks.

And in all actuality what she proposed was ending tax breaks for 401k's. www.workforce.com...

At that hearing, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, Peter Orszag, testified that some $2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost over the past 15 months.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.

“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401(k)s,” Ghilarducci said in an interview. “401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”

Under the current 401(k) system, investors are charged relatively high retail fees, Ghilarducci said.

“I want to spend our nation’s dollar for retirement security better. Everybody would now be covered” if the plan were adopted, Ghilarducci said.

So where's the part where they confiscate our 401k, cause what I read there says "401(k)s can continue to exist, but they won't have the benefit" of tax breaks.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


No doubt. The worst part it he word "confiscate". That means forcefully taken.

Even the craziest of conservative talk show hosts (besides Limbaugh) don't use the word confiscate. The only thing I heard was that they are offering a new plan and people will have the CHOICE of trading their 401k for the new plan. If they choose to do so, they would be rewarded by being paid for the 401k BEFORE THE CREDIT CRUNCH.

Pfft. Some confiscation.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by IceColdPro

According to the article, this is not yet being considered as a law in the public arena. In other words, it's not happening yet.

The danger that it could is real enough, and therefore we need to keep vigilent to assure it doesn't happen. Patience, young grasshopper...

TheRedneck

This article holds NO water at all, with a bit more research into this I have come to suspect that the article could be entirely fabricated.

It's scary really, to think that there are people out there that allow themselves to be provoked and programmed by articles that are from sources that aren't even credible. This means that I could theoretically make a news website and publish anything I wanted in order to get people to think however I wanted them to. This allows the media to shape opinions into their own and this is potentially very dangerous.

Originally posted by ClintK

Originally posted by IceColdPro


Is this article even true?!

Exactly my point in my earlier post. I have an extremely difficult time believing this article, especially since I haven't seen or heard the story anywhere else. "Carolina Journal?" Never heard of them.

Sorry. I'm just not quite that gullible.

Tell me about it, I am getting weary of "denying" this type of ignorance.

I have asked this very question 3 times at least, with NOT 1 decent response.

1st here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

2nd time here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Most recent time: www.abovetopsecret.com...

This thread is full of off topic garbage, and the OP's article is a TOTAL fabrication.

reply to post by IceColdPro

This means that I could theoretically make a news website and publish anything I wanted in order to get people to think however I wanted them to. This allows the media to shape opinions into their own and this is potentially very dangerous.

DING! DING! DING!

Jim, we have a winner! Tell him what he has won?

By all means, Bob. IceColdPro, you have won the greatest prize of all: a trip to the beautiful but mostly deserted island of reality! You'll enjoy a lifetime of realization into just how easily humans can be manipulated, and, should you decide to explore this wondrous retreat, realization of just where we are headed! All for you, IceColdPro, for playing along with us on Name That Conspiracy!

All taxes and insurance are the responsibility of the winner, and the winner authorizes his or her name and likeness to be forwarded to whichever governmental spy agency is in effect. Re-education will be mandatory upon returning from your destination. All immunizations and passport requirements are the sole responsibility of the winner.

TheRedneck

Please, can we stop with the namecalling? By this, I mean labelling anyone and everyone who supports the state having control over capitalism as "communist" or "socialist". I don't really agree with their decisions in the first place, but Obama's no communist or socialist! Communism was that the workers owned the means of production. That is, they were their own boss, they get the profit of their own work, &c. It's important to remember that Karl Marx didn't invent communism, by the way, and I don't agree with his interpretation of it entirely. (I do agree somewhat, but there's a few bits that I think are silly, like how he seems to refuse constructive criticism and calls anyone who disagrees with him stupid.) That, coupled with the fact that the Soviet Union's ideology was an interpretation of Marx's interpretation, some distortion in what communism supposedly is can be expected. What the various communistic states did wrong is that they forced communism on people - and communism will not work if you force people to do it. No, each job in the community has to be done with the benefit of the community in mind, not profit. IF your objective is profit, then one can expect that you will exploit, lie, cheat, and cut corners to earn that extra penny.

The US is still capitalistic, as the means of production is held in the hands of the elite few. You can't say that the government controlling the corporations (except it's sort of the other way around, lolwhut) can be counted as the people owning it, since the People are fairly disconnected with the government - that is, what the government says and does is NOT the vox populi. THEREFORE, we're still capitalists. State-controlled capitalists, but capitalists nonetheless.

Aaaand, no, Obama, that's a really stupid thing to do. Please don't do it.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by IceColdPro

This means that I could theoretically make a news website and publish anything I wanted in order to get people to think however I wanted them to. This allows the media to shape opinions into their own and this is potentially very dangerous.

DING! DING! DING!

Jim, we have a winner! Tell him what he has won?

By all means, Bob. IceColdPro, you have won the greatest prize of all: a trip to the beautiful but mostly deserted island of reality! You'll enjoy a lifetime of realization into just how easily humans can be manipulated, and, should you decide to explore this wondrous retreat, realization of just where we are headed! All for you, IceColdPro, for playing along with us on Name That Conspiracy!

All taxes and insurance are the responsibility of the winner, and the winner authorizes his or her name and likeness to be forwarded to whichever governmental spy agency is in effect. Re-education will be mandatory upon returning from your destination. All immunizations and passport requirements are the sole responsibility of the winner.

TheRedneck

I found the tone of your response rather condescending. I thought my post warranted more than a silly "game show" sketch.

In my last post I was referring to what you said previously, *sigh* I quote again:

Originally posted by TheRedneck
The danger that it could is real enough, and therefore we need to keep vigilent to assure it doesn't happen. Patience, young grasshopper...

TheRedneck

In other words, you've declared that "faux" online news articles (dressed up blogs) make you react in a more vigilant manner, even though it is based on NOTHING factual. Therefore I was pointing out that YOU were an example of the clear effect propaganda has on the masses.

You stated that you are now going to be more vigilant due to a phony article talking about something that you ADMIT hasn't happened or is planned to happen.

I hope you see the point I am making this time.

reply to post by IceColdPro

I could have just said "I agree", I suppose. But what you said in your previous post struck such a nerve of agreement with me I thought a simple two-word response was inadequate.

While this article quite probably isn't indicative of pending legislation, I do believe that such an attempt is very possible. Governments from the Federal to the states to the local towns across America are trying new ways to manage to eek a few more hard-earned dollars from their constituents. The country is broke and deeply in debt, and no one is willing to give up a dime of their lavish spending spree. That money will come from somewhere, be it a taxation scheme or an economic collapse. I doubt that those who profit so greatly from the American economy will allow it to collapse without a fight, and thus I find it hard to dismiss any rumor of new taxation.

My apologies for offending you. Please forgive me. I hope you find your missing sense of humor.

TheRedneck

This pisses me off. It will NOT happen.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I've been following this somewhat for a couple of weeks. Read more carefully what the dem.s have been saying. They are in favor of altering 401ks and IRA tax breaks. The proposal appears to have been received favorably.

This is what a democrat mandate gives us, a hard veer to the left and a plunge into marxism. I had hoped some common sense or even basic American values would prevail, but I was wrong.

There are plenty of other references to this
Dems to kill 401k

online.wsj.com...

and so forth. I think it's only going to get worse.

You could benefit from some socialization. Don't completely write it off.

One needs only to watch Micheal Moore's 'Sicko' to realize that American's would all fare better with a socialized heath system at the very least. Having a few socialized systems doesn't make you a communist and it doesn't mean everything else needs to be socialized.

Don't believe the bunk of the extreme right wingers who are only trying to frighten you with propaganda, steal your money and send you bankrupt should you get sick. The only people benefiting from your current Health system are the Pharmaceutical Companies and money grubbing Corporations. Make no mistake about it!

However, I don't think you guys need complete socialization. That's taking things a bit too far.

IRM

yea.. I post this very subject last week..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by SevenThunders

Congress to US citizens: Give me your money or else

gosh, who could have seen this coming?

oh yeah, all the conservative americans who couldnt get a word in edgewise around all the kool-aid drinkers worshipping their inexperienced, un-accomplished messiah.

dont blame me, i voted for mccain.

we havent seen anything yet. i'm moving all my money offshore.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
You could benefit from some socialization. Don't completely write it off.

One needs only to watch Micheal Moore's 'Sicko' to realize that American's would all fare better with a socialized heath system at the very least. Having a few socialized systems doesn't make you a communist and it doesn't mean everything else needs to be socialized.

more dependency on the government isnt the answer... never has been.

everyone would benefit from free bmw's given away by the government, too.

the more socialism = the more americans are enslaved by their own government.

canada doctors have lotteries to see which patients they can keep seeing.

the uk is pondering euthanasia for elderly patients with expensive chronic disease.

they all come to the states for any real medical care.

care to point out an instance of successful socialism?

Sorry, but Obama is a Socialist. Look at his background and look who his friends are and look at his ideas.

As for Socialized Medicine-It's a joke. If Canada has such great medical care, why do so many of them come to the US for medical care? In fact, they seem to come to the US for just about everything from groceries to vacations.

I was in the Army, which I consider to be the best example of Socialism on the face of the Earth. Based on some of the idiots who get ahead in the military, I believe the dictum should read "From each regardless of his ability to each according to his needs." In the Army I learned not to trust or rely on their medical care.

One thing I was shocked to learn was military doctors aren't required to meet the US certification requirements to practice.
Since military patients have no rights in the system, they wait a lot for second-rate care. Many health problems are ignored until they are too late and effective care is often unavailable. My dad is a retired neurosurgeon, so I was able to get a lot of good first and second opinions.

The scary part of Socialized Medicine is they always want to take away your right to choose. Remember Hillary Scare? The military is the same way. You are not permitted to go outside their care either, even though their medical care is routinely inadequate and even dangerous to the patient.

I knew one guy who never received proper treatment for his serious back injury and spent 3 years on IET status popping anti-psychotic meds and visiting a massage therapist instead of receiving an MRI and competent care.

I knew another guy who spent a year complaining of shortness of breath before finally being diagnosed with a tumor in his chest.

I knew a girl who had endometriosis and received a spinal tap she claimed they never closed up, leading to nauseau and dizziness for two weeks before they decided to check her back.

I knew another guy who received a permanent loss of his full range of movement in his right arm because they refused to believe he had an injury. That's a common one. They assume patients are malingering instead of treating them.

That's just off the top of my head. I've met lots of guys who received second rate health care in the military. I can only imagine a nation-wide system of government-controlled medical care would be exactly the same. You lose your right to choose and you lose control of your health.

All you need to do is look at the school lunch system, the post office, the public school system, the military medical care system, the war on terror, the military procurement and contracting system, social security, and our government-controlled economy to see just how effective and reliable our government is.

Enjoy-Polarbear